TF443- Irwin Lower & Engine Combo

[james irwin]

HEY GRIMM : THAT WAS NOT INTENDED TO P=== ANY ONE OFF BY ANY MEANS . I WAS JUST STATING A TRUE FACT ( I DO THINK WE TEND TO GET LOST IN A BIG SHUFFLE OF LIFE AND REALLY FORGET WHY WE ARE HERE ? TO HAVE A LITTLE FUN WHILE WE CAN ) SOME ONE STATED THAT THE MOTOR WOULD NOT BE EXCEPTED FOR THE STK CLASS BY ITSELF ??? WE KNOW THAT , BUT YOU MUST START SOMWHERE / I STRATED WITH THE LOWER AND PASSED A LOT OF THEM OUT AT THE NATS JUST TO SEE IF I OR RICH HAD OVERLOOKED ANYTHING , TESTING ONLY . THEN I GOT HEAVY ON THE MOTORS AND PIPE . NOW I AM PROUD TO SAY THE ONLY PROBLEMS SO FAR WITHE LOWER HAS BEEN OPERATOR ERROR, I SHOULD HAVE A PRODUCTION MOTOR IN HERE NEXT WEEK FOR EVAULUATION AND TESTING , I AM SO DANG HAPY OVER THIS I COULD ALMOST PEE MY PANTS . I HAVE WANTED TO DO THIS FOR ABOUT 40 YRS AND NEVER HAD THE BA--S OR THE MONEY AND KNOW HOW . THANKS TO THESE DAMMED COMPUTERS ( WHICH I STILL HATE ) IT WILL BECOME A REALLITY NOW . SO . AS I SAID BEFORE . LIKE IT OR NOT , NEXT TIME YOU SEE A MFG . GIVE HIM A HUG AND TELL HIM WHAT A GREAT JOB HE IS DOING , OK ?? NUFF SAID . I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN THE MOTORS ARE READY , TALK TO SANTA , HE MAY BE REALL NICE TO YA THIS YR. GOD BLESS

 

[james irwin]

HEY GRIMM : I AM SORRY BUT THOUGHT YOU SAW THE MOTOR AT THE NATS ?? ITS THE ONE THE GENTELMAN FROM FUTABA WAS PRACTICING WITH . HE AND I QOUT , SAID IT WAS TOO MUCH MOTOR FOR HIM AND DID NOT FEAL RIGHT ABOUT RUNNING IT AT A NATL LEVEL AND MABY CREATING A PROBLEM AND KNOCKING SOME ONE OUT OF CONTETION , I THOUGHT WAS PRETTY ADMIRAL OF HIM TO ADMITT IT , SINCE WE HAD HIM ENTERED IN THE MOD CLASS

 

[waterbug]

 

Mike ...Jim

 

If I caused any hard feelings or trouble with my posting, it was not the intent, it was to straighten out a problem............ I will take the blame if there is any hard feelings but I don't think there is a problem is there ????

 

We all want to see the engine do good ............

 

 

Butch the trouble making Bug

 

[james irwin]

HEY JAMES , YOU ARE ABSOLUTLY RIGHT . THE ONLY THING YOU LEFT OFF , IS THE ASEMBLY OF THE THREE PIECES WILL TAKE PLACE IN MY SHOP . JUST AS WE DID AT K&B MOTOR / LOWER UNIT / PIPE . REALLY I DONT SEE WHAT DIFFERANCE IT WOULD MAKE ? EITHER YOU WANT ONE OR YOU DO NOT ? STK CLASS THAT IS , IT WILL ALWAYS FIT IN THE MOD CLASS . WHERE ELSE YOU GOING TO GET WHAT I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU FOR THE PRICE I CAN ???

THINK ABOUT THAT ONE , REMOTE NEEDLE / SPCL RACING HEAD / CUT AWAY PISTON MATCHING SLEEVE WITH EXTREMLY BIG PORTS / TUBO CRANK , FRONT AND REAR OF CRANK , SPCL BEARINGS , GOOD NUMBERS ON THE SLEEVE AND CRANK ( RACING ) NOT A CUT FOR AIR PLANES , NOW HERE IS WHERE U MAY DIFFER WITH LOT PEOPLE, I WILL ( ON THE OUTBOARD VERSION ) GAURENTEE THE BACK PLATE NOT TO HAVE ANY LEAKS EVER . YOU SAY HOW ?? HE HE WAIT AND SEE ON THIS ONE .ALSO THERE WILL BE A CLIPP ON THE BOTOOM SIDE OF THE PTO SHAFT TO REMOVE ALL PLAY SO THE PTO DOES NOT BIND THE CONNETING ROD. OH OH SHOUD NOT HAVE TOLD ABOUT THAT ONE ? NOW EVERY ONE WILL BE CHKING THERS . YES THIS CAN BE A MJOR RPM REDUCER. NUFF SAID GOD BLESS YES FOR UNDER $300.00 ret. B)

 

[james irwin]

HEY YA OL SANDLAPER ; WATERBUG THAT IS . NOPE , I AM NOT PI--ED AT YOU OR ANY ONE ? AS YOU ALL KNOW BY NOW . IF YOU RUN / PLAY/ RACE TOY BOATS THEN YOU ARE MY FRIEND , FRIENDS ARE HARD TO FIND , MY OL GRAND PAPPY USED TO SAY , YOU CANNOT HAVE TO MANY FRIENDS JIM ?? MAN WAS HE EVER RIGHT . NO I LOVE A GOOD DEBATE , IT WAS MY FAULT FOR NOT KEEPING EVERY ONE ABREAST ( LOVE THAT WORD BREAST ) HE HE OOPS . NOW NOW JIM , OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH EVERYTHING HERE AT THE OL SHOP , WELL READ THE ABOVE . I THINK I HAVE TOLD YOU ALL I NOW KNOW , I AM PUSHING THE MOTOR CO, TRYING TO HAVE MOTORS HERE BEFORE DEC 15 TH . KINDA LOOKS LIKE WE MAY DO IT . IF I CAN KEEP MY BUTT OUT OF THE HOSP LONG ENOUGH I MAY GET IT DONE. DAMMED ARTHER AND A BACK THATS GETTING THE BEST OF ME . THANKS EVERYONE FOR LETTING SAY MY PIECE , I DO FEEL BETTER NOW. HE HE GOD BLESS

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

Mike

I am just wondering where you get the 100 units sold from.

The rule states "Engines must be standard factory production with a minimum of 100 units available for sale to the general public. To be eligible for the International Regatta the engines must have been offered for sale to the general public not less than ninety (90) days prior to that year's International Regatta."

The word used is available not sold. So 100 units sitting on a shelf is fine. At least in my opinion.

Or am I reading the rule incorrectly? I have been wrong before.

Thanks for your input

Brian

 

[Grimracer]

Brian

First when i send you an e mail please respond to the address that it came form not the fourm.. thanks.

Now the to answer the question now that everyone knows the question..OK works for me.. your right.. 100 units sold or not.. to me, i care less if 100 or 1000 units are sold and likey neather does the IMPBA....

OK, 100 units must be built.. (packaged for... re-sale?) or just built.. watcha think..?

Will we see a picture of the motors or just production numbers stamped on a case... do i have to vist the factory or shoud we just let any body stick parts together in there shop and sell sport motors..?

Anouncing.. The new Grimracer 21 stock motor

CMB power head

Irwin Lower

and...lets see.. K+B muffler..

I will put them together in my shop and sell them on my website...

Is this the way we feel about the sport class motor? Its the feeling im getting?

Mike

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

re: NAMBA's Stock Class

I think the number of engines that are supposed to be "available" to qualify for a NAMBA Stock Class engine is 500 units.

JD

 

[james irwin]

WWOW ; HEY YALL SORRY ABOUT CREATING SUCHA MESS ,

HELLS BELLS THE MOTORS ARE STILL OVERSEAS AND NOW EV0ERYNOE WANTS SEE WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE ?? GIMMY A BREAK GUYS , AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE , AS SOON AS THEY HIT THE DOOR THERE WILL BE A FEWW SENT TO IMPBA/ NAMBA / APBA , FOR EVAULUATION , AND TESTING PLEASE DONT GET YOUR UNDERWEAR IN A BIND OVER THIS AS YET . THEY MAY NOT BE HERE UNTIL THE MIDDLE OF DEC;

 

[waterbug]

 

 

HERE WE GO AGAIN

 

NAMBA HAS APROVED THE ENGINE............... They were smart when the engines were there they checked it out ...........!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

YES there are going to be 500 for sale.....to the public....... :huh:

 

Grim , I will be glad when you get a engine in your hands,if you can get CMB to make you a motor and a pipe/muffler and you make a lower unit WITH YOUR NAME AND PART #'S ON THEM, ,THEN YES...........for less than 300.00 ea....?? :lol: :lol: :lol:

The IRWIN PARTS WILL BE SHIPPED TO IRWINS MUFFLERS AND ASSEMBLED THERE .......JUST LIKE K&B DOES..............!!! THE PARTS ARE GOING TO BE SHIPPED TO THE USA AND ASSEMBLED.........DUH !!!!!!!! THATS RIGHT THE PARTS.....

 

YOU THREE CAN [edit] POLITIC BETWEEN YOURSELVES ........ h34r: I'm offically outside just looking in... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I love the USA.....................POLITICS...... :lol: h34r: :lol: I'm taking my PANTIES HOME....... :lol: :lol:

 

Is that better Brian.....

 

Dave I agree instead of interperatation of the rules......refine the rules.......ie: timing-carb size-exhaust outlet size.....It is what it is.....pain in the butt..NO leadership.....GET TOGETHER IMPBA BOARD OF DIRECTERS........O.B.D. call a meeting and take the K&B SS and SPEC it and that be the rules for other engine MFG's......same carb size,same exhaust size,same timing.......

 

 

 

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

Mike

Sorry to have made you get what appears to be angry. I had no intension of doing so. So I would ask that you accept my apology, I did not intend to start anything.

I was not responding to an e-mail you sent. I have not been able to recieve e-mail all day. I was basically asking to get clarification on your interpretation. You had stated several times in this thread the statment I quoted. Sorry I don't know how to do that fancy quote thing.

I would totally agree that some form of document like a picture of the 100 assembled units. That would at least allow you to see that the units are available.

I wanted also to start a dialog on getting some better or maybe clearer rules for the sport class. I would never want to make the sport (Stock) class an anything goes class. You know me, my stock motor is just that stock, any one who want to look inside can do so its totally box stock. I have been working on the set up of my stock boat to make it faster and with your help it is getting there.

I really want to get a clear picture of what the current rules require and maybe what should be changed or added to the sport class rules. If you want to discuss this via E-mail or phone I am cool with that.

Thanks for all your help Mike and I know we can make this clearer for all of us. I just started the wrong way sorry.

Brian

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

Water Bug

I have no intension to fight with anyone. My goal is clear, make sure I understand the interperatation of the rules. If a rule is not clear then we need to make it clearer.

Brian

 

[dave roach]

I fell that the stock class or now the sport class need rules in writing to clear up this problem that has been going on for along time now. things are so wish E washE it unbleveable. impba needs to get there heads out of you know were and get the show on the road.

My 0.02 cents

 

[Lake S.P.O.R.T.]

Well, for what it is worth, I think this whole thing about the Sport/Stock class has become over complicated and not because of new engines. The answer to this problem is right under everyones nose....in the rule book. Protest Procedure. Yeah, yeah I know, I am the one running the boat that is exempt from protest under R&D but hear me out. If the motors in the stock class had to be stock on the inside, fine. After a weekend of racing if NOBODY in the class files a protest then give out the awards, shake hands and go home. No need for mandatory engine tear down. If someone feels like there is a cheater out there then protest his engine or buy his engine under the "buy it" rule. If after the protest his engine is found to be a cheater then toss him. But like I said if nobody protests then all is fair in love and war.....and racing. By leaving the engine protest decision up to the racers you have self regulation of a pure stock class. After running a box stock K&B SS engine this year I can tell you that a stock class with these engines would be very fun and very competitive. Another engine manufacturer? Great. Submit the specs to the sanctioning body and the engines to prove it. I think a class full of stock Irwins, SS's and OS's would be good for both seasoned racers and newcomers. And don't foget that a good engine is only a small part of having a winning rig.

Mark

 

[Grimracer]

First let me say this.. Waterbug.. i need clarification on a few of your statements.. That would be nice. I think i was just called a dumba$$.. if so i hope that you did not mean it..

Next.. Brian.. i know you have a stake in the hobby and the new motor but i can tell you this.. neither will have a bearing on my decision about the motor.. i have full intentions of doing what is right for the HOBBY.. i have no intentions of making a mess of the IMPBAs sport tunnel class... I want new engines too..

With this OBD position its live and die by the sword and i have had enough death for one summer..

Mike

 

[Grimracer]

Because we have opened up such a shitty can of worms this is for the guys that either dont, wont or cant read... now.. how this is interrupted............

This is what i have to work with.. O yea you can find this (anybody can) at http://www.impba.net/

Grim

Engine and Hull Specifications

1. There shall be one engine class, Class B.

2. The Sport outboard class shall use tunnel boats only.

3. The Sport outboard tunnel class shall not lock down the engine or use any auxiliary steering system.

4. Original carb bore and exhaust configuration will be retained as manufactured. No modification to the carb bore or exhaust outlets will be allowed.

5. No high performance exhaust systems (tuned pipes) will be allowed, even if they are offered by the manufacturer of the engine. Clarification: the two outlet exhaust / muffler chambers offered by K&B and O.S. are not considered tuned pipes and will be allowed in the Sport outboard tunnel class.

Engine Specifications

1. Engines must be standard factory production with a minimum of 100 units available for sale to the general public. To be eligible for the International Regatta the engines must have been offered for sale to the general public not less than ninety (90) days prior to that year's International Regatta.

2. The powerhead and lower unit must be of the same manufacturer and model.

3. The engine external parts shall remain as originally manufactured within series except as shown in Part 4. Clarification: No water-cooled engine parts shall be used with air-cooled engine parts. Common engine parts that are used on both engines models may be interchanged. Slide valve exhaust adapters may not be used with carburetor equipped engines.

4. The following exceptions will be allowed in the Sport Outboard Tunnel specifications.

a. Adhesives (loctite), set screws and jam nuts.

b. Any carb linkage arms.

c. Any motor mount.

d. Any glow plug, fuel brand and mixture.

e. Any type steering arm.

f. Any flywheel nut.

g. The lower unit below the cavitation plate may be trimmed, sharpened or polished. No material shall be added to the lower unit.

h. Adjustable mixture controls will be allowed, however the original needle valve must remain in its original position.

 

[Grimracer]

Well, for what it is worth, I think this whole thing about the Sport/Stock class has become over complicated and not because of new engines. The answer to this problem is right under everyones nose....in the rule book. Protest Procedure. Yeah, yeah I know, I am the one running the boat that is exempt from protest under R&D but hear me out. If the motors in the stock class had to be stock on the inside, fine. After a weekend of racing if NOBODY in the class files a protest then give out the awards, shake hands and go home. No need for mandatory engine tear down. If someone feels like there is a cheater out there then protest his engine or buy his engine under the "buy it" rule. If after the protest his engine is found to be a cheater then toss him. But like I said if nobody protests then all is fair in love and war.....and racing. By leaving the engine protest decision up to the racers you have self regulation of a pure stock class. After running a box stock K&B SS engine this year I can tell you that a stock class with these engines would be very fun and very competitive. Another engine manufacturer? Great. Submit the specs to the sanctioning body and the engines to prove it. I think a class full of stock Irwins, SS's and OS's would be good for both seasoned racers and newcomers. And don't foget that a good engine is only a small part of having a winning rig.
Mark

Mark

I think the problem is its so simple that we make it complicated.

IMPBA accepts protests now... www.impba.net..G-7

The go-no-go gauge makes it so that engine teardowns are not necessary.

Also after racing the sport tunnel class for the last 5 years it is fun..No question on that.. for those that have not raced the class give it a try..its a blast..

Submit the specs... why.. the go-no-go gauge eliminates all need for this..

Thanks for your input..

Grim

 

[james irwin]

THIS SO CALLED STK CLASS AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED IS A JOKE ? THE ONLY REASON IN THE WORLD IT IS LIKE IT IS ( SPORT CLASS ) IS BECAUSE WE HAD TWO PEOPLE ON THE BOARD AT THAT TIME THAT DID NOT WANT TO DO A COMPLETE TEAR DOWN , IN 1996 AT THE NATS , ME AND MARTY DAVIS WAS ASKED TO DO THE TEAR DOWN , WE TOLD THEM WE WOULD DO SO . BUT IT MEANT THAT A STK CLASS MEANT ABSOLUTLY BOX STOCK . WITH NO DEVIATION FROM THE RULES > HEY , YOU NEVER HEARD SO MUCH COMPLAINIG IN YOUR LIFE , WE HEARD EVERY EXSCUSE YOU COULD IMAGINE , I HELD UP MY HAND AND TOLD THEM ALL . GETELMEN AND LADYS . THIS IS AN ITERNATIONAL EVENT , CONDUCT IT AS SUCH , OK ? HE HE THEY TOOK A VOTE AND DECIDED TO LET US DO IT . GUESE WHAT HAPPENED , THE FIRST THREE PLACES WERE ELEMINATED BECAUASE OF RULE DEVIATION , AND I MEAN BIG TIME RULE DEVEATION , HAD IT BEEN SOMETHING SMALL . WE WOULD HAVE OVERLOOKED IT , THE 4TH PLACE MAN TOOK OVER 1ST PLACE / SO NOW YOU HAVE A STK APERRING CLASS THAT TAKES A LOT OF MONEY TO TO GET INTO IF YOU EXPECT TO BE COMPETITVE, WHAT HAPPENES NOW IF A YUONGSTER WANTS TO RACE , ?? WE NEED TO GET BACK TO BASICS PEOPLE . IF YOU INSIST ON KEEPING IT T THIS LEVEL , THEN PUT A CLAIMING RULE IN THERE ALSO . JUST TO KEEP EVERYONE STK . SAY RETAIL FOR YOUR MOTOR ? IF YOU DO NOT SELL IT , THEN YOU ARE BARRED FROM RUNNING IN THAT STK CLASS , IT DOES WORK . NUFF SAID GOD BLESS

 

[Grimracer]

James.

There is an engine claim rule.. i hate it, but we have it so there you go... its in there..

James, im surprised that you call the class a joke.. you are the one trying to produce a motor just for this class. :blink: Now im confused.. hehehe :lol:

The sport tunnel class in IMPBA is one of the best classes they have.. the boats are fun to drive, the cost is not over the top, the motors are easy to tune, the drivers are fun to race with, the fast guys are still the fast guys, you get surprised by young guns from time to time, you have to know your setup very well to do well, you can use just about any hull and still be near the top, the prop is sill the most critical element to the setup......any of the above catch any of you off guard.. did not think so…

Note.. i said nothing about getting new racers in the class.. This was not the intent of the class as formed by IMPBA.. It was added as bragging rights for the top racers and others that want to try to beat down the best tunnel tuners in the world. Like it or not…(I will keep my opinion to myself regarding this) its the way it is.. the rules fit the intent its just that the intent was never written.

Lets get on with it and get racing..

Grim

 

[user 115]

I have brought this point up a number of times on this board. For a long time, people were calling the IMPBA 21 class stock. I pointed out that it is "Sport 21"..

Basically it is what it is. The rules are there and are easy to follow. If you don't like them, then don't run the class.

With that being said, I still think the IMPBA Sport 21 is a cheater's class. A go-no-go guage is the most vague definition and allows a number of modifications to be made to an engine that will never be detected.

But also with that being said..lol... The rules are there.. They are clear and as many top racers will tell you.. There are NO speed secrets.. If you have a question, just ask..

Intent, rules.. Whatever.. If you ask the question, you will get answers.

Sport 21 is what it is. Modified tunnel without a pipe...