Pipe Talk.....

[Slideblues]

OK here,

I have been following a thred at Marty's talkin about the resonant frequency that pipes operate at. Boiled down the older the pipe the better..... Yeah Andy Brown's record pipe is also his oldest

Hmmmmmmm, so lets think a little here, I had three Irwins all different ages, ran all three and guess what my oldest (also my shortest) was the fastest of all three.

Not just me either, general agreements for some of the others was the same.

So does the heating and quenching, during normal operation, temper the material to a hardness that is faster over the long run is the question......

Exceptions to this to me would be CF pipes, also fast, but I cant see them ringing as a Steel or Aluminum pipe would.

So what ya think here?

Gene ;D

 

[_laxmasta2039]

sounds like it's time to get out the blowtorch and start aging my pipes! ;D

that's pretty interesting, it sounds like it can't just be from happenstance too.

i wonder if we'll be seeing "pre-aged" pipes in the future?

do you think that they stop becoming more resonant at some point?

Joe

 

[Slideblues]

Hey Joe,

Yeah I would think there is a sweet spot somewhere, dont know how much or how long the tempering process needs to go for max improvement,

Gene ;D

 

[_laxmasta2039]

does steel temper better/more than Al?

i know steel pipes have alot of fans among gas guys, maybe that's why?

okay sorry, just treat those questions as hypothetical, im just thinkin' about what effect this has on my pipe-buying in the future.

Joe

 

[Slideblues]

There has been lots of post at Jims too talkin bout steel vs. aluminum,

To me the steel is already harder, so that is different, and the aluminum would resonate at a different frequency than the steel.

As to buying habits still to early to tell in my book, But if I find a old Irwin I will but it now Already sold my two newer Irwins,

Just for compairsion,

Gene ;D

 

[[email protected]]

Guys,

Good post and a great question. Over at R/CBoat.com I have a friend who posts by the name of Roy Munoz. He and his son Peter did some reworking of the Irwin quiet pipes. They put a spray inside that increased the heat of the pipe producing more RPM's from the N/R .21. I'll call Roy up tonight and ask him they were using. Apperantly they put it in more of their pipes.

I think Roy spends more time on that board because they have an 1/8 scale and a Sport .40 post group. I'll incourage him to come over here. He has great knowledge of the hobby and is a blast to talk to!

 

[[email protected]]

Ever see the CMB .21 black pipe?? The spray is similar to what they use for motor bikes. You can buy it in an aerosal spray at your local Honda dealership. It dries flat powder black. What it does is make the pipe keep the heat which gives you more speed. I'm gonna respray my pipe since it's starting to come off. When you use this stuff you must clean it thouroghly, fingerprints will make it not stick as your drying it in the oven.

 

[Slideblues]

Hey Big D,

With all the new coatings, lots of choices. But would the paint or coating while holding in heat make the material resonate less? One that comes to mind is Jet-Hot

Which brings up another point,

All the car pipes are anodized in different colors, why not the boat pipes? (with exception of the CMB)

Gene ;D

 

[Slideblues]

At the bottom specific to Tuned Pipes:

 

[Roy_Munoz]

Hi I was reading your post and Roddneys,,We coated the inside of the pipes with a liquid ceramic ..It was done in a coating shop.. This prosses was developed my a Mororcyle racer..It keeps all of the heat inside the pipe and the outside stays cool..That why the cycles racers use it..Keeps therm from being burned..But they found out that this prossess also gave them more RPM,s and tork..We my son and I were ask to try it in our boat pipes, and see how they work for us.. It realy improved the proformance of the pipes, (Irwins ,and MAC prod) Maybe because it Harden the pipes ? Or because of the heat retension ? Or maybe a little of both .. Just something to think about.....Roy

 

[GTR]

Hi Guy's

I was going to suggest that ceramic was the coating to go for but Roy M beat me to it. Even if this is internally coated it would help to put a heat retaining coating on the outside. Heat in the exhaust in a 2 stroke = power.

Remeber for OB runners you have the worst possibility of water splashing all over it taking out the heat. I noticed the metion of car pipes - you will notice all the serious car pipes are matt black - good reason for this.

Often overlooked factor is if your pipe is operating correctly it is drawing fuel mixture into the pipe and cooling it. This is one of the reasons sleeving down the stinger works as it keeps more heat in the pipe.

GT 8)

 

[Ann O. Dyse]

I've heard a rumor that Anodizing Aluminum Pipes has the same effect of adding an Acoustic and Thermal insulating barrier that keeps the EGT and acoustics up and inside of aluminum pipes. Also keeps the weight off the tail end of the boat ;D

 

[nitro junky]

Is there a weight gain by ceramic costing?

 

[TimD]

There is a relationship between EGT and pipe length. By coating the pipe you are possibly reducing the variance in the pipe temp which is making the pipe length more consistent thru a run. It may not be making more power - just staying at the right length longer.

The point about material used to make the pipe is a good one. I Have seen the same pipe made in Steel and CF and the CF pipe turned on harder and gave a better peak rpm at the same length on a bench run.

Forget comparisons to what gas boats use - they have considerably higher EGT.

 

[Slideblues]

I believe the harder the surface or temper of the surface the more reflected wave you get. The pulse scavaging effect of the ceramic coating must work also as increasing the speed of the flow of escaping gases due to the smoother more uniform surface while also holding heat,

Gene ;D

NJ,

The weight gain would be minimal just coating the inside would be my guess.

 

[Roy_Munoz]

One thing to also remember about ceramic coating a pipe is that it hold the heat inside the pipe unlike the Anodized pipe..You can hold on to the pipe after a hard run,and it feel warm..You can't do that with a Anodized one.. And water hitting on it has no affect on the RPM as you get with the other ones...We been testing these pipes for over 5 years now,and weight gaine is verry minimal....Roy

 

[Slideblues]

It does sound very interesting Roy, what would a .21 size pipe cost to have coated?

Back to the orig question, I think we all are hitttin on the same thing, the harder the surface wheather its steel or aluminum or CF, the faster the pipe, so the more refelected wave pulse the better would be what I take from all this, The added effect of more heat from the ceramic coating, another plus.

So the optimum would be a hard enough surface to refelect the wave but still be lite enough for the application.

Gene ;D

 

[Ian Inverarity]

Gene,

I have been using CF pipes for years with good results! ;D A stiffer pipe might be better, but I dont really know. CF is a much better insulator than aluminium or steel tho.

Nitrocrazed racing: Bolly pipes all the way....

 

[Slideblues]

Yes Ian I agree

The CF pipe I had like Tim's was a screamer, KEWL the way it two staged.

Gene ;D

It would seem that CF offers the refelection ability with out the harder surface found in metals 8) Hmmmmmmmm.......... ?

 

[Ian Inverarity]

Gene,

I doubt that surface hardness has an effect, rather material stiffness would be more important for wave reflection. :-

Ian.