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Phil you need to re-read my format a little more carefully. The championship round is not just one heat & it is a VALID Internats alternative format. Besides even if it was just one heat you of all people show be used to that as it would be just like a Scale class final by the regular scale heat racing format. ;)
Don, where is the format proposal?

More heat racing for the top dogs would be interesting, top 6 for at least 3 more rounds.

Even if you didnt quaify it would be worth it to stay and just watch.

Maybe that would be too much time for all classes.

PHIL
 
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Phil you need to re-read my format a little more carefully. The championship round is not just one heat & it is a VALID Internats alternative format. Besides even if it was just one heat you of all people show be used to that as it would be just like a Scale class final by the regular scale heat racing format. ;)
Don, where is the format proposal?

More heat racing for the top dogs would be interesting, top 6 for at least 3 more rounds.

Even if you didnt quaify it would be worth it to stay and just watch.

Maybe that would be too much time for all classes.

PHIL
Phil I'll e-mail you a copy when I get home. :)
 
I have always enjoyed Indy's Hydro Master's format....it combines a "timed" event and lots of heat racing....it's a true test to determine a National Champion.....

My 2 cents anyways....

Steve Pas
 
Has anyone even considered a points series?

In all foramts of racing a US-1 crown or points leader of any type of sport runs thru a poinys series not just a one week event taht seems to be costly to alot of folks.

Why not pick 5-6 clubs thru out the IBS and amke it a national points series for big crown of ea class. I chose 5-6 it could be more if more wish to travel to various ponds and such. But it attracts boaters to ea club that would host an event it would level the playing field a bit not to say home guys has an advantage but it spreads out the home team advantage. Not everyone will make all races and thats the thing you may miss one here but the other guy leading may miss one another mos and so on.

This is the only sanctioned body I know crowns and true champ on a one week event. Not a single sport out there in the real world races one race plays one game and so on crowns a champion on one event so why should you guys?

Tradition is Tradition I understand but now look what you have no one stepping up to take on the task to host this one big event where if it was broken down across the entire yr for different clubs to host one points race then it's more managable takes less time to setup and run and can be done again in one weekend.

Just look at home many boats atlanta runs thru there spring nats ea yr.

Guys/Gals it can be done and think outside the box and make a real game plain.

James
 
Dick, Chris, Joe, and Marty

You have all said some very good things about the Internat format. I thougth that I would include something that I place in one of the Roostertails last year on what is US-1. At the Internats this year I had a lot of racers come to me and tell me that they had never thought about what US-1 is. I also had a lot of racers that came to me and told me that they like what I said and that I was able to draw the true meaning of what US-1 is. So here it is enjoy it and I think that you will have a better understanding.

What is US – 1

US – 1 is the results of what makes a well-rounded boater. There has been some talk of trying to add an alternate format for the Internats. Their reasons are it will make the Internats shorter. Well this idea will not make the Internats any shorter.

In 2004 we had 155 heats with 223 boats for the first two days and 135 heats with 175 boats, for the next two days for a total of 290 Heats / 398 Boats in US-1 Heats. Specialty had 60 heats with 70 boats for a Grand total of 350 Heats / 468 Boats.

In 2005 we had 130 heats with 177 boats for the first two days and 100 heats with 116 boats for

the next two days for a total of 230 Heats / 293 Boats in US-1 Heats. Specialty had 80 heats with 100 boats for a Grand Total of 310 Heats / 393 Boats.

We started early on Sunday morning and went for four days hard from early morning to late afternoon just to run the heats for all of the classes. Now in the new format that they want to do is they will run the top 6 boats in all of the classes for so many rounds. I am sure that it would be no less than three rounds. So that means that on Thursday morning you would start the run off rounds. You might get done that afternoon and you might not so that means that you would go into Friday. Now if you get rid of the specialty boat classes and do away with the banquet you might be done on Friday afternoon. In 2004 and 2005 we finish the Internats at about 1:00pm on Saturday afternoon. Now how much time did we save?

Well I think that you get the point. The main reason why we should not change our format is the fact that it will destroy the integrity of US – 1 even though they are going to call it National Championships. If you want a National Champion go race in NAMBA. Not saying that there is anything wrong with NAMBA but our US – 1 is what makes us different from NAMBA. The reason why we have US – 1 is it shows the results of a well-rounded boater by first having to place well in heat racing. Next by having to perform well in the Trophy Trials, which are straightaway and oval timed events. The ones that have won US –1 over the years know how hard it is to win. It has never been a giveaway or will it ever be. I myself have only won US –1 once in all of the years that I have been racing. I have been very close at times but I always seem to fall a little short. Last year was as close that I have been in many years. But a stick that I hit in oval trials made for a poor performance and blowing a glow plug in the straightaway trials cost me US – 1. Going into the straightaway trials the points spread was very close. I had a total of 969 points, the second place racer had 900 points, and the third place racer had 875 points. Of course you know what I just told you what happen to me the second place racer had his share of bad luck or bad runs also. So the third place racer had a good run on both events and went on to win his first ever US – 1. And he has been boating for thirty years and has been to at lease twenty-five Internats. Sure it takes good running hardware, smart driving, and a little luck to get thru the heat racing. But after you make the program it is all you to make it happen and no one else. This is why US – 1 is what it is and why it is so special to win. We have had racer from all over the world come to the Internats to try to win US – 1. This is why we are the INTERNATIONAL MODEL POWER BOAT ASSOCIATION. We are the only organization that offers this kind of award so when this award is past out it truly means that this person is US – 1 of the world.

Here are some comments that a couple of boaters that have won US – 1 over the years have to say. The first boater has won US – 1 many times in the past but he is one of the most focus racers that I know and works very hard to achieve what he has done.

US-1 means the best boat and the best boat racer at that given time. If this contest is reduced to just heat racing, I think we have suffered a loss. There have been some times that I have seen racers just putt to score points and have ended up with US-1. We all try to race too hard to score those heat racing points and not given a chance what that boat can really do. Time trials balance this effort. This would be loss if it is only heat racing.

Stuart Barr

I am a very strong believer in this. Please do not lower the integrity of this event.

The second boater is the one that won his first US – 1 last year when it slip thru my hands. He is also my best friend and racing partner and has been for over twenty-five years. He also is the one that help write the rules and push to bring outboards into the IMPBA when he was on the board as a Director of District 5.

I have been asked to comment on the format of the IMPBA National event because of a possible proposal to change the format. I AM OPPOSED TO A CHANGE IN THE FORMAT OF THE “NATS”

I have been attending the Nats almost every year for the last 20+ years. I find the Nats to be the best racing that one can experience in the Model boat hobby. It is vary difficult to EARN a US-1. I finally after 20yrs, earned an US-1 at Jackson Tenn. in F-hydro.

The Nats are unique and bring out the best in model boat racing. It is truly the “Decathlon” of model boat racing. One needs to have good and reliable equipment, be excellent at heat racing, be patient and let the race come to you, and have the experience and strategy to place high in heat racing to qualify for the trophy events.

Once qualified, experience and expertise become paramount in order to be successful in winning US-1. It is like the Olympics; you have prepared and ready to show what you and your boat are capable of doing in oval time trials and straight away. The pressure is on, no excuses in these events. Experience, strategy, excellent equipment, steady nerves are all at work to have a successful outcome.

The way the points are award for heat racing and the trophy trials is excellent, well thought out, appropriate and have STOOD THE TEST OF TIME. To change the format would be a disaster.

In the past other formats have been tried. A boater who no longer is an active racer proposed a format of just heat racing. It was tried at the NATS that were held in Slidell. The experience was like KISSING YOUR UGLY SISTER. It was JUST ANOTHER HEAT RACE. I believe those that are regular attendees at the NATS are not interested in attending just another heat race.

Do to the need to qualify; the heat racing is the best that I have experienced in 25 yrs of racing. Close racing, great driving and the best experience one can have. It is a race where people come from everywhere in North America and from overseas because of the Nats format and the experience of the Nats that cannot be gotten from just ANOTHER heat race.

Since that Nats is not broken and I believe the vast majority that attend and support and HAVE SUPPORTED the Nats for YEARS, LEAVE IT ALONE!

There are other areas in IMPBA that need attention and work. The NATS is not one of them.

Gary ( Doc ) Turner

Now I believe you can see why US – 1 is so special. To win this award is to be the best well rounded boater in the world. And to change it would be just like Doc said it would be JUST ANOTHER HEAT RACE or like KISSING YOUR UGLY SISTER.

Mark Bullard
 
Mark,

Not one person is saying to change the format. We are saying to add an optional format. I believe everyone (or at least most) like the current format.... it's pretty cool. There needs to be something in place for the clubs that want to host the event, but can't due to lake size/timing equiptment/surveying etc. Every year it seem to be a problem finding a club wanting to put on the event. This year there isn't a club stepping up to put on the event. Why?
 
Dick, Chris, Joe, and Marty

You have all said some very good things about the Internat format. I thougth that I would include something that I place in one of the Roostertails last year on what is US-1. At the Internats this year I had a lot of racers come to me and tell me that they had never thought about what US-1 is. I also had a lot of racers that came to me and told me that they like what I said and that I was able to draw the true meaning of what US-1 is. So here it is enjoy it and I think that you will have a better understanding.

What is US – 1

US – 1 is the results of what makes a well-rounded boater. There has been some talk of trying to add an alternate format for the Internats. Their reasons are it will make the Internats shorter. Well this idea will not make the Internats any shorter.

In 2004 we had 155 heats with 223 boats for the first two days and 135 heats with 175 boats, for the next two days for a total of 290 Heats / 398 Boats in US-1 Heats. Specialty had 60 heats with 70 boats for a Grand total of 350 Heats / 468 Boats.

In 2005 we had 130 heats with 177 boats for the first two days and 100 heats with 116 boats for

the next two days for a total of 230 Heats / 293 Boats in US-1 Heats. Specialty had 80 heats with 100 boats for a Grand Total of 310 Heats / 393 Boats.

We started early on Sunday morning and went for four days hard from early morning to late afternoon just to run the heats for all of the classes. Now in the new format that they want to do is they will run the top 6 boats in all of the classes for so many rounds. I am sure that it would be no less than three rounds. So that means that on Thursday morning you would start the run off rounds. You might get done that afternoon and you might not so that means that you would go into Friday. Now if you get rid of the specialty boat classes and do away with the banquet you might be done on Friday afternoon. In 2004 and 2005 we finish the Internats at about 1:00pm on Saturday afternoon. Now how much time did we save?

Well I think that you get the point. The main reason why we should not change our format is the fact that it will destroy the integrity of US – 1 even though they are going to call it National Championships. If you want a National Champion go race in NAMBA. Not saying that there is anything wrong with NAMBA but our US – 1 is what makes us different from NAMBA. The reason why we have US – 1 is it shows the results of a well-rounded boater by first having to place well in heat racing. Next by having to perform well in the Trophy Trials, which are straightaway and oval timed events. The ones that have won US –1 over the years know how hard it is to win. It has never been a giveaway or will it ever be. I myself have only won US –1 once in all of the years that I have been racing. I have been very close at times but I always seem to fall a little short. Last year was as close that I have been in many years. But a stick that I hit in oval trials made for a poor performance and blowing a glow plug in the straightaway trials cost me US – 1. Going into the straightaway trials the points spread was very close. I had a total of 969 points, the second place racer had 900 points, and the third place racer had 875 points. Of course you know what I just told you what happen to me the second place racer had his share of bad luck or bad runs also. So the third place racer had a good run on both events and went on to win his first ever US – 1. And he has been boating for thirty years and has been to at lease twenty-five Internats. Sure it takes good running hardware, smart driving, and a little luck to get thru the heat racing. But after you make the program it is all you to make it happen and no one else. This is why US – 1 is what it is and why it is so special to win. We have had racer from all over the world come to the Internats to try to win US – 1. This is why we are the INTERNATIONAL MODEL POWER BOAT ASSOCIATION. We are the only organization that offers this kind of award so when this award is past out it truly means that this person is US – 1 of the world.

Here are some comments that a couple of boaters that have won US – 1 over the years have to say. The first boater has won US – 1 many times in the past but he is one of the most focus racers that I know and works very hard to achieve what he has done.

US-1 means the best boat and the best boat racer at that given time. If this contest is reduced to just heat racing, I think we have suffered a loss. There have been some times that I have seen racers just putt to score points and have ended up with US-1. We all try to race too hard to score those heat racing points and not given a chance what that boat can really do. Time trials balance this effort. This would be loss if it is only heat racing.

Stuart Barr

I am a very strong believer in this. Please do not lower the integrity of this event.

The second boater is the one that won his first US – 1 last year when it slip thru my hands. He is also my best friend and racing partner and has been for over twenty-five years. He also is the one that help write the rules and push to bring outboards into the IMPBA when he was on the board as a Director of District 5.

I have been asked to comment on the format of the IMPBA National event because of a possible proposal to change the format. I AM OPPOSED TO A CHANGE IN THE FORMAT OF THE “NATS”

I have been attending the Nats almost every year for the last 20+ years. I find the Nats to be the best racing that one can experience in the Model boat hobby. It is vary difficult to EARN a US-1. I finally after 20yrs, earned an US-1 at Jackson Tenn. in F-hydro.

The Nats are unique and bring out the best in model boat racing. It is truly the “Decathlon” of model boat racing. One needs to have good and reliable equipment, be excellent at heat racing, be patient and let the race come to you, and have the experience and strategy to place high in heat racing to qualify for the trophy events.

Once qualified, experience and expertise become paramount in order to be successful in winning US-1. It is like the Olympics; you have prepared and ready to show what you and your boat are capable of doing in oval time trials and straight away. The pressure is on, no excuses in these events. Experience, strategy, excellent equipment, steady nerves are all at work to have a successful outcome.

The way the points are award for heat racing and the trophy trials is excellent, well thought out, appropriate and have STOOD THE TEST OF TIME. To change the format would be a disaster.

In the past other formats have been tried. A boater who no longer is an active racer proposed a format of just heat racing. It was tried at the NATS that were held in Slidell. The experience was like KISSING YOUR UGLY SISTER. It was JUST ANOTHER HEAT RACE. I believe those that are regular attendees at the NATS are not interested in attending just another heat race.

Do to the need to qualify; the heat racing is the best that I have experienced in 25 yrs of racing. Close racing, great driving and the best experience one can have. It is a race where people come from everywhere in North America and from overseas because of the Nats format and the experience of the Nats that cannot be gotten from just ANOTHER heat race.

Since that Nats is not broken and I believe the vast majority that attend and support and HAVE SUPPORTED the Nats for YEARS, LEAVE IT ALONE!

There are other areas in IMPBA that need attention and work. The NATS is not one of them.

Gary ( Doc ) Turner

Now I believe you can see why US – 1 is so special. To win this award is to be the best well rounded boater in the world. And to change it would be just like Doc said it would be JUST ANOTHER HEAT RACE or like KISSING YOUR UGLY SISTER.

Mark Bullard

" And that's all I have to say about that".

Forrest Gump

Well said, my friend.

Dick Tyndall
 
As far as the just another race idea. I do not believe this to be true.

The Kentucky Derby; Indy 500; Daytona 500 these are not just another race. No, they are special because of the competition that these races represent.

I do not think that you are taking away from the prestige of being number one as long as achieving number one cannot be done by luck or skating thru. Who likes to win a race when you are the only one to finish. You haven't won anything you just finished.

Like the suggestiuon was made - make some proposals that make sense and lets vote on them. Keep in mind the more entries that you have the greater the result.

Bob
 
I sure am getting tired of hearing all this crying about "lowering the integrity of the event". I don't see any of you even lifting a finger volunteering to hold the Internats. So who are any of you to say squat to anyone considering holding it about what format they might choose. Also it's funny how even the standard format places the emphasis on HEAT RACING. That is why you're heat race points get DOUBLED. And the crap about not having a chance to compete against everyone head to head is just that. IF you are GOOD enough to make the top 6 for the final 3 rounds you will be going head to head for THREE rounds with the best of the best. It is no different than making the cut for time trials, YOU NEED TO FINISH UP TOP TO QUALIFY EITHER WAY! You're either good enough to make the final dance or you're not, period. Rod sure made me start thinking when he said- "Looking at it from a different perspective,the IMPBA could well be drowning in its own tradition. In the past few years it has been a struggle to twist someones arm to commit to an Internats. What is wrong with the "traditional" picture that makes finding a Internats host so difficult??"

So how 'bout all you out there hell bent on this "integrity" trip, got an answer? :blink:
 
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1956 (almost the same age as the IMPBA)

MLB - 16 teams no DH no Wildcard, no playoffs, just the World Series, champions had to win 4 games

NFL - 12 Teams including (2) teams in Chicago, no wildcard, no Superbowl, winner had to win 1

NHL - 6 Teams, No regular Season overtime, no shootouts, (4) teams made the playoffs Stanley Cup winners had to win 8 games total.

NBA – 8 Teams including Rochester, Fort Wayne, Syracuse, St. Louis, No 3 point play, Philly had to win 7 games

NCAA Mens Basketball – 16 Teams Everybody was in the sweet 16

NASCAR - The Grand National 56 races including Chrysler-Dodge-Oldsmobile-Ford-Mercury-Chevrolet
 
What is your point Jacuzzi? The bottom line is that a heat race only Internat is a diluted event. It could still be the best heat race of the year but it would be short of having the legacy of the true Internat format that separates IMPBA from the rest of the world organizations. Are we looking for leasure or racing? I vote for racing. If a short format is needed to support IMPBA leasures then do it but do not call it US-1. A true Internat is an event were all competitors are allowed to run the timed events. Do away with special events as needed. Go back to the old ways, there's nothing wrong with that, and you will be surprised at how much interest and attendance you will generate. Tough it will be, but tough will be no matter what format is chosen.
 
Piston1

That a good point.That's why we go to races is to race not sit there and watch oval and straight away runs.

Dave Roach
 
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I am for leaving the format as is. Marty and others are right!!!!!!!! I have attended most of the Internats for the last 20 years. They are GREAT. The level of competiton and driving are the best that one can experience. It is the format that brings out the QUALITY in every respect. I did not earn my US-1 title in f-hydro until the Nats of 2005!!!!!!! It was an incredible feeling to have finally achieved the award. You will never get the same feeling with an ALL heat racing format.

The heat racing format was done at Slidell several years ago. Art McMeans proposed the change and it was tried. It was not well received. It was like KISSING YOUR SISTER. It immediately returned to the standard format. I think it is easy to forget history, It Was Tried and Did Not Succeed.

I think if you have not attended a Nats you should try it and you will love it. It is easy to suggest changes but one should try the existing format before jumping to another format. If you can stay for just 3-4 days you still have the oportunity to win heat racing in your class and get a nice trophy. The present format does not prevent one from having good heat racing competion for five heats per class.

As stated the all heat racing format is just as long as the present format. Slidell took the same number of days. Actually the host club makes a good bit of their money doing the time trials. John Equi for several years has helped the host club do the time trials and has done an excellent job.

The bottom line. I would not be in the best interest of IMPBA to change the Nats format, when it works and the majority who ATTEND like it. Gary
 
Anyone that doubts the prestege in the proposed alternate format only needed to see the Spring Nats Twin Shootout. I've never seen racers get so hyped up for a race in my life. I'm telling you that people like Joe Warren and Don we completely on edge and as a spectator I think it was the best race I've ever watched.

What Brian is proposing is just about the same. The only thing is everyone would get to experience the exitement.

Brian I had not planned to attend the Internats in 07 but if you do it, I'll be there.
 
What is your point Jacuzzi? The bottom line is that a heat race only Internat is a diluted event. It could still be the best heat race of the year but it would be short of having the legacy of the true Internat format that separates IMPBA from the rest of the world organizations. Are we looking for leasure or racing? I vote for racing. If a short format is needed to support IMPBA leasures then do it but do not call it US-1. A true Internat is an event were all competitors are allowed to run the timed events. Do away with special events as needed. Go back to the old ways, there's nothing wrong with that, and you will be surprised at how much interest and attendance you will generate. Tough it will be, but tough will be no matter what format is chosen.
Jose the Racing will be On in Dist 13 in 07. Lets see how fast the Spring Nats in Atlanta sells out this time.... for the 2007 spring event..... Many fast boaters will be lining the banks..... Because they know it will be ON....... when the props hit the water...... For those of you that Think you Want to Race? Come to Atlanta Spring Nationals Race 2007...... 2 - Day National Event....... Wide Open Racing..... How much shorter would you want it? :huh:

I sure am getting tired of hearing all this crying about "lowering the integrity of the event". I don't see any of you even lifting a finger volunteering to hold the Internats. So who are any of you to say squat to anyone considering holding it about what format they might choose. Also it's funny how even the standard format places the emphasis on HEAT RACING. That is why you're heat race points get DOUBLED. And the crap about not having a chance to compete against everyone head to head is just that. IF you are GOOD enough to make the top 6 for the final 3 rounds you will be going head to head for THREE rounds with the best of the best. It is no different than making the cut for time trials, YOU NEED TO FINISH UP TOP TO QUALIFY EITHER WAY! You're either good enough to make the final dance or you're not, period. Rod sure made me start thinking when he said- "Looking at it from a different perspective,the IMPBA could well be drowning in its own tradition. In the past few years it has been a struggle to twist someones arm to commit to an Internats. What is wrong with the "traditional" picture that makes finding a Internats host so difficult??"

So how 'bout all you out there hell bent on this "integrity" trip, got an answer? :blink:
Come on Don You spent 4 days in Atlanta Spring 2006 Racing. Just for a 2 day event... Hell you got there before Ralph & I did...... WE pulled out of Tennesee mid day Wednesday. You were there when I got there... 2007 I`ll be there for 4 days again... You think Wendy will accept our entries Now????? :lol: :lol:
 
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What is your point Jacuzzi? The bottom line is that a heat race only Internat is a diluted event. It could still be the best heat race of the year but it would be short of having the legacy of the true Internat format that separates IMPBA from the rest of the world organizations. Are we looking for leasure or racing? I vote for racing. If a short format is needed to support IMPBA leasures then do it but do not call it US-1. A true Internat is an event were all competitors are allowed to run the timed events. Do away with special events as needed. Go back to the old ways, there's nothing wrong with that, and you will be surprised at how much interest and attendance you will generate. Tough it will be, but tough will be no matter what format is chosen.

My point is that change occurs naturally through need or evoloution. Not too much stays the same. Its an alternative format, to try and attract a host club. If there were clubs and sites lined up with applications to host the Internats for the next 5 years we wouldnt really have too much to worry about would we? Unfortunately 10 months before July 2007 there is NO host club for 2007.. thats the NEED .Maybe the District 5 boys could get together form a racers group, submit a traditional Internats bid and end this discussion for another year.
 
Come on Don You spent 4 days in Atlanta Spring 2006 Racing. Just for a 2 day event... Hell you got there before Ralph & I did...... WE pulled out of Tennesee mid day Wednesday. You were there when I got there... 2007 I`ll be there for 4 days again... You think Wendy will accept our entries Now????? :lol: :lol:
Joe you're asolutely right & I'll do it again on '07. Four days with as much intensity or hype as one could stand!! Hell yeah I'll burn 4 instead of 12-14 vacation days for that feeling any day. B)

BTW- didn't it take almost THREE DAYS to complete the Internats timed events the last time it was done where everyone ran for a time? I also recall there used to be a per racer boat limit as well..... :rolleyes:
 
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Jose the Racing will be On in Dist 13 in 07. Lets see how fast the Spring Nats in Atlanta sells out this time.... for the 2007 spring event..... Many fast boaters will be lining the banks..... Because they know it will be ON....... when the props hit the water...... For those of you that Think you Want to Race? Come to Atlanta Spring Nationals Race 2007...... 2 - Day National Event....... Wide Open Racing..... How much shorter would you want it? :huh:
EXACTLY!!! Over three hundred boats in TWO days!! Some the most intense racing you will see instead of a bunch of people sitting around for two days watching one boat run at a time....... :rolleyes:
 
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