IMPBA Internats

[AWaddle322]

For those of you that were at the `03 Internat's the timed events were a waste of a day. The water conditions were too poor for anyone to get their boat up to speed. It would have been a worse day to even try to race as were a couple of other days but there isn't much that we can do to control the weather.

I haven't been to Celina but have some videos of races there. The rip-rap on the other side of the pond scares me as if a boat hits that, you might as well try to salvage what little would be left.

Ron,

This in only partly true. The oval part of it we all had perfect water. The saw part was as you describe.

I also agree with Marty and Dick. With what Joe W said: I disagree, Most either run hydros and or monos and it gives you more time to prepare the way it is.

You know the funny part is the people that bring this up are not even people that typically attend the nats.

Sincerely,

Allen Waddle

 

[Don Ferrette]

You know the funny part is the people that bring this up are not even people that typically attend the nats.

You think then maybe there's a reason they bring it up?

Regardless of the format I'm hoping one of these next Internats winds up a little closer to home so I can attend without giving up 75% of my paid time off as I sure miss going.....

 

[BigChuck]

Unfortunately there is not REAL fix to this debut. If you go to a heat racing format it is what we have here in ATL. And if you do it and not include the gas classes than you have driven the NAIL deeper Into the coffin. The Gas NATS are this VERY format.

This is what I was alluding to earlier. Combine the two or three. Include the FE and have WINNER TAKE ALL RUNOFFS AFTER you have CROWNED your individual class champions. This is the RACE that has been called for but no one has had the guts to DO!!!

We have a full plate in April. But this very same information has been given to a few people.

No one will know Until they try. There are a thousand names. "Ultimate Championships",whatever.

Wouldn't we all like to get it out in the open and settle it on the water just this one TIME!!!

The US-1 will never be lost,or replaced. But if no one makes the effort to bring all of impba racing back together it will only get futher apart. And if no one likes the results. The orginal format is still in place and US-1 as currently scored is waiting.

 

[Chris Wood]

the 2000 nats we hosted.. we did it inverted.. everyone got to run saw and oval.. everyone.. then we ran heat racing.. it wasn't any faster if i recall..

I personally wouldn't like a change.. it took me over 15 yrs to win a us-1.. and over the course one of my goals was to make it to the saw and oval time trials.. even if i didn't get us-1 i felt i did well if i got that far i did well

even thought i an not a saw or oval time trial person i still enjoyed it..

I think personally, if you take that away if give's people less drive.. just my opinion.

chris

 

[El Zorro]

Marty couldn't have said it better...............

Another "old timer,"

Dick Tyndall

Funny, you gave me some of the best input when I wrote the alternate format proposal. <_<

After 5 rounds of heat racing it pits the best of the best against each other for 3 more rounds. No different than if you choked during heat racing of the regular format, you're not going to the final dance. B)

The whole purpose of the alternate format is to give clubs that may not have the pond to do timed events (like too short for SAW) but a have great heat race site. It's just an option, not a replacement so you "old timers" can stop getting your panties in a wad..... :lol:

I do remember when we talked about this. I think it would be nice to have an alternate format ( such as your proposal ) in the rule book for clubs that want to host the Internats IF this is what the IMPBA membership wants.............let them vote it in the Rule Book. I really don't think there will be clubs " lined up at the door" wanting to host one if they could run a Heat Racing only Internats. You would be lucky to shorten it by two days from what it is now. What would be nice is to have 2 or 3 more races like the Atlanta Spring Nats spread out in different parts of the country.............let more racers get a taste of what it's like to race with the "big dogs". I agree with the members having a choice of formats, it's just I prefer the one that includes the Timed Events..............

Hope the turn fin worked out for you, Don.

Dick Tyndall

 

[BigChuck]

Ok Mr Tyndall.............I'll go along with that.

There is one thing that would like your and Marty's input on.

Both of you, during your time at the fore front of IMPBA represented one thing. One word.

CHANGE!! Would we not benefit from it? Would this ,not be the ideal venue for IMPBA

to move forward. Be it Internats or DB. We are presently a ship with out a rudder.

In my opinion, Both of you had ideas that we all benefit from TODAY. If both of you had been "if isin't broke don't fix it" type of individuals, I would hate to think were we would be.

But here we are. So it is not broke, "Completly". And maybe it dosen't not need fixing.

But that did not stop either of you than. And I understand that our history is our lessons learned. I guess my Question is: should we stop leaarning?

 

[AWaddle322]

You know the funny part is the people that bring this up are not even people that typically attend the nats.

You think then maybe there's a reason they bring it up?

Regardless of the format I'm hoping one of these next Internats winds up a little closer to home so I can attend without giving up 75% of my paid time off as I sure miss going.....

Don,

I give up 100 percent of my paid time off for the internats and have traveled from detriot to sarasota. I have traveled over the 4 th of July and have missed farthers day to go the nats. I am going to be at the internats 95 percent of the time. From what I have seen and I have been to the 6 of the 7 last interntats (my sisiter got married in the middle of the one I missed) except for the few locals you see the same bunch there regardless of location. What i am really saying if it something that you want to do then you find away, If it is not something you want to do, then make excuses, but do not take away the intergrity if winning a US1 and besides if that many more people woud attend would it really shorten the event any?

Allen

 

[Don Ferrette]

I give up 100 percent of my paid time off for the internats and have traveled from detroit to sarasota....

You must be single.....

... except for the few locals you see the same bunch there regardless of location.....

Exactly. Do you think that the reason you always see the same faces is that it's those who can surrender almost 2 weeks of time year after year? Don't get me wrong, if I had my way I'd be there every year but sometimes the family needs to come first.

As for the notion of intergrity ... some of you make it sound like 8 total rounds of racing to win a National Champion title under the alternate format would be a piece of cake. Funny how I've seen some of the very same who can't even get it done in 4. The "cream" always rises to the top no matter what format gets used & you can take that to the bank. B)

 

[Marty Davis]

Ok Mr Tyndall.............I'll go along with that.

There is one thing that would like your and Marty's input on.

Both of you, during your time at the fore front of IMPBA represented one thing. One word.

CHANGE!! Would we not benefit from it? Would this ,not be the ideal venue for IMPBA

to move forward. Be it Internats or DB. We are presently a ship with out a rudder.

In my opinion, Both of you had ideas that we all benefit from TODAY. If both of you had been "if isin't broke don't fix it" type of individuals, I would hate to think were we would be.

But here we are. So it is not broke, "Completly". And maybe it dosen't not need fixing.

But that did not stop either of you than. And I understand that our history is our lessons learned. I guess my Question is: should we stop leaarning?

BigChuck?

Since I don't know who you are (you seem to know about things that happenend in the past), I can't directly address you.

Chris Wood is a friend of mine who I have known for years. I knew him when he was young and really interested in our hobby. NOW he has finally won a US#1. It is obviously very important to him. That is the way it should be.

He said he is not a SAW guy. Neither am I or most people who attend the Internats. I did spend time preparing for the Internats and the timed events. An example of a SAW guy is Gary Preusse or Terry Keeley. They are SAW guys who loves SAW. They go to EVERY SAW event. They are always a factor if they make the SAW finals at the Internats. BUT, most times they don't. When we used to run SAW before heat racing, EVERYONE got to do SAW and EVERYONE got to run timed oval. IT was awesome because every entrant got to race every other entrant head to head in 2 events, and the SAW guys got to show off their ability too. That drew more entrants. After the timed events we all competed in heat racing. That was great since there had been two opportunities to get to compete against everyone else in your class.

Some years ago there was a push by the late Fred McBroom (IMPBA President) and our current President to completely do away with the timed events at the Internats. He could never do any good at the timed events so they decided it was in their best interest to run ONLY heat racing. Dick, myself, Tom Grannis and a few others (can't remember who else) fought this and convinced the Board to LEAVE IT ALONE. The originator of the format was Leonard Skwiera (past president and Hall of Fame Member) in the early 70's. It was a really popular system then and one which has produced MANY highly skilled US#1's over the years. An alternate format was used at least once and I would invite you to look back at the US#1 winners that year. It would be obvious that several had gotten lucky in their heat races and were not highly skilled racers, in fact were nearly beginners. Do you want YOUR US#1 winners to be guys like Jerry Caruthers, or someone who lucks into a US#1 without being tested by all competitors in your class? I doubt that. I needs to be something that is not easy to win and demonstrates that you are skilled and deserving of one of the highest awards your orginization gives only ONCE a year. It needs to be a unique and IMPORTANT event every year.

The only other format that would continue the excitement and selection of a good US#1 representative is the format used at the Hydro Masters. That format was patterned off of the World of Outlaws where everyone qualifys on the oval individually (could be done with up to 3 people at the same time) against the clock and then placed in Mains with people of similar times. That is great since it puts those of similar skill level together and makes for great racing. The mains are run off starting with the slowest and the winner moves up to the next higher main, etc., etc until the A Mains are run. Do you know another very successful RC Hobby who uses this and continues to grow by leaps and bounds? YES, RC Cars. I personally would like to see our current system kept, but if you want just heat racing, this would be the best option, one which is tried and highly successful.

I know that it is quite a sacrifice to be IMPBA President, but this organization needs and requires a strong leader in this time of low interest and many other leisure time options. We, as an orginization are at a crossroads. Why is NAMBA successful and still growing? Because they have a leader who is commited and has been President for MANY years. He is calculating and very effective in his leadership. We need someone like that badly or we will continue the downward spiral. PLEASE think about this, it is critical for our organization. The organization needs to find someone who has been highly successful in the competition side of IMPBA and who has some interest in the past succeses of our orginization. NOT someone who makes a LOT of changes because that is the "thing to do" and is only interested in demonstrating that he is doing something - anything. Where are the thinkers? I know there are some who could do this job!

Sorry to stray off topic, but this is so important that it needs to be talked and thought about.

Marty Davis

 

[Joe Warren]

Heat racing will always require 4 days. TT & Oval 1 to 1.5 days. Given 1/2 day to weather depending on mother nature. Its going to be a week long event of racing plus travel...... I looking for the 2007 Nats to be put on by a Strong club that does Not allow controversy or great debates. Just Good clean Organized racing.

 

[Geraghty]

Hey, it's the Internats! The ONLY race like this each year! It's special and it should be different than any other race. To win at the Internats is such a special accomplishment in ones racing career. Changing the format by doing away with the Timed Events will make it just "another race".

Marty couldn't have said it better...............

Another "old timer,"

Dick Tyndall

From another "old timer".....and when you think about it maybe that is our problem. :unsure:

Several years ago I had an older fellow I worked with say to me ,the pursuit of experience should never rest.

He followed that up by saying that "the "traditionalists" will always tell you how many marriages have been destroyed by alcohol but..........they can never tell you how many have been saved". I know this is amusing ,but think about it.There is a lot of truth in that statement.There are always two ways to look at everything.

Maybe it is time for us "old timers" to just get the hell out of the way and let the young lions that are willing to do all the work try a different approach.Looking at it from a different perspective,the IMPBA could well be drowning in its own tradition.In the past few years it has been a struggle to twist someones arm to commit to an Internats. What is wrong with the "traditional" picture that makes finding a Internats host so difficult??

[Truth be known,you can take all the Internats that Marty,Dick and myself have attended in the last 6 or 7 years and count them on one hand.Now thats a shot of perspective for you young lions to chew on.]

Instead of everybody sitting here beating on the keyboards from hell, why don't a group of you young lions put together a proposed "lets try something new and different" Internats format and put it before the B.O.D.'s for consideration.

Don't negotiate or compromise.Just respectfully tell the board what you will do and where and when you will do it.

Give the board a drop dead date of say,1-1-2007 for a decision.This would still give you time to organize and inform.

I guarantee there will be two things that will happen if you do this.

1.The closer you get to the drop dead date and if there are no other proposals submitted,the better you will look for a positive decision from the B.O.D.'s.[i know I sure would hate to be known as the "board" that couldn't find a Internats host.]

2.If you did get the go ahead for a new Internats format you sure would get a whole new bunch of new faces attending the Internats for the first time. I would suspect you would see alot more new faces than you would see of the "old timers" that would not attend because of "tradition".

 

[bzubee]

You hit the nail right on the head as usual Rod thank you.

Hey, it's the Internats! The ONLY race like this each year! It's special and it should be different than any other race. To win at the Internats is such a special accomplishment in ones racing career. Changing the format by doing away with the Timed Events will make it just "another race".

Marty couldn't have said it better...............

Another "old timer,"

Dick Tyndall

From another "old timer".....and when you think about it maybe that is our problem. :unsure:

Several years ago I had an older fellow I worked with say to me ,the pursuit of experience should never rest.

He followed that up by saying that "the "traditionalists" will always tell you how many marriages have been destroyed by alcohol but..........they can never tell you how many have been saved". I know this is amusing ,but think about it.There is a lot of truth in that statement.There are always two ways to look at everything.

Maybe it is time for us "old timers" to just get the hell out of the way and let the young lions that are willing to do all the work try a different approach.Looking at it from a different perspective,the IMPBA could well be drowning in its own tradition.In the past few years it has been a struggle to twist someones arm to commit to an Internats. What is wrong with the "traditional" picture that makes finding a Internats host so difficult??

[Truth be known,you can take all the Internats that Marty,Dick and myself have attended in the last 6 or 7 years and count them on one hand.Now thats a shot of perspective for you young lions to chew on.]

Instead of everybody sitting here beating on the keyboards from hell, why don't a group of you young lions put together a proposed "lets try something new and different" Internats format and put it before the B.O.D.'s for consideration.

Don't negotiate or compromise.Just respectfully tell the board what you will do and where and when you will do it.

Give the board a drop dead date of say,1-1-2007 for a decision.This would still give you time to organize and inform.

I guarantee there will be two things that will happen if you do this.

1.The closer you get to the drop dead date and if there are no other proposals submitted,the better you will look for a positive decision from the B.O.D.'s.[i know I sure would hate to be known as the "board" that couldn't find a Internats host.]

2.If you did get the go ahead for a new Internats format you sure would get a whole new bunch of new faces attending the Internats for the first time. I would suspect you would see alot more new faces than you would see of the "old timers" that would not attend because of "tradition".

 

[Don Ferrette]

From another "old timer".....and when you think about it maybe that is our problem. :unsure:

Several years ago I had an older fellow I worked with say to me ,the pursuit of experience should never rest.

He followed that up by saying that "the "traditionalists" will always tell you how many marriages have been destroyed by alcohol but..........they can never tell you how many have been saved". I know this is amusing ,but think about it.There is a lot of truth in that statement.There are always two ways to look at everything.

Maybe it is time for us "old timers" to just get the hell out of the way and let the young lions that are willing to do all the work try a different approach.Looking at it from a different perspective,the IMPBA could well be drowning in its own tradition.In the past few years it has been a struggle to twist someones arm to commit to an Internats. What is wrong with the "traditional" picture that makes finding a Internats host so difficult??

[Truth be known,you can take all the Internats that Marty,Dick and myself have attended in the last 6 or 7 years and count them on one hand.Now thats a shot of perspective for you young lions to chew on.]

Instead of everybody sitting here beating on the keyboards from hell, why don't a group of you young lions put together a proposed "lets try something new and different" Internats format and put it before the B.O.D.'s for consideration.

Don't negotiate or compromise.Just respectfully tell the board what you will do and where and when you will do it.

Give the board a drop dead date of say,1-1-2007 for a decision.This would still give you time to organize and inform.

I guarantee there will be two things that will happen if you do this.

1.The closer you get to the drop dead date and if there are no other proposals submitted,the better you will look for a positive decision from the B.O.D.'s.[i know I sure would hate to be known as the "board" that couldn't find a Internats host.]

2.If you did get the go ahead for a new Internats format you sure would get a whole new bunch of new faces attending the Internats for the first time. I would suspect you would see alot more new faces than you would see of the "old timers" that would not attend because of "tradition".

And for what it's worth, the alternate Internats proposal I put forth is there for any host club to consider. An Internats under the alternate format is still far better than no Internats.

 

[Brian Blazer]

It is my belief the current format will become even more special if we were to accept an alternate.

For instance, say for the next 3 years we use the alternate format for the nats. Then a club gets the energy to host the original format for the nats. The tradition and history will come alive and make the Nats even more of a buzz.

I don't believe winning the US1 makes the Nationals. I believe beating out 25 different boats makes for a great Nationals and a huge sense of pride.

I'm kind of a young pup that has been in the hobby for 16 years. I know what the tradition means, but also see a reason for an alternative solution.

Our club was willing to put on the gas nationals (two times now) because there isn't the timed events. Cincinnati has a very strong club and if our club wouldn't put the internats I wonder how many other clubs aren't interested because of the timed events and surveyed course.

The top drivers/boaters always win the gas nats...it is very hard to escape the good guys in all of your heats.

Brian

 

[piper_chuck]

I give up 100 percent of my paid time off for the internats and have traveled from detroit to sarasota....

You must be single.....

... except for the few locals you see the same bunch there regardless of location.....

Exactly. Do you think that the reason you always see the same faces is that it's those who can surrender almost 2 weeks of time year after year? Don't get me wrong, if I had my way I'd be there every year but sometimes the family needs to come first.

I think this is a really important consideration. Many of us are in a position where we just can't spend the amount of time required for the internats. I may be able to attend a 4, or possibly 5, day event, but the current format is completely out of the question.

 

[Bob Finn]

Another opinion, for what its worth. The Internats has been something special during the racing season. The format being different is what made it that way. I would hate to see it change. In fact, I really like the full format where everyone has an opportunity to run the timed events. If we do away with the timed events, in my view, we actually just do away with the Internats. It will be just another heat race, and can fall in place with the other so-called national events that are being promoted. If we are going to do this, the US1 Awards and other traditions should be suspended, and the "Internats" race title should be eliminated. It would then become just a regional heat race, since many people will not travel long distance for a normal heat race. We should also take away the sanction protection of the Internats, and allow other regions to sanction races during that time period.

The first Gas Nats that I attended was a 6 round heat race. Something a bit different. This year, Houston put on a wonderful event. It was however, a normal 5 round race. Attendance was down due to fuel cost and travel expenses, and what appeared to be an organized boycott by all the folks up north. I think we will see that trend in the future, if we downgrade the Internats. And I believe this would be a huge step in that direction.

 

[bzubee]

Brian as Rod suggested submit your bid proposal for the Internats I'm sure it will be accepted under what ever format your club wants. Since it would be the only bid. I understand you are going to be hosting the Gas Nats also sounds like a great event and professionally done.

This board is willing to work with changes required to enhance the growth of model boating. I'm on eof the young pups Marty keeps reffering to. Times change as does everything else. Ask Marty why the UNLIMITED DIED off and why the attendance a tthe Hydro Masters has also gone down over the years. I know change is required to meet the demands of the new boaters out there and get them to join and race in organized model boating.

It is my belief the current format will become even more special if we were to accept an alternate.

For instance, say for the next 3 years we use the alternate format for the nats. Then a club gets the energy to host the original format for the nats. The tradition and history will come alive and make the Nats even more of a buzz.

I don't believe winning the US1 makes the Nationals. I believe beating out 25 different boats makes for a great Nationals and a huge sense of pride.

I'm kind of a young pup that has been in the hobby for 16 years. I know what the tradition means, but also see a reason for an alternative solution.

Our club was willing to put on the gas nationals (two times now) because there isn't the timed events. Cincinnati has a very strong club and if our club wouldn't put the internats I wonder how many other clubs aren't interested because of the timed events and surveyed course.

The top drivers/boaters always win the gas nats...it is very hard to escape the good guys in all of your heats.

Brian

 

[Brian Blazer]

Bill,

It is not possible for our club to host both Nationals. One a year is our max. If we can submit a bid with our own proposed format, then it may be a possibility in the future.

Brian

 

[Brian Blazer]

Another opinion, for what its worth. The Internats has been something special during the racing season. The format being different is what made it that way. I would hate to see it change. In fact, I really like the full format where everyone has an opportunity to run the timed events. If we do away with the timed events, in my view, we actually just do away with the Internats. It will be just another heat race, and can fall in place with the other so-called national events that are being promoted. If we are going to do this, the US1 Awards and other traditions should be suspended, and the "Internats" race title should be eliminated. It would then become just a regional heat race, since many people will not travel long distance for a normal heat race. We should also take away the sanction protection of the Internats, and allow other regions to sanction races during that time period.

The first Gas Nats that I attended was a 6 round heat race. Something a bit different. This year, Houston put on a wonderful event. It was however, a normal 5 round race. Attendance was down due to fuel cost and travel expenses, and what appeared to be an organized boycott by all the folks up north. I think we will see that trend in the future, if we downgrade the Internats. And I believe this would be a huge step in that direction.

Bob, as you know the 2004 Gas Nats saw boaters from California, Arizona, Texas, Iowa, Florida and everywhere in between including Austrailia for a total of 252 boats. Not for one second will I agree people come to the Internats for the timed events. They come for the level of competition that will be always be at the Internats.

The 2006 Gas Nats was held in May if I remember correctly...Most poeple up North haven't had their boats out by then...this is why the Northern guys didn't make it. There was no boycott. The 2007 Gas Nats will have over 300 gas boats...is this just another race?

Brian

 

[Bob Finn]

Another opinion, for what its worth. The Internats has been something special during the racing season. The format being different is what made it that way. I would hate to see it change. In fact, I really like the full format where everyone has an opportunity to run the timed events. If we do away with the timed events, in my view, we actually just do away with the Internats. It will be just another heat race, and can fall in place with the other so-called national events that are being promoted. If we are going to do this, the US1 Awards and other traditions should be suspended, and the "Internats" race title should be eliminated. It would then become just a regional heat race, since many people will not travel long distance for a normal heat race. We should also take away the sanction protection of the Internats, and allow other regions to sanction races during that time period.

The first Gas Nats that I attended was a 6 round heat race. Something a bit different. This year, Houston put on a wonderful event. It was however, a normal 5 round race. Attendance was down due to fuel cost and travel expenses, and what appeared to be an organized boycott by all the folks up north. I think we will see that trend in the future, if we downgrade the Internats. And I believe this would be a huge step in that direction.

Bob, as you know the 2004 Gas Nats saw boaters from California, Arizona, Texas, Iowa, Florida and everywhere in between including Austrailia for a total of 252 boats. Not for one second will I agree people come to the Internats for the timed events. They come for the level of competition that will be always be at the Internats.

The 2006 Gas Nats was held in May if I remember correctly...Most poeple up North haven't had their boats out by then...this is why the Northern guys didn't make it. There was no boycott. The 2007 Gas Nats will have over 300 gas boats...is this just another race?

Brian

Brian - Atlanta had the Gas Nats early in May as I remember, and there was a good turnout. Houston had it Memorial day weekend. Did a great job, and no one from up north came at all, except Kevin Sheron. I agree you guys did a good job in 2004, but its a long trip. Folks don't think it was fair to the Houston club. This may become a regional race if we don't support other clubs races and efforts.