Gas engine class(es)

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KGilbert

Active Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Messages
35
Have either the IMPBA or NAMBA finalized any rules for gas tunnels regarding engines? As far as stock v modified and cc limits?

I'd hate to buy a simple stock zenoah just toget blown away buy Quickdraws. I'd also hate to spend the money on a Quickdraw, then find out I can't run it .

Thank You
 
No final decisions that I am aware of.

The gas tunnel is a class that is coming on. We have had quite a bit of interest in the WoodStuff WOF tunnels and I see that James has been getting interest in the German designed boat.

Bill
 
I have'nt given up on the testing of my aeromarine predator, will be getting back to it sometime in july-august

Steve Hearl
 
With the knowledge that James at OER has 6 of these 1/4 scale boats already spoken for, added with the more than a half dozen that are already out there and the ones that we have on order, I would hope that we can get some initial guidelines (not necessarily hard written rules) put in place so that we all kind of go in the same direction from the start. Which is much better than us all going in different directions and then trying to get them all lined back up to make a race.

With now more than 18 of these boats around (ok they will be around soon enough) and the WORLD TUNNEL NATS only 9 months away we should get talking about this again.

Just my .02

Bill
 
Just back from Celina race. Bob Kensill brought out a 48" plug that he built some 8 +/- years ago. He is now going to finish it and build it up as a gasser. Nice looking boat so far. Can't wait to see the outcome. Tried to run my gasser after the race completed, but must have been sucking water and killed it twice going into turn one.. Going a different route to stop the water splash into the intake.
 
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Wish it would have done better for you man.....I'd like to have seen it run some laps :D very nice boat!!

Keep pluggin away guys...it'll be a class before long!

Dan Brandon
 
Yes, I am aware of that and I also talked on here about a proposed set of rules. I know that Kevin Sheren (sp?) has a copy of the proposal that I and a couple of others worked on..... but not sure where the progress stands on any of it.....

However, a handful of people that may or may not have had these boats at the time may have missed something that the now 18+ boat owners may want to allow or disallow or at the very least discuss.

With all of the interest in the 1/4 tunnels recently, I thought it might be a good time to wake up the discussion again and try to make sure that we all have some guidelines to go by to prepare for the WORLD TUNNEL NATS in March '08. At this point, there are no rules, so any hull with a gas engine of any size with unlimited modifications are legal which makes it a class where the guy with the biggest budget wins and the size of the class will be hampered.

Thanks for bringing the link up of JD's proposal, here is a link to the proposal that I and a few others were working on http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showto...p;hl=gas+tunnel the two are at the very least a good starting point for us all to look at and discuss.

Thanks

Bill
 
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So guys, what is the consensus? Should we start hashing out rules or what? I know we will have rules for the class in 2008 at the World Tunnel Champs, but they will be lenient as we dont want to not include someone that may have a boat already built.

As far as I know, this race is the only race that has the 1/4 scale Gas Tunnels, is this correct or has there been other sanctioned races that have run them?

I am fairly certain we will use the info provided on these forums to formulate our rules for the Gas Class at the World Tunnel Champs, so now is your chance to voice that opinion.

I will repost what Bill and Mike posted on the old thread here. This is a good place to start, but would also like to here from some of the Gas Expert guys, i.e. Kevin Sheren, or anyone else who has some solid knowledge on gas classes.

Here is the first propsal by Mike and Bill:

Here are some ideas that Mike Crawford and I put together, the ideas basically come directly out of some of the other gas and nitro class rules. We have compiled the ones that we believe fit the intent and spirit of the Large Scale Gas Tunnel Class.

Large Scale Gasoline Outboard Tunnel Class

Purpose

The intent of the “LS” Gasoline Outboard Tunnel Racing class is to provide a gasoline racing class for the outboard tunnel class with the emphasis on scale appearance rather than ultimate speed. The engine restrictions are intended to equalize performance

Hull Specifications

1. The large scale gasoline outboard tunnel class shall use tunnel boats only and maintain the basic hull lines of quarter scale tunnels 36” to 50”.

2. The large scale gasoline outboard tunnel class shall not lock down the engine or use any auxiliary steering system.

Engine Specifications

1. The intent of this class is to utilize commercially manufactured gasoline powered 2 and 4 cycle engines

2. Engines must be standard factory production with a minimum of 100 units available for sale to the general public. To be eligible for the International Regatta the engines must have been offered for sale to the general public not less than ninety (90) days prior to that year’s International Regatta

3. These engines may be started with a recoil, pull or electric starter. Clutches are not mandatory, but those engines not equipped with a clutch must be stopped completely with transmitter controls.

4. The engine must use a spark plug type ignition. No glow plug or compression induced combustion allowed. All engines must have a positive off-on switch, or in lieu of this switch, the primary ignition lead must be removed from the spark plug except when in the pits, out of the spectator area, or in preparation for racing.

5. Any size or brand name of carburetor may be used. All engines must be normally aspirated and have a piston ported or reed valve fuel induction system.

6. All engines must have a canister muffler, custom exhaust system or tuned pipes.

7. The engine external parts shall remain as originally manufactured within series except as shown in Part 3. Clarification: No water-cooled engine parts shall be used with air-cooled engine parts. Common engine parts that are used on both engines models may be interchanged. Slide valve exhaust adapters may not be used with carburetor equipped engines.

8. The following exceptions will be allowed in the Large Scale Gasoline Outboard Tunnel specifications.

• Adhesives (loctite), set screws and jam nuts

• Any carb linkage arms

• Any motor mount

• Any spark plug

• Any type of steering arm

• Any flywheel nut

• The lower unit below the cavitation plate may be trimmed, sharpened or polished. No material shall be added to the lower unit.

• Adjustable mixture controls will be allowed, however the original needle valve must remain in its original position.

Engine Classes

Classes Cubic Inch Displacement Cubic Centimeter Displacement

LS27 up to 1.647cid maximum 27.0cc maximum

LS36 1.648 thru 2.196cid maximum 36.0cc maximum

Formulas CC x .61 = CID CID divided by .061 = CC

Fuel

1. Pump gasoline and your choice of oil mix shall be used. No nitro additives allowed in all gas engine classes

Racing Rules

1. Racing rules will conform to the IMPBA, Contest and Racing Rules, Classes and Courses (1/4 & 1/3 mile).

2. At the IMPBA International Regatta all classes will run for 6 laps.

3. IMPBA clubs hosting outboard races may change the number of laps for the above classes upon notification to the contestants 14 days prior to the date of the published event.

Optional Noise Ordinance

This option sets the standards by which noise levels will be measured and recorded. In the event that clubs or districts decide to exercise this option, it shall be posted on their flyer, time trial notice, or other Sanctioned Event.

1. Decibel limits will be determined by a Sound Measuring Device (Radio Shack or similar device).

2. Measuring will be performed with the boat running at idle, at the shoreline, facing sideways. The measuring device at a distance of fifty feet (50 feet) and at a vertical height of not more than four (4 ft) feet above the ground. The check will be confirmed when the driver runs the boat at full throttle.

3. The maximum decibel reading shall be 92 decibels or less on the “C” scale.

Special Note:

Sites requiring such noise limiting requirements at sanctioned events (local or national), shall post the following statement clearly on each race flyer, or media use for publications and/or distribution. Noise restrictions are in affect at this event.

Safety Precautions

1. Sand containers shall be present and used as a depository of racers contaminated fuel. This shall be the responsibility of the host club who will also provide disposal of such fuel

2. An area shall be roped off from spectators and other racers to use as an engine test area

3. Fire extinguishers must be located in the pit area and engine test areas as well.

Bill Van Kirk

His and Hers Hobbies

Mike Crawford

Wood Stuff Outboards
OK guys, tear it apart, embrace it, change it, tweak it. It would be nice if we coupld post the set of rule that was in JD's post also as a comparison. Jerry, do you or anyone else still have this proposed set of rules?

Lastly, lets try to keep this civil, its ok to agree to disagree. We are all adults.

~James
 
I have a copy of the rules as they were proposed by Jay Selby for NAMBA (the ones that JD was refering to)... I will try to find them and post them.

The only change that I would actually like to make is to allow the removal of the pull start and the installation of the nose cone for electric starter.... this in my opinion is the only way to start these things on an outboard. I refered to the electric start in line #3, but later it states that the external parts must remain as manufactured.....

Bill
 
I also agree about the pull start, they suck on an outboard. Mine will certainly have starter cones.

Please post those other rules up when you get them. I could not find my set.

~James
 
Yeah, I broke the servo arm on mine 3 times in a row prior to getting it started the first time.... The sullivan starter on 24 volts doesn't even strain to turn the engine over..... Just touch it to the nose cone and its running

Bill
 
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When I get time I'll reread the rules. Busy moving Kristi out to my place at the moment. And I agree with the pull start can be switched over to a nose cone.. Since the lower is locked in place via the carry box, I'm not too concerned with breaking servo arms. But then again, I do lose those arms to Bill when he does :lol:
 
If I understand right, in these rules "engine" is not only meant as "powerhead", but also the lower unit makes part of it.

I think - at least at this moment - this means there is no legal lower, because than the lower unit must be "standard factory production with a minimum of 100 units available for sale to the general public" as well.

Therefore my proposal is to accept homemade lowers as well.

If yes you may count me in to your list of happy working 1/4 scale gas outboard tunnels as well.

I also know only in The Netherlands there are 3 more people with a proven homemade working setup and I know 5 more people that are very close to realy "dip" theirs for the first time.

Please also be aware that (just like U.I.M. proved) the thicker you make the rule book the shorter the list of participants get !

Eddy
 
The engine idea was originally thought of as just the power head as nobody as you pointed out makes a complete unit.... So in order to keep the guy with a complete machine shop from making a monster motor that nobody else has access to, we thought it important to call it a readily available to the public engine.... (all of the rules were simply pulled out of the large scale gas rule book and then refined to work with the outboards.

I would say that any lower is allowed as well as long as it remains as a 1:1 ratio. 1 turn of the engine equals 1 turn of the propeller. Geared lower units giving more RPM at the propeller than the engine is capable of turning should not be allowed in my opinion.

I agree with the size of the rule book statement. I would hope that we can keep this as simple as possible and get out to have some great racing with as many entries as possible.

Bill
 
Here is the first propsal by Mike and Bill:

Here are some ideas that Mike Crawford and I put together, the ideas basically come directly out of some of the other gas and nitro class rules. We have compiled the ones that we believe fit the intent and spirit of the Large Scale Gas Tunnel Class.

Large Scale Gasoline Outboard Tunnel Class

Hull Specifications

1. The large scale gasoline outboard tunnel class shall use tunnel boats only and maintain the basic hull lines of quarter scale tunnels 36” to 50”.

James if I'm not mistaken, the Ossi hulls that you are selling are around 52-53in. long which would put them outside of the proposed limit. With the increasing number of people aquiring these hulls, this measurement should be changed to say 36"-55" to give a little more flexibility.

~Mitch
 
We also need to decide what the class will be called ???? is it going to be 1/4 scale tunnel or will it be open gas tunnel. I know that some of us are going for scale appearence. Or will it be LSG open tunnel. And yes Mitch makes a very good point about boat length just as the gentlman stated in another post about the foots / lower units as it stands now The G Drive and the Aussi foots are not legel now don't get me wrong I am sure Greg and Fred can make a hundred units but they do not have a hundred sitting on the shelf now.
 
We also need to decide what the class will be called ???? is it going to be 1/4 scale tunnel or will it be open gas tunnel. I know that some of us are going for scale appearence. Or will it be LSG open tunnel. And yes Mitch makes a very good point about boat length just as the gentlman stated in another post about the foots / lower units as it stands now The G Drive and the Aussi foots are not legel now don't get me wrong I am sure Greg and Fred can make a hundred units but they do not have a hundred sitting on the shelf now.
If I'm not mistaken,the lowers would not be considered part of the engine.So,most lowers would be acceptable as long as they are 1:1 ratio.

But I am concerned about the lengths of different boats.Since there are so many German tunnels in existence and more coming ,we need to make sure they're legal also.

James,

What are the demensions of Peters tunnels?

Thanks!
 
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I was actually thinking about this today, and just got a PM concerning this. IMPBA has a maximum boat limit of 60inches, so why dont we just use that? I like the idea of the minimum, what does everyone else think?

Dont want to make any existing boats not legal before we even get this thing started. We would be shooting our selves in the foot.

Walt, I think the hulls are 53 inches long, I am honestly not sure about the exact demensions. I will put in an email to Peter to get specifics.

Tony, break out the ruler and give us some specs!

I also agree with Tony, would be nice to have some sort of rule to keep the boats scale looking. I dont think we should get too specific, such as with 1/8 scale hydro, but should maybe keep it more like the sport 20/40 boats. Ficticious or real "team" paint schemes, or something..... just rambling.

~James
 
My 2 cents since Crawfords boats and it looks like Kenssel boats are 48 in length we should go with that as a minumin in length or 45 to inspire new hull designs and go with the 60 inch for maximum. any style flex shaft lower to keep it 1to1 like walt said. As far as motors go I don't think we should get to technacle as far as stock mod or what have you. If you want to spend 500 bucks and get a Butch motor have at it the hulls are only going to handle so much power. I really do not think any of us are running stock motors :) but I could be wrong. Like Carl stated in another post let the builder do or add what ever it takes to make the boat run and let's all have big fun with our big boats.
 
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