Thoughts on the Stock Class rules

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ChrisHerzog

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Jan 20, 2019
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I want to put this out there to you all to try and get some dialog going about a problem that I for seen coming many many years ago.
Basically, I think as a group we should consider replacing the word ‘STOCK” with “SPEC” or something similar. So basically, every class that runs a “Stock” motor, Stock Mono, Stock Cat, Thunderboat, Cracker Box ect, ect would be required to run a Spec Motor and not a Stock Motor. There may be a better word to use other then Spec but that can also be discussed. The point is the classes (Stock Mono and Stock Cat) were originally started years ago for the newbe to be able to build a less expensive boat that was a little slower allowing him/her to get their feet wet and learn to drive and race a RC Gas Boat. Since then, the Stock Mono class has evolved into one of the most competitive classes that we as a whole run that attracts all racers because it’s a driver’s class and no longer a beginner’s class. My goal in bringing this up is to create a way to make it so very easy to tec a motor almost anyone can do it. To have to break down an engine completely and mic every single part then have 5 people look it over to come up with a conclusion is ridiculous and way overboard.
My suggestion is to get a list of specific part numbers with a range of tolerances for only the important things such as bearings, rings, pistons, jugs, carbs ect. ect and make sure that the engine in question has those part numbers in it and move on. So basically, it can’t have a skirted piston in it but if the engine has the right piston in it, move on. The same for the jug and bearings and everything else. My thought is that when someone is DQed because it looks like they might have done something to an engine, maybe to save it or whatever but what they have done gives the engine absolutely no advantage and he/she is still DQed, its time to do some rethinking about what we are trying to do here. My goal is to make the TECH process as simple as possible so that it is very easy and very consistent for everyone to come to the same conclusion every time.
The second part to this is to try and come up with a very simple process for everyone to follow at all “let’s say” IMPBA races that will have tech inspections. I’m sure some of this may go on already but the goal is to have a uniform procedure that is consistent at every race every time. For instance, it’s not really necessary to tech the top three boats in a given class. Tech the first-place boat, if he passes tech it’s over, if he gets DQed move on to the second-place boat and so on. It’s ridiculous to have to pull every engine that made it into the top three, apart. Next, have one or two tech guys at big events. The decision that they make by themselves or if are two guys, together is like the CD, its final. They don’t need to go around and ask everyone at the race what each and everyone’s thought is, make a decision and stick to it then move on. Next, like the CD, name who will be doing TECH on the official flyer for each event. If I have a problem with a certain guy I can either not go to that race or not race in those classes. Finally, again like the CD, make it so that the TECH’s need to be certified by the organization and give them a place to discuss issues and solutions to things that come up so that they are all on the same page and are being as consistent as possible at every race.
If we can come up with a good solution for the first part of all this, the second part of what I have written won’t really matter and like the CD test anyone can and should become certified as a tech. The simpler we can keep the rules for these classes the better it will be for us all. Thoughts????
 
Easy.... do like the tech car racers ..
select a dealer that can sell sealed engines.

Either a sealed safety wire passed thru key bolt heads with a IMPBA seal on it, or tamper proof twist off bolt heads on all key points of the motor.

That way the motor truly remains stock.
 
Easy.... do like the tech car racers ..
select a dealer that can sell sealed engines.

Either a sealed safety wire passed thru key bolt heads with a IMPBA seal on it, or tamper proof twist off bolt heads on all key points of the motor.

That way the motor truly remains stock.
That’s not practical, to many people sell Zenoah engines and there are way to many motors already out there racing. You can’t expect everyone to go buy new motors from one person.
 
Let's not re-invent the "wheel"
The classes work as is!

But if you insist, write a proposal and run it up the flag pole
Not looking to reinvent the wheel, just trying to make it easier for everyone involved, CD’s, Engine Tech’s and Racers alike. Then to make it consistent at every race. The simpler the better.

As for running it up the flag pole, I will do that once I get all my thoughts together. I wanted to hear from others their thoughts about what works and what does not then put the best thoughts all together on one item and send it in.
 
That’s not practical, to many people sell Zenoah engines and there are way to many motors already out there racing. You can’t expect everyone to go buy new motors from one person.

I was thinking more along the lines of getting Zenoah involved, so dealers could sell a stock sealed motor. Just like Chevy and Ford do.

And yes, set a date...and if you want to run a stock class, you have to buy a sealed motor.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of getting Zenoah involved, so dealers could sell a stock sealed motor. Just like Chevy and Ford do.

And yes, set a date...and if you want to run a stock class, you have to buy a sealed motor.
Then when one breaks at a race your out? The motor has to be sent in to someone for repairs and resealed? I don’t think that is practical. I pull my motors down to inspect them from time to time and I’m sure others do as well, the cost would be crazy.
 
hand out motors?, you get a motor from the cd table and install it in your boat, run the race, after the race you hand it back in. might be tough to get that much motors at the event but its a thought
 
But then is every engine going to be maintained to runs it's best. When people get bum engines that don't perform like their bone stock test engine that would not be fair either. They would all have to be brand new in the box every time for that to be fair and proper.

Unfortunately, not easy to find better solution that is good for everyone.

There is no answer to solve this easily. What is done now has been thought about many times.
 
A claiming rule would solve many of the problems of the past races. Great suggestion Doc. Also today's rules would work fine if clubs would actually even just tech the first place boat. Modifications for saving an engine is just an excuse, new piston and jugs are only $35.
 
What has always worked in go karting stock classes is a claiming rule,ie, set motor pricing and you can file a claim for the winners motor. You can add a premium for the claimed motor for removal.

Hey Andy. Provided an engine was claimed mid race, I'm assuming it's up to the racer to have a backup engine to install before the next heat? Also, are the prices of claimed engines marked up as well? I believe at AMA motocross events, (depending on class) claimed bikes are MSRP and up to XX% of MSRP added on top as well. Refusal of a claim is grounds for DQ and a suspension.

My worry is that not everyone who comes to a sanctioned race will have a backup stock 260 engine, and if your engine is claimed, that puts you out of a race. Consider travel fees and or hotel ect. Might be a silly thing to worry about, but not everyone will have a backup engine ready to drop in and go. In my eyes, if someone wants to claim an engine, you had better be ready to hand them a brand new engine to install on the spot before the next heat.

Just my two pennies.
 
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Motor claims dont work.. UNLESS or at the point some knuckle head says.. "IM GOING TO CLAIM YOUR MOTOR" that they get off there wallet and get it done.. at that very moment.. if not, its just chest pumping BS.

In the end.. they just dont work for toy boat racing.

WAY BACK in the stone ages Sport Tunnel had a claim rule (when I was a BOD I proposed and wrote it out). It was NEVER used and I personally was threated twice to have my motor claimed.. . they never got off there wallets... to bad.. the implication was made I was cheating.. there was never a "trial" (the money)


Good luck on your quest.. what you will find is what you have now.. is best.

Grim
 
The last thing local clubs needs is to tear down motors when they are just trying to put the equipment away and hand out trophies. At a national event then teardown is part of making a superior event.
Claiming can work. The first place winner can be claimed by any one who raced in his class after the final heat and before awards are handed out. The claim starts with a protest fee and then teardown or refuse the claim keep your motor and you self DQ and 2nd place and below move up. Set a claiming price at 150% the retail of the motor.
Easier for the host officials than a tear down.
Mic
 
I would love for both the IMPBA and NAMBA to adopt the same rules in some of these classes but it’s hard enough just to get the membership in one organization to agree on something. However, I have wanted this to happen for many years now.

I’m not sure if a claiming rule that covers the cost of a replacement will actually do any good. For instance, I show up to a race and let’s say I do something minor that is not obvious to the eye but the motor runs strong. Doc claimed it puts it in his boat, I buy another engine and do the same thing with the same results. We now have two illegal motors racing.

My idea years ago when we were all talking about a “Stock” class was to hand out 1/16” thick anodized IMPBA owned restrictor plates. Allow participants in the class to do whatever they want to the engine but the restrictor plate cannot be altered in anyway. Tech would just be a matter of pulling the carb and looking at the plate. Then if in question all that’s needed would be to measure the hole in the plate with a numbered drill bit and look for any missing anodizing. It’s fast, simple, cheap and easy for anyone to do at any given race.

I’m sure that there are guys on here much smarter then me that can come up with a way to make it easier then what we do now, simple enough for anyone to do, and that is faster and fair for everyone. To have to pull a motor completely down and check each individual part which is subject to opinion just causes unnecessary stress, hard feelings and resentment.
 
Welcome to the world of "stock" engines. I've seen a NAMBA Nationals winner disqualified for not having a K&B needle valve in the fuel line. It was fine to run a 3rd channel needle as long as the stock one was in the line.

All the above is the reason for the NAMBA G classes. Tech is much easier and a simple stroke check done before each heat prevents cheating. I submit that the G classes are already spec classes since the mods are widely known. The thing that makes the biggest difference is the pipe. I have tested a pipe design that adds almost 1/2 hp to a stock Zenoah over an M&D pipe. That's over 10%.

However, when you consider that stock 26 cc Zenoah powered monos driven by people like Eric Bourlet and Mark Anderson can beat 30 cc mod engine monos driven by members of my club, you can see that driving, props, and setup is what really matters.

Lohring Miller
 
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