TF443- Irwin Lower & Engine Combo

[topfuel443]

Waterbug,
According to a thread in the recent past, what TF443 is doing for his lube is not legal.  He has added material to the outside of the assembly which is against IMPBA rules.  At least that's what I got out from the discussion.  :blink:

Thanks for the inputs,

Snowdog

the luber It is supossedly not legal for B SPORT tunnel. But then again, neither is the entire lower foot.

It is completely legal for mod classes....

~James

 

[waterbug]

 

Snowdog

 

I think that is in stock class....

 

I do think that if you use a bottle with a nipple and stick it in the propshaft hole and force the lube up from the bottom , that this will eliminate the air and fill the tube full to the top... Then just put your thumb over the small hole and lift the rear of the boat up as to not let the lube out and install the propshaft... then top off the lube through the small hole....between rounds... I also deburred the top of the tubing with the handle end of a triangle file and used a dill bit to make sure the tube at the prop shaft was straight and centered.........

 

Lift : If you look at the side of the lower unit the cavitation plate goes up at the front where it attaches to the main body of the lower unit...

 

I think if the cavitation plate were straight and a tad thicker {stiffer} with a starting edge on it like the fin it would be perfect-O......

 

2112.......That is a album & song by " RUSH " Rock on....... :lol: :lol:

 

Just my 1/2 cent...........

 

[waterbug]

 

Oh.......And if you could find something small enough to countersink the upper end of the tube and housing or make the tube shorter with the above mod. it would stop the melting and any misalignment that may...I say my.... exist.....

 

 

 

[topfuel443]

Butch, I just fill the bottle with my lube before each run. there is a hole in the top of the plastic bottle that allows the oil to run through the foot and lube the shaft during the entire run....

~James

 

[waterbug]

 

Yes that would be excellent for the Mod's.... But for the Stock engine combo you will have to use a different procedure...

 

 

 

 

 

[topfuel443]

what stock engine COMBO?

~James

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

"So your synopsis of the melting issue was because the lube didn't completely fill the stuffing tube. The heat built up in the cavity of the PTO/flexshaft junction and wasn't able to be transferred away? Since you applied your "fix", it's fine now. Is that correct? "

Yes this has fixed the issue on my boat. the only clarification I would add is that the heat build up area I experiemnced was mid shaft not top or bottom. I lube from the top down every heat. I use 50/50 mix of atf and stp.

"Also, how much different is the Lawless OS cable you refer to from the regular Lawless cable? I want to use a cable that won't require any addition or subtraction of materials."

The lawless OS cable is the same as the OS cable in length. The lawless one lasts longer as it is stronger. I just cutt under an 1/8 off each end and it fits fine.

The entire stock motor combo is the one the Jim has been talking about. It's getting closer to being a reality, I am sure jim will keep you posted.

Brian

 

[waterbug]

Grimracer Posted Sep 13 2004 , 01:57 PM         Now one note about the lower.. The plastic that surronds the brass liner melted on me.. just at the top near the PTO.. Even with lube in the top the brass must have got hot enough to melt the plastic. The plastic mushroomed up and i was able to remove it by grabbing the plastic with a neddle nose pliers and break it off..
   Its possible but seems unlike that the alignment of the pto is weird regarding the shaft but im not sure..the brass is slightly egged out at the top?

My synopsis is that the shorter tube or countersinking the tube and housing would eliminate the egged out tube... I am just suggesting to Grim a "fix" to the egged out tube...and subsequent heat billed up at the top..

 

Now the cause of yours may evidently be trapped air, hence the drilling of the .060" hole... and problem solved........

 

With full size "Outboards" and "Inboards" with a foot type outdrive, you always fill from the bottom up..!!!!! to eliminate trapped air causing the same overheating....

 

And no I have not done a thing to mine, except the deburring of the top of the tube and the drill bit to check the center of the lower end tube....

 

And suggest that the above "fix" of Grimracers problem with possible...and agin I say " POSSIBLE " misalignment problem....after talking with Mr. James Irwin first....!!!!

 

Like he , it's possible but not likely..!!!

 

My synopsis of the lift problem that Grim had is, we all could use the lightening of the rear of ower tunnels, it would change the overall " AOA " and take a tad of weight off the front of ower boats and we all know that, that end result would be less weight means, less drag and more speed and also less likely to" BLOW OFF "....because of the more level "AOA"......also less subjunctive of head winds....

 

My synopsis of Mikes heat race loss is , egerness to run the new lower unit over testing first.... :lol: :lol: we all do it from time to time......

 

That's enough synopsisisum for one night...........

 

 

 

 

[/color]

 

[waterbug]

 

James

 

You ask what stock "OB COMBO" ???

 

 

The one that I will be using to whoop up on them KB's and OS's in Stock Tunnel !!!!

 

The Irwin OB of course.......as long as the cost is kept down !!!! way down from the OS that Tower Hobbies is asking for...!!!!!!! the price they want is outragous..... $350.00 + shipping

 

What in GOD's name are they thinking ???? They couldn't sell them at $250.00 thats why they dropped them before...they may have perfected the ABN process but!!

 

I can buy a mod engine for that and a Irwin lower....

 

 

[topfuel443]

The Irwin OB of course.......

I was under the inpression that it wouldnt be allowed in the stock class (when it ever comes out???) I thought that the ENTIRE unit had to come from the same manufacturer.... Isnt Jim getting the powerhead made by another manufacturer and then putting his name on them???

Jim, can you calrify this?

~James

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

James

in this case Jim is the manufacturer, most manufacturers use parts made out side of thier company. So having a power head made here and a lower unit there is not an issue. As long as it is made to Irwins specificatings and he sells it as a complete unit.

K&B had all of there castings done outside there facility. They had machine shops make some parts for them. You would be hard pressed to find a company that makes ball bearings for there products in house. I hope this starts to clear up those issues of it not being legal. I know this issue will come up about it being legal.

Look in your rule book and read the section about stock class motors. Please let me know what you think it says. This could be a new thread discussion.

Have a great day

Brian Nelsen

 

[waterbug]

Delivery time is mid November.., so you could have one under your Christmas Tree...............OB's and IB's.......

 

James Irwin told me that the engine and pipe are being made in a country in the far east....I know , but he will have to say where....and that it is a masterpiece to rival the Italian engines.......and it is almost identical to one of them on the inside....but to his spec's

 

We all know about the lower unit and it's origin.........and I think Brian knows were the propshaft and cable are coming from.......and if you take all the tidbits that he has stated in the different forums they tell the story.....

 

Everthing has the Irwin name on it including the parts and #'s....As a mater of fact Grim in this forum told Irwin to make sure and put the #'s on them.........

 

My synopsis is some people don't like it but it is a complete engine combination and they have tried and done so.... in the past copied some of his pipes.......

 

James Irwin this time has crossed his T's and dotted his I's and has done so with the use of his lawyer.....

 

I have said too much now so I will hush.......... :huh:

 

James Irwin if I have said to much and over stepped my bounds, I apologize here on this public forum.......

 

 

Butch Jackson ...... the WaterBug from S.C.

 

 

 

 

h34r:

 

[topfuel443]

That makes perfect sense to me, I guess I just needed to have someone explain it like Brian did. Dont get me wrong here, I have been anticipating the new engine as much as anyone else! It would be nice to have another option for outboards, I just hope he was able to keep the manufacturing costs to a minimum in order to keep the retail sticker within an affordable range....

The reason I said what I did is because I was told by someone that the new engine combo would not be aloowed as a "stock" motor, thanks to Brian for the clarification.

~James

 

[waterbug]

 

James

 

I was in no way cracking on you buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I too have big expectations on the new engine combo..... I plan on 2 new stock tunnels of E/G & C/K and was informed by the wife that she and my little girl {13} wanted a tunnel and mono to run.......$$$$ I've got the WOF's and a D27.... & .12 rigger

 

I'm like OB Nut with Mary's boat , it better keep up with the others !!!!!!

 

I'm putting them in " Novice Class"......you think they will mind a 44 yr. old Disabled "Novice" with a walker or cane..?? she can fly a plane but boats are a different game... :lol:

 

I HAVE TO HAVE SPARE ENGINES AND LOTS OF PARTS........... :blink: **** NO MED's yet...... I have become one with this puter and forum.... :lol:

 

 

[snowdog-2112]

 

...... I have become one with this puter and forum.... :lol:

 

Butch,

Like you I too am enjoying my time back on this site. I went through withdrawals for those days the site was down. BTW, did Tom ever say what caused it?

Snowdog

 

[Grimracer]

Sorry guys.. Im not going to comment in depth on this until there is a motor in my hands.. I hope you are not thinking (motor in his hands..thats the 12 hour).. sure is and i hope that James has done his home work on this.

I will however say this. The motor and the Rules have been like passing ships in the night.

At this time there are no guidelines to submit a motor design to the IMPBA, that i know of. The rules are it, and there not written for this. When you think of it why should there be.. If i was a MFG of motors.. and my market was John Q.. i could care less what IMPBA had for rules. BUT if i was marketing to the RACING public..

Let me close with this.. I hope that this does not turn in to a pissin match.. i will pull the plug on this faster then Holmes unzipping his zipper.. this aint the place.. Fair warning..

Grim

 

[Bob Kensill]

I keep hearing the term "stock" being used in this thread. You guys must all be NAMBA members because there is no "stock" class in IMPBA. As for Mike saying that he will "pull the plug" on this thread,that sounds just like a politician speaking. If we are not allowed to voice our opinions,then this forum will end up like Marty's. As for the oiler issue,I will run an oiler on my Sport 21 next year unless there is a rule saying that I can't. As for the ststement about not adding material,that means that if your engine did not have a glowplug,prop,needle valve,steering arm or throttle attachment already installed,you can not use them. As mike interpretted the rule for me at the Nats,we should not be allowed to use any aftermarket props either.

Bob Kensill

Former IMPBA Outboard Director

 

[Slideblues]

The way I took it was there has been no pre production units sent to either NAMBA or IMPBA for approval before going into production,

So at 500 units each both IB and OB ( I believe this was Jims statement for numbers on the first production run)

He hopes they got it right the first time,

Correct me here if I am wrong,

Gene

 

[Grimracer]

I keep hearing the term "stock" being used in this thread. You guys must all be NAMBA members because there is no "stock" class in IMPBA. As for Mike saying that he will "pull the plug" on this thread,that sounds just like a politician speaking. If we are not allowed to voice our opinions,then this forum will end up like Marty's. As for the oiler issue,I will run an oiler on my Sport 21 next year unless there is a rule saying that I can't. As for the ststement about not adding material,that means that if your engine did not have a glowplug,prop,needle valve,steering arm or throttle attachment already installed,you can not use them. As mike interpretted the rule for me at the Nats,we should not be allowed to use any aftermarket props either.Bob Kensill

Former IMPBA Outboard Director

Alright Bob

You know I love a good debate.. I am after all a politician.

Lets talk. Why did I know that you were going to be the first to post regarding this?

What is the intent of the IMPBA sport tunnel class? Do you know.. If not, you should.. As you stated you are the former OBD.. Also, you might be surprised by the answer.. I know that the average racer would.. Also some of the racers on the board are NAMBA and have just as much right to this tread as the rest of us.. Welcome all NAMBA racers to I Waters.

For the purpose of the conversation lets call Jim Irwins motor a stock motor to be run in the stock class so that even the new guys to tunnel racing get it. It’s a play on word but you really know what we are talking about…Right?

Its not an opinion about the motor or racing that i would stop..

As for the oilier.. That is going to be a sore spot in your racing books until your death.. Sorry.. If you think you need an oilier on your boat to help the cable survive, why was it that i did not?. Did the motor that won have an oilier? Further more, what is the REAL reason cables break. Lack of oil... hardly.. Did the motor come with an oilier, was it intended to have an oilier bolted to it? If you have one bolted on the motor, boat or hanging free flopping around in the air next year you might likely get the same results…

Also i never said anything about props.. Did you read props in to it, steering arm and the like.. whew…

One more note: You know I like racing with you and your wife, you are a great competitors, you have years of racing knowledge to share and are fun to race with.. When I get beat by you, I know that I have been beat by the best.. I take my tail and tuck it under A@@ and try to learn from it.. and learn I do…

So please think positive when you read the above. I dont burn bridges.. life is to short. Stick with us to make boating stronger.. you have done this for years now so please continue.. thanks.

Mike

Waterbug did you get an adequate answer to your topic?

Grim

 

[garrett randall]

Mike (or anyone really),

To make it clear for everyone...especially us NonTunnelRacers (NTR), is there an 'approved' list of motors for either Namba's stock, or IMPBA's sport .21 class?

I honestly dont have a clue what motors are/aren't CURRENTLY legal...

If there are motors that need approval, that is a whole different discussion (which is where this thread started I believe...

Maybe we can start from the current approved list, and talk about what can/can't be done to them...for both namba and impba...

We certainly have gotten off topic, but maybe this needs to be revisited again. I know for fact there is a similar thread on this very same topic, probably others...and somewhere in that thread there was a comment made, for IMPBA sport class at least, that the motor must be 'stock appearing', am I mistaken?

Garrett "NTR" Randall