Help Me Understand

[piper_chuck]

I am confused :blink:
I see alot of people talk about liking 1 day races vs 2.. but here.. we can't get the draw any differently from a 1 vs a 2 day race.. yet alot have said they rather would come to our race in d4 if it was a 1 day race.. myself if i have to drive 3 plus hrs to race i would rather go to a 2 day.. but that is just me, as i see both sides..

Since I was one who brought this up, I'll give my reasoning for mentioning it. First, I agree with you. If I have to drive 3 hours each way, a two day race is definitely better. However, based on my own club's participation, I suspect there are lots of people out there who won't drive so far. They do show up at our club's one day races, and even our two day district races, but you just never see them at away races. I don't know all of the reasons why they won't travel, so I can only guess that it's some combination of time and expenses.

I also know that I go through way less hassle obtaining a one day kitchen pass than a 2-3 day, 2 nights away, kitchen pass. Even when the 2-3 days is local, getting a 1 day pass is way less trouble. Instead of tying up an entire weekend, the one day races leave a day for other family activities.

And then extending this idea a bit more, there may be people out there who can't or won't even devote a whole day for racing. I know I rarely see anyone stay at my flying field for the entire day. Most will spend a few hours flying and then go do other things.

Perhaps we should change the format of racing such that every class is not spread across the entire day. Perhaps classes should be grouped so that on a one day race all of the heats can be finished in a 3-4 hour period. This way someone with one boat doesn't need to spend a big part of their day sitting around waiting for their heats.

 

[bzubee]

Chuck you need to check out the Minute breakers race usually in August time frame that is exactly what they do along with a bunch of other clubs in the area that all host one events ( they have it much easier since there are about 9 clubs located in the Chicago area) it is not much of a drive for any of them. They are the District Four clubs in IMPBA. Very well organized group of racers and clubs.

I am confused :blink:
I see alot of people talk about liking 1 day races vs 2.. but here.. we can't get the draw any differently from a 1 vs a 2 day race.. yet alot have said they rather would come to our race in d4 if it was a 1 day race.. myself if i have to drive 3 plus hrs to race i would rather go to a 2 day.. but that is just me, as i see both sides..

Since I was one who brought this up, I'll give my reasoning for mentioning it. First, I agree with you. If I have to drive 3 hours each way, a two day race is definitely better. However, based on my own club's participation, I suspect there are lots of people out there who won't drive so far. They do show up at our club's one day races, and even our two day district races, but you just never see them at away races. I don't know all of the reasons why they won't travel, so I can only guess that it's some combination of time and expenses.

I also know that I go through way less hassle obtaining a one day kitchen pass than a 2-3 day, 2 nights away, kitchen pass. Even when the 2-3 days is local, getting a 1 day pass is way less trouble. Instead of tying up an entire weekend, the one day races leave a day for other family activities.

And then extending this idea a bit more, there may be people out there who can't or won't even devote a whole day for racing. I know I rarely see anyone stay at my flying field for the entire day. Most will spend a few hours flying and then go do other things.

Perhaps we should change the format of racing such that every class is not spread across the entire day. Perhaps classes should be grouped so that on a one day race all of the heats can be finished in a 3-4 hour period. This way someone with one boat doesn't need to spend a big part of their day sitting around waiting for their heats.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Not at all.. what that says is, money stoping people?.. I very much doubt it.. not the masses anyway. There is LOTS of money out there..

Grim

Yes this is what I think. There are sooooooooo many hobbies out there and they all cost money and R/C boating is cheap compared most of them. I pretty much just have boat racing as a hobby with snowboarding distant second. My dad likes fishing, photography, and raising tropical fish. Ever priced a minow sized tropical fish? Just saying... everybody spends there money somewhere. It's just how important it is to you. There are those on a budget so the RTR stuff is good.

I know NAMBA pretty much leaves it to the local district to do what serves there area best. If you want your club to grow and the local hobby shop only sells Miss Vegas it would be your best bet to open up a class in you club/district to race Miss Vegas. Work with them and do a cross promotion.

but getting back to you comment... Yes there is lots of money out there.

 

[bzubee]

Roger,

One aspect that could be hurting model boating is the fact that is very labor intensive you must have a way to retrieve your dead wood it is much harder to tune a needle on a model boat than an RC car, plane, or Heli. Plus the fact that there just not that many people that enjoy tinkering with their hobbies they just want instant gratification and do not want to mess with maintenace.

 

[Ray Barnes]

Roger,One aspect that could be hurting model boating is the fact that is very labor intensive you must have a way to retrieve your dead wood it is much harder to tune a needle on a model boat than an RC car, plane, or Heli. Plus the fact that there just not that many people that enjoy tinkering with their hobbies they just want instant gratification and do not want to mess with maintenace.

I'll second this opinion. I got into the hobby because I enjoy building and tinkering, and the fact I like scale hydros.

The cost is a little more than I expected. When you first start out is overwhelming on all the info. you need to get started. It's not easy to find out how to get started. I still have to figure out how all this racing stuff works. I'll be honest I read some of the post here about the hobby shrinking and it makes me worried about getting to deep into it. I would hate to invest into my scales and not have anyone to race. I'm hoping that it turns around.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

I think until we get the big cooprate company's to push the more we are stuck.. i know mike and the gang at aquacraft are trying but what about some of the others??

I am working with just about everybody out there... or at least attempting to... but the reality is the marketing is small so their support is small in comparison with cars and planes. I manage to get a little more support by having the interest of their business at heart, providing them direct ways for them to get access to new customers. We have to be creative and a bit more saavy if we want more support. Maybe get with your local dealer... get them to donate a boat to raffle off at your next race... but make it available to spectators only. The local dealer can also promote the raffle of the prize at their store, promoting your race at the same time. The stores customers show up at your race with an incentive to win the prize. But then send them back to the store to have to pick the prize up. Now the winner knows where the hobby shop is to buy fuel or other parts and where a likely place to run their boat. It's a Win! Win!

Just another idea... not the end all answer... do what works best for your area.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

See... this is working...

I just got a call from my co-contest director of the Grand Prix Classic... who just got a call from Lohring Miller suggesting to add Proboat and Miss Vegas boats to our race program. So now we will send out flyers to all of the local hobby shops advertising that these boats are Welcome at the Grand Prix Classic... but the interest had to come first from those people that race... our members... "you".

As I mentioned before... try some of the ideas that have been presented on this post... take the challenges into consideration... and create a plan that you think might be successful... and give it a shot.

See what happens... The worst is that is won't work...

... then try it again....

...then try it again....

...then try it again with a little change...

...then try it again!!!

 

[SayMikey]

See... this is working...
I just got a call from my co-contest director of the Grand Prix Classic... who just got a call from Lohring Miller suggesting to add Proboat and Miss Vegas boats to our race program. So now we will send out flyers to all of the local hobby shops advertising that these boats are Welcome at the Grand Prix Classic... but the interest had to come first from those people that race... our members... "you".

As I mentioned before... try some of the ideas that have been presented on this post... take the challenges into consideration... and create a plan that you think might be successful... and give it a shot.

See what happens... The worst is that is won't work...

... then try it again....

...then try it again....

...then try it again with a little change...

...then try it again!!!

The only thing our LHS sells right is RTR or small hardware parts. He is asking $47.00 a gallon for fuel.........

 

[Don Ferrette]

He is asking $47.00 a gallon for fuel.........

And then they wonder why people go mail order or buy direct from people like FHS (Red Max). I'm all for supporting the LHS but it's not rocket science to figure out what they pay in quantity as a dealer for fuels. Yes it's a retail storefront but that guy sounds like he doesn't want your business all that bad. A smart move is to offer a decent price on stuff like fuel so you develop repeat customers who will come back to spend money. When was the last time you went to a LHS & only bought exactly what you went there for? Any other LHS in the area besides that one?

 

[SayMikey]

He is asking $47.00 a gallon for fuel.........

And then they wonder why people go mail order or buy direct from people like FHS (Red Max). I'm all for supporting the LHS but it's not rocket science to figure out what they pay in quantity as a dealer for fuels. Yes it's a retail storefront but that guy sounds like he doesn't want your business all that bad. A smart move is to offer a decent price on stuff like fuel so you develop repeat customers who will come back to spend money. When was the last time you went to a LHS & only bought exactly what you went there for? Any other LHS in the area besides that one?

We have a guy that has been around forever,we used to buy K/B 1000 from him at a good price. He will order anything we want but he knows as well as we do we can get it for the same price. I buy servos,wood Dubro and stuff like that from him. With the Internet coming in the LHS are more doomed then ever. We got more members by setting up at the big boat fish and ski shows,Larry Maglinger who was as good as it gets came to us via a show like that. Funny looking back we thought we were helping him WRONGO he did more for us then we could ever have done for him. Too bad some guys move on to other things,it die hards like us that need to keep it going. My son brings buddies to every race he can come to and we might see a few step in for awhile. Model boating is hard on guys,wives,marriages and friendships,we strive to keep it alive............ Mikey

 

[Scott Norris]

This LHS stuff is nothing new. I worked at a LHS back in the early 80's part time and we made a killing selling Frogs, Hornets and the occasional RC-10 for the hard core car racers. :lol:

At that time there was a local Boat Club that raced on a regular basis and had good membership, but it never warranted keeping anything in stock other than 40% Fuel, which we picked up directly from Red Max and sold at a fairly good price.

I would from time to time build a Race Boat for a customer, usually a Sightler, but I made a ton of cash on the side building cars and Trainer Planes for Newbies.

 

[Chris Wood]

He is asking $47.00 a gallon for fuel.........

And then they wonder why people go mail order or buy direct from people like FHS (Red Max). I'm all for supporting the LHS but it's not rocket science to figure out what they pay in quantity as a dealer for fuels. Yes it's a retail storefront but that guy sounds like he doesn't want your business all that bad. A smart move is to offer a decent price on stuff like fuel so you develop repeat customers who will come back to spend money. When was the last time you went to a LHS & only bought exactly what you went there for? Any other LHS in the area besides that one?

We have a guy that has been around forever,we used to buy K/B 1000 from him at a good price. He will order anything we want but he knows as well as we do we can get it for the same price. I buy servos,wood Dubro and stuff like that from him. With the Internet coming in the LHS are more doomed then ever. We got more members by setting up at the big boat fish and ski shows,Larry Maglinger who was as good as it gets came to us via a show like that. Funny looking back we thought we were helping him WRONGO he did more for us then we could ever have done for him. Too bad some guys move on to other things,it die hards like us that need to keep it going. My son brings buddies to every race he can come to and we might see a few step in for awhile. Model boating is hard on guys,wives,marriages and friendships,we strive to keep it alive............ Mikey

Mike you hit it on the head and i think that is a HUGE part of it.. Kids now of days are what i call not mechanically inclined.. or care to be.. they would rather play video games or computer stuff then work on something.. not saying all but alot.. Why do you think the rtr traxxas stuff is so HUGE.

they want to go fast out of the box. no work plug and go.. this sounds dumb but i blame that on the schools.. to much focus on what i call office jobs and not enough focus on technical jobs like welding wood working, machine shop..

I loved that stuff, my senior year of high school that is all i did was live out in the industrial arts building.. 4hrs welding 2hrs machine shop helper, 2hrs welding helper ect..

Now a days it is math science, english and so on.. More and more ( in my opinion ) are loosing focus on hands on stuff and going to more book work. I understand why, manufacturing is not what it was 20 plus yrs ago, but if we don't continue to strive for it i will die..

If it wasn't for my father i probably wouldn't have gotten as involved in this sport as I have.. Watching him work and the ability that he has is absolutly unreal, the guy should work for nasa! And i have the ut most respect for him, but alot of kids don't have people like that in there family that are what i call hands on, and i truly think that, that is where some of it stems from.

I used to race cars really heavily, and i have watched that since diminsh around here.. at least the racing end, more and more just want to play in a parking lot or back yard and maybe that is a fad that will change, who know's..

Like i said, if i can help let me know i will do what i can

chris

 

[piper_chuck]

He is asking $47.00 a gallon for fuel.........

And then they wonder why people go mail order or buy direct from people like FHS (Red Max). I'm all for supporting the LHS but it's not rocket science to figure out what they pay in quantity as a dealer for fuels. Yes it's a retail storefront but that guy sounds like he doesn't want your business all that bad. A smart move is to offer a decent price on stuff like fuel so you develop repeat customers who will come back to spend money. When was the last time you went to a LHS & only bought exactly what you went there for? Any other LHS in the area besides that one?

We have a guy that has been around forever,we used to buy K/B 1000 from him at a good price. He will order anything we want but he knows as well as we do we can get it for the same price. I buy servos,wood Dubro and stuff like that from him. With the Internet coming in the LHS are more doomed then ever. We got more members by setting up at the big boat fish and ski shows,Larry Maglinger who was as good as it gets came to us via a show like that. Funny looking back we thought we were helping him WRONGO he did more for us then we could ever have done for him. Too bad some guys move on to other things,it die hards like us that need to keep it going. My son brings buddies to every race he can come to and we might see a few step in for awhile. Model boating is hard on guys,wives,marriages and friendships,we strive to keep it alive............ Mikey

Mike you hit it on the head and i think that is a HUGE part of it.. Kids now of days are what i call not mechanically inclined.. or care to be.. they would rather play video games or computer stuff then work on something.. not saying all but alot.. Why do you think the rtr traxxas stuff is so HUGE.

they want to go fast out of the box. no work plug and go.. this sounds dumb but i blame that on the schools.. to much focus on what i call office jobs and not enough focus on technical jobs like welding wood working, machine shop..

Without straying too far off topic, I don't blame this trend on the schools at all. I think the responsibility falls squarely on the parents shoulders. It's not the schools who buy video games for the kids or let them watch too much tv, play too much on the computer, etc. Kids have lots of time outside school to pick up non-book types of skills. Parents have a big influence on what skills they acquire. My daughter will be 4 soon and she's started spending time in the shop with me where I've begun showing her how my tools work. It would be easier, and I'd get much more done, if I just dumped her in front of video games, but I want her to learn to use her hands to make things too.

 

[Kez]

I know I am going to get flamed for saying this but it is ironic to have 54 replies on this thread about how to promote the hobby while on the same page there is this

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=18877

and there was not one response.

kez

 

[piper_chuck]

I know I am going to get flamed for saying this but it is ironic to have 54 replies on this thread about how to promote the hobby while on the same page there is this http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=18877

and there was not one response.

kez

I have seen that question in 5 different forums. I answered two of them and also sent a PM with more information.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

I know I am going to get flamed for saying this but it is ironic to have 54 replies on this thread about how to promote the hobby while on the same page there is this http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=18877

and there was not one response.

kez

I have seen that question in 5 different forums. I answered two of them and also sent a PM with more information.

I had not seen this in my travels. I usually only look at this message board. Has he been taken care of. If not I can contact him. He falls within my district and their are a few people in his area...

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Roger.. No t-shirts yet, still lining up sponsors/advertisers before I get them done. First race is Mid Feb... Thanks for the awesome logo!
When I got into Model Boating in the late 80's early 90's, there was a group of about 35 guys racing alone in the El Paso area. That number is now down to "1" as I have now stepped away. We have had guys move away, and other people move on to other things, etc.. Back in those days we had one day races here locally that had almost as many boats as we now see at a district race in 2 days.

Just make sure that I get one when they done. People always leave out the artist. : )

 

[piper_chuck]

I know I am going to get flamed for saying this but it is ironic to have 54 replies on this thread about how to promote the hobby while on the same page there is this http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=18877

and there was not one response.

kez

I have seen that question in 5 different forums. I answered two of them and also sent a PM with more information.

I had not seen this in my travels. I usually only look at this message board. Has he been taken care of. If not I can contact him. He falls within my district and their are a few people in his area...

Don't know if he's been taken care of or not, I haven't heard back from him. If you know some additional people he can contact, it wouldn't hurt to send him a PM or email.

 

[dr gary turner]

No answer here but,
MFG are somewaht to blame as mentioned. The LHS cannot really support the hobby because we can all mail order cheaper than the LHS can buy. RTRs would be the only thing the LHS can offer.

And most certainly the MFGs show preference to other hobbies. The demand in the boating worls is too low. This is why Picco stopped producing marine engines, right?

Our club has been to numerous exhibits. The largest was the unlimited hydro race a few years back. We were positioned directly at the main entrance and over 100,000 people attended that weekend. We gained zero members. Go figure.???

We have large displays at the LHS and great support from them. Few members gained from them. Maybe because they cannot offer what it takes to race at a reasonable price?

I often hear that we have too many races (10). I also hear the opposite. The score is based on the best 7 so what is the big deal? Who knows?

Competition in nitro classes has been reduced severly. Gas is growing due to the gas-n-go and basically 2 classes, hydro and mono.

We have offered Crackerbox for a while now and it is holding its own. This is a nice governed, inexpesive, introductory class. We also started a stock gas class. This seems very promising as I have seen 4 different hulls race and niether showed a definite advantage.

Overall, our club keeps about 30 paying members and 15 racing members. Some go and some come.

As for traveling, I prefer to spend all that $$$ on something else. It is expensive. One day events might be nice.

Money seems to be an issue and rightfully so. This has gone from a hobby/sport to racing. Racing = $$$ anywhere you go.

I don't think nitro is dying. Now for two years in a row, the Atlanta Spring National has completely fill with boats in 10 to 14 days and the majority are nitro boats. It is a regional and local culture that determines what dominates. Unfortunately it seems that too many individual don't know what they don't know because of rarely getting out of their local enviroment to see what else happens in other areas. I think Don Pinkert mentioned the concept that many individuals excell only to their local level of competition and knowledge. Gary

 

[Speed Jr.]

If it wasn't for my father i probably wouldn't have gotten as involved in this sport as I have..

chris

Same here Chris..................It really is a family thing. There are a lot of Sr's and Jr's racing together here in Dist 4.(Me and my dad are one of them) I dont know to many kids my age (early 20's) that dive into this hobby without a family member already in it. We need more best friends showing there best friends the joys of the hobby, not the costs. Sad part is, the first question Im asked by my buddies is "how much did that cost?" I tell them how much the B tunnel costs everytime, hoping they dont ask how much the twin costs. :huh:

Larry Gempp Jr.