TF443- Irwin Lower & Engine Combo

[waterbug]

Hello James

I see were you have the Irwin lower to !!! What long KB cable is jim saying to use ?? I have a newer lower unit shaft kit {gold} And i see the up grade to the better prop shaft kit from Brian.

 

Anything else you can share ????

 

[topfuel443]

All I can tell you is I had to stuff some brass in my prop shaft to get the shaft long enough to reach both the pto and prop shaft.....and it barely does. I heard someone say they were using a cut down OS shaft (they are longer than K& B) in there and it worked fine. I have about 1.5 gallons on mine since i used the brass in the prop shaft with no problems whatsoever.

It can be kinda deceiving at first, it looks and feels like the shaft is long enough( I ran the entire internats with it) then all of a sudden it will start to slip, acting like the prop shaft is broken....only its not, its just SLIGHTLY to short.

~James

P.S. Ive had dozens of K&B cables lined up beside one another before and they are all slightly different lengths (atleast mine were) best to find the longest of the bunch and go from there.....unless you can find an OS cable. I gave you my last one of those...

P.P.S. The prop shaft kit from Brian is the Sh**, I havent seen the 3.5 kit yet but if its as good as the 7.5 it will be a huge hit. I have two on order this week when they come out. definately the way to go.

watch the temp on the motor with the new lower, I have experienced significantly higher temps with the unit as it no longer acts as a heat sink. Ive seen guys run with and without cooling and it seems to work fine, just be aware on the first few runs...

 

[Tunnelbill]

Hey James,

I just got my Irwin in the mail. I think the Lawless shaft will be the way to go, they are longer than a K&B shaft. I have not set it up yet because I want to know what holds the hinge pin in place??????? Im not going to mount a $750.00 NR on it and have the hinge pin work out the bottom on me. Please let me know whats up with this matter.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[MarkScott]

Bill,

My impression is that the pin can't make it out the bottom as there is a lip there to hold it in place.. But then again, I'm stuck at work and won't be home for another 7 hours.

Mark.

 

[Tunnelbill]

Hey Mark,

Sorry to hear you are at work. I have looked at mine and it looks like it is drilled all the way and I don't see any lip at all. Thanks Bill

 

[MarkScott]

hhhmmm, makes me wonder.. I'll have to take a closer look when I get home.

Mark...

 

[topfuel443]

Bill, mine has a small lip, and the pin is tight as hell. have you tried to push a pin in there yet? I dont think its gonna go anywhere.

~James

Thanks for the lawless suggestion, ive never owned one and figured they were the same length as the K&B.

 

[Slideblues]

Just measured the flex outta my SS, length was 4 5/8"

Gene

 

[MarkScott]

Home now.. Can't quite tell if mine has a lip or not. One is mounted and the other is boxed and ready for a trip to Europe

But I will agree with James, it was tight putting the pin in.. Doubt very much it'll fall out on it's own.

Mark..

 

[james irwin]

HI YALL , SORRY ABOUT NOT BEING HERE TO GET ALL THE QUESTIONS ANSERWD. OK #1 PIVOT PIN , TODATE WE OR NO ONE WE KNOW OF HAS HAD A PINDROP OUT , IT IS TIGHT AS HELL GOING IN .

#2 NO MATTER WHICH DRIVE CABLE YOU USE , YOU MAY NEED TO DO A LITTLE ADJUSTING TO GET IT RIGHT , WE HAVE FOUND ONLY THE CMB 21 HAS A SHORT PTO SHAFT, YOU WILL FIND IT TO ONLY PROTRUD APPROX, 3/16 BEYOUND THE MOUNTING PLATE, ROSSI K&B YOU WILL FIND THESE TO BE LONG ENOUGH .

HANG IN THERE , OURS WILL BE HERE SOON . #3 ENGINE HEAT , COME NOW , HOW MANY HAVE ACUALLY DONE DAMAGE TO AN EGINE BY RUNNING IT TOO HOT??????" THIS NEW MOTOR I AM COMING OUT WITH HAS AN AIR COOLED HEAD SO THAT WE CAN GET THE CRANKCASE TEMP. UP TO A NORMAL OPERATING TEMP. EVEN WITH THIS WE HAD TO CUT THE HEAD DOWN IN SIZE , AS THE TEMP WAS WAY TO COLD . I HAVE A NOVI ROSSI THAT HAS NEVER HAD A DROP OF WATER IN THE HEAD , GOD BLESS

 

[topfuel443]

all I know is I had my K&B come back in at 310 degrees(after it stopped with a dousing of water on the head) and the head was turning brown (no I didnt lean on it) .....Thats too hot . I opened up the cooling restriction and the temp is staying at a nice 240-260. My point is to keep an eye on the temp at first, believe me, its a GOOD thing this lower is NOT aluminum so we can actually get the temps up on the outboards where they should be.

The in is tight as hell going in, i dont think its gonna come out easily...

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

On my Irwin lower unit using a CMB green head I had to use a Lawless OS size cable cut down by 1/8 inch.

The hinge pin like Jim said will likely not fall out, and as he said non have to date. I ran my new lower unit at thenats and have over a gallon of fuel through the motor since it was installed.

Brian Nelsen

 

[snowdog-2112]

Has it been determined that the Lawless cable works well with this LU? I'm thinking of getting a couple from Precision Boats...do any other cables work well without issues? Suppliers?

Thanks,

Bryan

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

i use the OS Cable from lawless and cut it down about a just under an 1/8 inch on each end. I have had no issue with it to date.

We are in the process of getting the cables made. I will let you all know when a factory unit will be avaiable.

Brian

 

[Grimracer]

First runs with my Irwin lower

Rossi power head..

I like Topfuel had to place a small object (grub screw) in to the broached area of the stub shaft to make length.

Here is what i have found.. the lower unit (stock) makes more lift then say a 3.5 K+B foot. Cost me a heat at the district 4 champs..

The motor NEEDS water to it.. can you damage a motor by getting it to hot?... does a bear Sh#$ in the woods.. you best put water to the motor with this lower. First runs came in with the motor so hot.. (rich needle) that the PL took a hit..

Now one note about the lower.. The plastic that surrounds the brass liner melted on me.. just at the top near the PTO.. Even with lube in the top the brass must have got hot enough to melt the plastic. The plastic mushroomed up and i was able to remove it by grabbing the plastic with a needle nose pliers and breaking it off..

Its possible but seems unlike that the alignment of the pto is weird regarding the shaft but im not sure.. the brass is slightly egged out at the top?

Anyway for the time being Im not going to run it anymore until i have the right length cable and stock stub shaft for it.

One thing is for sure.. the darn thing is tough.. I like it..

Grim

 

[snowdog-2112]

Thanks for the info Mike. I'll keep an eye on that. BTW, what engine was on it that caused the mushrooming?

Snowdog

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

Mike

I am not sure about the lift issue, the engine heat issue is interesting. My CMB greenhead does not use water and comes in just a bit warm to the touch. 156 degrees on my temp gauge. Raced the boat at the Minnestoat state championship race and it was awesome. Ask squeaky about those passes I made on him . The engine did not run hot but was right there on the pipe and needle. This issue needs looking into. Any one else see this problem let me know.

I too had the plastic melt but on the side of the lower unit where one of the mold supports leaves a hole. This was due to lack of shaft lube, I drill a .060 hole down by the drive dog to allow the air to escape as the lube goes in. Worked perfectly this week end no more melting.

Getting water to your engine is easy just drill out the nub that it provided and install the OS water pick up.

These are my results to date.

Keep the cowl side up

Brian

P.S. missed ya this week end Mike

 

[waterbug]

Brian.......&.......Guys

 

I take it that everyone is using the small hole at the motor mount base to lube there shafts ?? with a syringe ....?? Or...from the bottom through the propshaft hole until it runs out the small top hole.....then installing the propshaft....and topping off between rounds through the small hole....

 

How long would you say the shaft need to be..?? 5"s....total length...4 7/8 ".... Brian I have the Mac/CMB short PTO....

 

Is the Lawless OS shaft longer than the regular OS shaft....??????? I don't know how long the lawless is..

 

 

 

[topfuel443]

Butch, this is what I use for lube..... works really well.

~James

 

[snowdog-2112]

Grimmy,

Please explain what you mean by the L/U making more lift.

Brian,

So your synopsis of the melting issue was because the lube didn't completely fill the stuffing tube. The heat built up in the cavity of the PTO/flexshaft junction and wasn't able to be transferred away? Since you applied your "fix", it's fine now. Is that correct? :unsure:

Also, how much different is the Lawless OS cable you refer to from the regular Lawless cable? I want to use a cable that won't require any addition or subtraction of materials.

Waterbug,

According to a thread in the recent past, what TF443 is doing for his lube is not legal. He has added material to the outside of the assembly which is against IMPBA rules. At least that's what I got out from the discussion. :blink:

Thanks for the inputs,

Snowdog