Food for thought!!

[Geraghty]

I would like to respond to Eirc Bourlets generous comment as to my boat designing skills.....
I am no genius in tunnel boat design.....What I do possess is some hard learned "wisdom".....
What taught me this wisdom is 45+ years rowing a retrieve boat.....I do have a PHD in retrieve boat rowing skills...lol
In my opinion these are the rules to be considered in a successful boat design....

1.What touches the water is where a good design must start.....95% of the boats success is where and how it touches the water.....

2.Now don't get me wrong , AERO does play a part in boat control but not as much as you would think....

3.By in large everything above the water is eye candy....The JAE rigger design has proved that.....The JAE looks like a flying mailbox but it sure does work where it touches the water....

4.The JAE rigger overall design appearance is predicated on ease of building , not eye candy....simple as that....

5.The center section and cowl of a tunnel boat is essentially a multi axis directional control surface...

Now when it comes to selling boats for big money...pretty does help....that is called marketing and there is nothing wrong with that...I myself prefer performance over pretty.....If you consistently end up chasing and running second to a turd ....that turd eventually becomes beautiful....
Here are some photos of Tommy Lees 25 year old 21 tunnel that currently holds the NAMBA [Stock OPC]and IMPBA .21 [Sport 21] tunnel records at 63.060 and 67.750 respectively....No super slick eye candy here....Just an attempt to build a dead neutral control surface....
The cowl shape on the new Zipp tunnel is introducing an influence on that dead neutral control surface requirement....
We are going to try to rectify that....
This boat was designed specifically for 1/16 mile SAW running.....A heat race boat has a completely different bottom where it " touches " the water......
This boat is 25+ years old.....go figure.....something to consider in your boat design bucket....

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

The center section is a "multi axis directional control surface" Jeez, and all these years I just thought it was the "thing a ma bob" to attach the sponsons.

Dunny

 

[LohringMiller]

I want one for P limited tunnel. Maybe we can get a few of the northern District 8 racers down to our pond for some fun.

Lohring Miller

 

[Geraghty]

The center section is a "multi axis directional control surface" Jeez, and all these years I just thought it was the "thing a ma bob" to attach the sponsons.

Dunny

More "wisdom"!!!!!
I'll buy a "thing a ma bob".......but I prefer some fancy words for...I have no idea what it is doing and get in the dam chase boat.......hahaha
Every time I went testing looking for an answer to a specific question....I only came home with 10 more questions....
Its a frigging RC boat disease that has no known cure...lolol

 

[Kris Flynn]

More "wisdom"!!!!!
I'll buy a "thing a ma bob".......but I prefer some fancy words for...I have no idea what it is doing and get in the dam chase boat.......hahaha
Every time I went testing looking for an answer to a specific question....I only came home with 10 more questions....
Its a frigging RC boat disease that has no known cure...lolol

LOL

I know this feeling!

Thank you for you other explanation on what matters...I also agree that the top matters MUCH less than the bottom, even when going 80mph+!

This new build is sure to shake the OB scene thats for sure! I am keen to get my hands on a couple to have sitting around for others to play with

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

Notice that Tommy's record boat does not have long pickles. Maybe 3.5 to 4 inches long.
Rod thanks for putting hobby prices back into the hobby!

 

[Mike Luszcz]

....

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Rod,

Please post a picture of your square drive adaptor for your dynamite engine or pass along your purchase info or P/N.

Thanks
-Carl

 

[Geraghty]

Rod,

Please post a picture of your square drive adaptor for your dynamite engine or pass along your purchase info or P/N.

Thanks
-Carl

Fred Howe at Lawless drives makes the adapter.... Talk to Fred for all information ...I have no sales interest in the adapter or coupler.....That's all in Freds bag for this offering..... 1-607-687-0143 ...... All I was responsible for was the idea , designing & testing.......Fred did all the mfg and it is in wheelhouse...
Carl, If you are considering trying the adapter , send me your email address....I have a short video of a linkage that converts a north south carb linkage to east west action....very simple so you can use a car slide carb using $2.00 Dubro bell crank....I believe it is a number 167 bell crank....

 

[Carl Van Houten]

I wanted to see the part for connecting the square cable to the engine. I was trying to tell a guy about it the other day but wasn't sure what thread or length etc. the adapter was for your drive cable. That's all.

 

[Geraghty]

I wanted to see the part for connecting the square cable to the engine. I was trying to tell a guy about it the other day but wasn't sure what thread or length etc. the adapter was for your drive cable. That's all.

the coupler is about 3/4 " long....1/4-28 one end ......1/8" square drive on the other....There is enough 1/4-28 to pick up the SG shaft threads on the car motors...

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Okay so it's standard 1/4-28 thread. That's what I was wondering. Most are I just wanted to make sure. THANKS!

 

[Greg Johnson]

Very good post. I've been out of O/B nitro for the past 6 years as I moved where it takes me 2.5 hours to get to practice water. Thought about getting back in to nitro but the fuel cost, glow plug cost and motor costs make it a poor decision. I think part of the issue has to be that K&B quit making affordable ready to run, bolt on and go motors. You didn't need to get a kit to mount a motor to a lower end. In the day you all have to agree that K&B owned the market on outboards and you could get a Hotshot or a Prather or a Tom's Cat and be in the water quick. There was such a thing as a brick and morter hobby store, and they were everywhere. Where I ran in IL at the forest preserve someone could come out see you run. Ask those 3 questions brought up in an earlier thread. They could go to the hobby store and get what they need and be out running the next weekend with you.

Went to the Voodoo race this weekend to watch my son race and thought about getting into gas after watching them.

Gas isn't much better though. Can't afford the motor and lower end on an O/B even being I would build my own tunnel. You think you could enter in with a Thunderboat but on the cheap you'll part with $1,000 also. Only real saving is gas vs. nitro cost and spark plug vs. glow plug costs.

Hope this adds to the Food for Thought portion. Not looking to disagree with anyone.

 

[Chris doherty]

Ron,

1.I guess we will just have to agree to disagree...
2.My post was never addressed to the "racer"......I directed my post to attracting the possible new RC nitro boater , not the "racer"...
3.This .28 tunnel outboard adapter was not pointed at the "racer"......the racing community is already hooked.... I don't care if this adapter ever gets raced....
4.I appreciate what you have done supplying the RC nitro boat "racing" community with equipment .....kudos to you for that effort ....North America "racers" know your company exists...
5.I am sure there are a bunch of possible "Nitro RC boaters" that have no idea that Novarossi U.S.A. even exists....
6.I personally do not believe Facebook and vaping is the major cause of decline in RC nitro boating....No doubt it has an influence but just how much nobody knows....
I don't personally care....I want to know how to get exposure and get somebody to invest in RC nitro boating...RC boat "racers"come later in that process....
7.I introduced this effort on RC Universe also....That forum has 640,000 members....IW has 8,000..... By my math that is a better than 80 times better chance at exposure and to get somebody to try out the RC nitro boating hobby.......RC gas and FE are not suffering....in fact just the opposite .... they are gathering up the RC nitro drop outs...
8.RC Universe is where we introduced the JAE back 13 years ago....It grew legs world wide and continues to grow....One of the reasons the JAE effort was successful was the much lower cost tempted people to try hobby and the number of RC boaters we reached.....Go to You Tube and see how many JAES are being run and not raced.....
9.If you think hobby cost doesn't affect participation , you are dreaming....Getting the "new" RC boater interested in raising their VISA card balance by $1000.00 on the possibility they
will like RC nitro boating is a major drawback to attracting participation...
10.A new RC nitro boaters major research vehicle , because of the decline in the local hobby shop population ,will be ebay....The cheapest O.S. on ebay is $550.00...
The racer knows your prices are less , the "racer" knows this...not the newbie.....Put your O.S. outboards on ebay for $439.00 + shipping and see how many bites you get....

11.As to being negative .....when is telling the truth being negative???....The local clubs have to have something to offer that doesn't cost $1,000.00......

Like I said we will just have to agree to disagree....
I don't want to chew on this any longer.....I want ideas and possible solutions......

I've been In RC since the 70s in all aspects planes boats cars heli and I agree nitro is losing people to gas and fe 100% and I believe a part has to do with simplicity gas is easier to setup and electric is way better with the coming out with the lipo and brushless motors I don't think nitro got worse it got better I use to go to the pond or flying field in the 70s and 80s and wouldn't be able to keep a nitro motor running no matter what now they start easier and easier to tune but gas and electric got leaps and bounds better then nitro has.and nitro engine manufactures has dwindles down to nothing at its peak in the 90s we had o.s k&b ops picco Rossi cmb mac just in boats others like planes lost even more motor companies now it's down to cmb and novirossi while gas and electric has gained motor companies and part support. The whole nitro fuel price is a poor excuse you will pay 700 for a motor header and pipe but can't afford a 50.00 gallon of fuel. That's silly . But the fact is there is alot less support for nitro and nitro parts . Untill that picks up if ever nitro will suffer and I know a ton of guys that tossed away there nitro boats and only run gas now . If nitro had the same exposure with the amount motors and parts gas and fe has to chose it would be as popular Also noise and lake access has alot to do with it I can run fe in a park without issue if I ran a nitro screaming around the lake people freak out and by me hobby shops disappeared .so there is many issues the decline of nitro not just one or two things

 

[Wasted wages]

Yeah, but the sound of a twin nitro rigger just gets in your blood .. Everyone stops what they are doing to come watch the twins run...

Nitro 'til I Die !!!!

 

[Davidkrienke]

I have been flying, running cars and boats since the 80s and I am in it to win it with nitro boats lately. This year I have been trying to really learn all I can and building one after the other as I pick them up on ebay and having a blast with them on the cheap for the most part.
The .21 engines and boats to fit is most cost effective I find and I will keep buying fuel and having fun as long as I can. I Do want a Cmb .21 and a state of the art hull too but just not in my budget . I hope we can keep nitro alive. There is something about the smell and the satisfaction of getting the engine tuned just right and getting the boat setup and seeing it go after building a boat that cant be replaced by ready to run boats. Without the fiddling unless your racing boats are boring. Same with cars. I even had my own pro dirt track in my yard for 10 years and cars are the same the fun is in the tuning and racing. The only thing I have found in R/c that never gets boring is flying pattern competitions with airplanes because its so hard to do maneuvers perfect. I really hope people will put there phones down and get into r/c anything in the future but it is getting really hard with all the distraction and no hobby stores hardly to draw in new guys.
Also I love this Site so much. the search function having all the great boaters posts to go though is such a game changer for knowledge and entertainment. I sometimes get lost for hours reading all the old threads. So grateful for all you guys on here.

 

[Gary Parker]

What happened to the boat and engine in this thread between November 2020 and September 2021 - loved reading about the rationale, the controversy and the development of a low cost engine, outboard leg and boat kit and then nothing !
Don't mind cliffhangers at the movies but it's not so good in an interesting forum thread.

 

[Zach Davis]

Gary,
The boat is in Production now and available from Zippkits. You will have to check with Lawless on the outboard mount.