Gas engine class(es)

[waltr]

So far so good.

Here's a page from the rule book on gas engines.

I would like to see the 27cc max if we could with the XLS rules.

And thanks for defining the lowers.Now I can build both types.

Engine Classification

General Engine Rules for the (LS) Engine Classes

Engine Cubic Inch Cubic Centimeter

Classes Displacement Displacement

LS27 Up to 1.647cid maximum 27.0000 cc maximum

LS36 1.648cid thru 2.196 cid maximum 36.0000 cc maximum

Formulas CC x .061 = CID CID divided by .061 = CC

1. The intent of this class is to utilize commercially manufactured gasoline powered 2 and 4 cycle

engines.

2. Each engine must have a working throttle control and the engine must be set up to be completely

stopped with the transmitter controls.

3. Internal and external modifications may be made to the engine’s major and or minor parts. However,

the cylinder and head assembly must be a single unit. No removable heads and/or head buttons

are allowed.

4. The engine must use a spark plug type ignition. No glow plug or compression induced combustion

allowed. All engines must have a positive off-on switch, or in lieu of this switch, the primary

ignition lead must be removed from the spark plug except when in the pits, out of the spectator

area, or in preparation for racing.

5. Any size or brand name of carburetor may be used. All engines must be normally aspirated and

have a piston ported or reed valve fuel induction system on the 2 cycle engines and a cam operated

valve fuel induction on the 4 cycle engines.

6. All engines must have a canister muffler, custom muffled exhaust system or tuned pipe.

XLS

General Engine Rules for the (XLS) Engine Classes

Engine Cubic Inch Cubic Centimeter

Classes Inch Displacement Displacement

XLS27 1.647 cid maximum 27.0000 cc maximum

XLS36 1.648cid thru 2.196 cid maximum 36.0000 cc maximum

Formulas CC x .061 = CID CID divided by .061 = CC

1. The intent of this class is to utilize gasoline powered 2 and 4 cycle engines that do not meet

the LS class engine rules.

2. Each engine must have a working throttle control and the engine must be set up to be

completely stopped with the transmitter controls.

3. Any and all modifications may be made to the engine. The cylinder and head may be a

multi-piece assembly and head buttons are allowed.

4. The engine must use a spark plug type ignition. No glow plug or compression induced

combustion allowed. All engines must have a positive on-off switch, or in lieu of this switch,

the primary ignition lead must be removed from the spark plug except when in the pits, out

of the spectator area, or in preparation for racing.

5. Any size or brand name carburetor may be used. Fuel induction may be piston ported,

reed valve, rotor valve, cam operated valve, etc.

6. All engines must have a canister muffler, custom muffled exhaust system or tuned pipe.

 

[Gator 340]

Bill that is excactly what I was thinkin why not just use the Mono rule as far as for the engines and make the foots any brand or design as long as the public can purchase them. With that said I do not mean that Pat Mulvany has to build a 100 foots BUT if some one is enterested in his design he would have to be able/willing to build one for them.

I believe we are all ok with the hull sizes so why don't we think about calling it LSG 23 to 30 Out Board tunnel

 

[waltr]

Look at the XLS 270 rules.Best suited for our needs.

 

[Gator 340]

Look at the XLS 270 rules.Best suited for our needs.

Yes sir Mr Walt you are corect that the XLS rules do meet our needs I only sugested LSG for what it stands for

Large Scale Gas that way we can try and keep it a scale appearing boat Fictus or real. and we can also look at having some sort of concourse award for those who have Pictures of full size tunnels that they replecated.

I have to say that I am Dam proud to be a tunnel boater and be part of a sivil conversation in decideing what is best for this new class.

 

[rcpilotbill]

I agree.... I think we have some pretty complete guidelines in which we can all build our boats!!

I too am extremely pleased that we all put together a set of guidelines/rules that will suit all of us without anyone jumping off in any one direction.... don't you wish all rules discussions could go this easily?

I will take all of the responses from this post and put them all in to one post so we can see what the rules package would look like with all the thoughts here represented.

Bill

 

[waltr]

Bill,

Earlier in our posts there was a question about stumble blocks in the tunnel because of appearence.

I'm hoping that we can run them,leave them in and also add them into the rule package so later on there are no issues.

I'd much rather see the boats handle better than look better in the tunnel area.Plus I'd just hate to have to hack them out of the Woodstuffs.

 

[rcpilotbill]

I agree Walt,

The stumble blocks whould be allowed as they are allowed on the nitro versions.... I would believe they should be legal on the gas version as well.

Bill

 

[rcpilotbill]

Ok, I think I have all of the ideas introduced here included here, if I have forgotten anything please let me know and I can make changes.... The items in red are the changes to the original document other than the items that were completely removed.

Large Scale Gasoline Outboard Tunnel Class

Purpose

The intent of the “LS” Gasoline Outboard Tunnel Racing class is to provide a gasoline racing class for the outboard tunnel class with the emphasis on handling and scale appearance rather than ultimate speed. The engine restrictions are intended to equalize performance

Hull Specifications

1. The large scale gasoline outboard tunnel class shall use tunnel boats only and maintain the basic hull lines of quarter scale tunnels 45” to 60”.

2. Stumble blocks are allowed.

3. The large scale gasoline outboard tunnel class shall not lock down the engine or use any auxiliary steering system.

4. To aid in keeping a more scale appearance, fictitious team or real team paint schemes are ENCOURAGED

Engine Specifications

1. The intent of this class is to utilize commercially manufactured gasoline powered 2 and 4 cycle engines

2. Engines must be standard factory production with a minimum of 100 units available for sale to the general public. To be eligible for the International Regatta the engines must have been offered for sale to the general public not less than ninety (90) days prior to that year’s International Regatta

3. Any lower unit production or homemade geared, direct or cable driven allowed.

4. These engines may be started with a recoil, pull or cone for use with an electric starter. Clutches are not mandatory, but those engines not equipped with a clutch must be stopped completely with transmitter controls.

4. The engine must use a spark plug type ignition. No glow plug or compression induced combustion allowed. All engines must have a positive off-on switch, or in lieu of this switch, the primary ignition lead must be removed from the spark plug except when in the pits, out of the spectator area, or in preparation for racing.

5. Any size or brand name of carburetor may be used. All engines must be normally aspirated and have a piston ported or reed valve fuel induction system.

6. All engines must have a canister muffler, custom exhaust system or tuned pipes.

7. The engine external parts shall remain as originally manufactured within series except as shown in Part 3. Clarification: No water-cooled engine parts shall be used with air-cooled engine parts. Common engine parts that are used on both engines models may be interchanged. Slide valve exhaust adapters may not be used with carburetor equipped engines.

• Adjustable mixture controls will be allowed, however the original needle valve must remain in its original position.

Engine Classes

Classes Cubic Inch Displacement Cubic Centimeter Displacement

LS27 up to 1.647cid maximum 27.0cc maximum

LS36 1.648 thru 2.196cid maximum 36.0cc maximum

Formulas CC x .61 = CID CID divided by .061 = CC

Fuel

1. Pump gasoline and your choice of oil mix shall be used. No nitro additives allowed in all gas engine classes

Racing Rules

1. Racing rules will conform to the IMPBA, Contest and Racing Rules, Classes and Courses (1/4 & 1/3 mile).

2. At the IMPBA International Regatta all classes will run for 6 laps.

3. IMPBA clubs hosting outboard races may change the number of laps for the above classes upon notification to the contestants 14 days prior to the date of the published event.

Optional Noise Ordinance

This option sets the standards by which noise levels will be measured and recorded. In the event that clubs or districts decide to exercise this option, it shall be posted on their flyer, time trial notice, or other Sanctioned Event.

1. Decibel limits will be determined by a Sound Measuring Device (Radio Shack or similar device).

2. Measuring will be performed with the boat running at idle, at the shoreline, facing sideways. The measuring device at a distance of fifty feet (50 feet) and at a vertical height of not more than four (4 ft) feet above the ground. The check will be confirmed when the driver runs the boat at full throttle.

3. The maximum decibel reading shall be 92 decibels or less on the “C” scale.

Special Note:

Sites requiring such noise limiting requirements at sanctioned events (local or national), shall post the following statement clearly on each race flyer, or media use for publications and/or distribution. Noise restrictions are in affect at this event.

Safety Precautions

1. Sand containers shall be present and used as a depository of racers contaminated fuel. This shall be the responsibility of the host club who will also provide disposal of such fuel

2. An area shall be roped off from spectators and other racers to use as an engine test area

3. Fire extinguishers must be located in the pit area and engine test areas as well.

Let me know if I missed anything

Bill

 

[MarkScott]

I've got the Aero, plan on building a WOF, with a mod 260 Zenoah on a Lawless lower. Don't see any issue with which lower can be used, as long as it available to the public for purchase.

 

[waltr]

Bill,

Are you thinking of 2 classes,LS27 And LS36? The rules show 2 engine classes.

And by the way,good luck with the little Hummingbird.They're great boats

Mark,

I don't think the lowers have to be available to the public.

Homemades are allowed.It looks like anything goes.

 

[MarkScott]

Walt,

When I posted that, I was on page 2.. Guess I need to read the whole thing before adding a comment.

As for stumble blocks, all for them. On my WOF's, I'll be using full length inside spray rails over the SB's. This is the style of the full size boats, used them before with good luck.. Hope this will be allowed into the rules. Believe the OSSI boat has these built in the molds.

 

[rcpilotbill]

Actually I had forgotten that was in there... I would think that the LS27 specs would fit all of us that have spoken up.

We can change the stumble block to say full length or spray rails allowed.... should this be added or re-worded? What does everyone else think?

Thanks Walt, I am really looking forward to the Hummingbird... I saw one run earlier this year in Jackson and new that I had to get one

Unfortunately for me the money spent there means my gas tunnel stays stock for a few more months..... was gonna get the engine woke up, but..... had to have this thing

Bill

 

[MarkScott]

Fuel
1. Pump gasoline and your choice of oil mix shall be used. No nitro additives allowed in all gas engine classes

How will it be handled when Coleman fuel is being used? I've never used it, but know it is being used in lue of pump fuel.

 

[rcpilotbill]

When I asked this question, I was told that it would not be legal as it is not legal in all other gas classes.... Yes, I do run it in my tunnel and all of my airplanes, but once we actually have rules in place if it is not legal, it wont be run any longer.....

There is a performance increase that I have noticed in the airplanes.... the main reason that I use it is the simple fact that it does not smell like gas in my car while transporting and when I have an accidental spill on myself or my car, again no smell.

Personally, I would vote to allow it but am not overly concerned about it one way or another.

Bill

 

[MarkScott]

Bill, hope you didn't feel I was pointing fingers.. Last thing on my mind. I've read on another web site (RCU) that many of them use it. Don't know if they race or not.. Believe they use it for the same reason you state, smell in vehicle. Just tossing ideas out to keep the conversation going!

On the other side, I've seen gassers add nitro.. How can that be checked and controlled? If at all possible..

See ya in July.. Oh yea, Walt stated he plans on coming up. That will make 3 Gassers!!!!

 

[Don Ferrette]

I've been watching this thread with great interest & so far looks good with one small exception. Rule #6 should read more like this-

6. All engines must have a canister muffler, custom muffled exhaust system or tuned pipe with add on muffler.

In it's current version it is possible for someone to exploit that good 'ol "gray area" and attempt to run an unmuffled pipe.

Also eliminate the "Optional Noise Ordinance" section completely as this is left over from before the 92dB limit was imposed, it is no longer "optional".

Great job so far gang! B)

 

[rcpilotbill]

Nope I didnt figure any finger pointing, the question has to be asked.... I would personally like to be able to use it, but what does everyone else think.

Bill

 

[jaxracer]

Nope I didnt figure any finger pointing, the question has to be asked.... I would personally like to be able to use it, but what does everyone else think.
Bill

I'd have to say no just for the simple fact that it is not allowed in the other gas classes. Not to mention, as you said it gives a noticable performance increase which would put newbies to the class at a disadvantage assuming that you run pump gas in a gas engine.

~Mitch

 

[Don Ferrette]

Nope I didnt figure any finger pointing, the question has to be asked.... I would personally like to be able to use it, but what does everyone else think.
Bill

I'd have to say no just for the simple fact that it is not allowed in the other gas classes. Not to mention, as you said it gives a noticable performance increase which would put newbies to the class at a disadvantage assuming that you run pump gas in a gas engine.

~Mitch

John Finch & Steve Speas did a bunch of testing on radar & consistently found the Coleman type fuel was 2/10ths MPH slower than regular gasoline. It might be better in the planes but zero gains in the boats folks. It also makes the motors a little tougher to start in cold weather. Personally I think the Coleman type "white gas" should be legal. What the heck, you've already got people cheating by adding nitro to the gas knowing full well nobody will ever test their fuel because it's ridiculously expensive to do so. **** shame people got to be like that. :angry:

 

[Gator 340]

Every things looks ok to me so far. BUT i was talking with my Scale buddy Randy and I think that Don will agree if we use the word SCALE than all boats must be to scale with a picture of ther real boat it was scaled after. So like Gabe stated earlier in the post we have to go with the word SPORT that way we can go both direction scale and fictional scale.