Help Me Understand

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Unfortunately or Fortunately, depending on where you stand, I do not have as much time that I used to entertain myself with the daily commentary provided by this online community of so many that enjoy this hobby that I love so much. To my dismay, all to often, I read the disheartening stories of how our hobby is dieing or how one instance or another is pushing someone to the "Getting out of the hobby" ebay sale. Low attendance at races, too many classes, too many races, too expensive, races too far... It's all too hard for me to understand. I wonder why areas like district 9 can maintain an average boat count of approximately 120 for 8 to 10 races straight for as long as I can remember.

I wonder why areas like district 19 can have 32 events in a single season. 32! Wow!... 16 races in district 2. None of these places sound like the hobby dieing. In district 9 we just added another class, due to the growing popularity of gas powered boats. Here is a question that I don't think has been asked. Why are some districts doing so well and others doing so poorly.

What is the difference between the two and how can we take what works from the successful ones and apply them to the areas that are not so successful?

 

[Hydro Junkie]

A couple of reasons are simple:

People and Politics

The people that have the drive to go to every race are the ones that(to a point) keep the clubs going. The problem is that these same prople have to scedule racing around the rest of their life. The more one has on their plate, the harder it is to make the races, hense the lower numbers. In my own case, work, the rising cost of gas, the dreaded "honey do" list and other commitments take their toll on boating time.

Politics can chase good people away from any organization quicker than anything else I can think of. The bad part is that those that leave will blame others for being in a "good old boys" clique, whether true or not. I've seen this in several organizations, some getting so bad that the group ended up shutting down from lack of active members. I could write a multipage lecture, but what would be the point? I hope this simplified version gets the point accross

 

[Chris Wood]

I think some of it may have to do with people within there own district don't want to travel outside there own city?? I know it is that way here.. The CLOSEST race for me is our own host club and that is 2 1/2 hrs away... but i continue to do it.. most would't..

chris

 

[Don Ferrette]

I think some of it may have to do with people within there own district don't want to travel outside there own city?? I know it is that way here.. The CLOSEST race for me is our own host club and that is 2 1/2 hrs away... but i continue to do it.. most would't..
chris

It all comes down to how bad you want to do it. Like Chris I have to drive a good ways to attend any races, our club races are an hour & 1/2 away but I go & will continue to do so. Politics was brought up & yeah it's a pain in the azz but anytime you have organized competition of any form it is a necessary evil. One place that I see us shooting ourselves in the foot is outside promotion. I'm constantly encouraging getting the LHS involved in some form as we do little to bring in new blood, word of mouth will only get you so far. I know many will scoff at these newer entry level boats like the Miss Vegas but THAT is your future. One of the biggest obstacles was the entry level costs, now with a boat like the Vegas, which runs quite well out of the box, you can get someone in at about $350 & that's including a gallon of fuel & glow driver. Everyone on this board knows how they felt that first time you ran & how excited you were, didn't matter at the time what boat you had, you were jazzed in the moment. Clubs out there need to make a place to bring in the new members & get on the same page with the LHS so they can carry something worth buying that a newbie can have fun with. Then make that same newbie feel welcome & give them a place to play, once that hook is set the rest takes care of itself. B)

 

[Piston1]

Where's the LHS owners in this board. What can I do to get a LHS more involved? It would be nice to hear their point of view.

 

[Darin Jordan]

I know many will scoff at these newer entry level boats like the Miss Vegas but THAT is your future.
...

Then make that same newbie feel welcome & give them a place to play, once that hook is set the rest takes care of itself. B)

I couldn't agree more! On the FE side, our club is pretty big... We have 12-15 races a season and about 30 or so members... Things are good... BUT, it is getting expensive, and the technology is somewhat complex for someone new to just get involved out of the box... Along comes the Aquacraft SV27... Now there is a legit RTR that performs great out of the box... We are putting together an exhibition class for this boat to run at the 2007 FE Nationals this year, and maybe it'll catch on and become a regular deal. Keeping the boat as spec as possible to keep the field level, regardless of skill levels, and leave it up to their driving...

I figure that, once they get involved at this level, and are SURROUNDED by all of the other things we do, they'll be saying.... "That's AWESOME... Wicked Fast.... Where can I get one of THOSE boats???"

FISH ON!!

 

[lohring]

To add to Don's comment and on the nitro side of what Darren said, our club and District 8 just added the .18 RTR Sport Hydro class. This resulted in all the boats our local hobby store ordered (6) going to 4 existing racers and at least 2 new racers. Our club expects 8 of these boats next year. The district ran at least that many last year. I see this becoming the biggest class in the area because; the price is right ($300), the boats run great out of the box, and it's equally easy for new and experienced racers to run with a minimum of equipment. With rules that prevent much hop up work, the class will become a driver's race. We may even have enough boats to run a beginner's and an expert's group.

Lohring Miller

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Okay I have seen 5 posts on what's wrong and one on what may be working. Please keep in mind the intention of this post isn't just to gripe (AGAIN). There are plenty of other post to do that. What I am hoping for is constructive discussion on what is working and what is not as well as ways to incorporate what is working into those places that may not be working so well...

for things going wrong I have heard...

People having too much on their plate

Clicks (Tightly knitted circle of peers that are unfriendly to newcomers or outsiders)

Cost of Gas

Honey-Dos

Not Willing to Travel

Lack of promotion

lack of entry-level/affordable classes.

So...

I suppose the successful districts are Clickless, without politics, gas prices from the 60s, unmarried, the whole race circuit within "each member's" city limits, have television commercials to promote their races, and race boat classes you can buy at Walmart. LOL!

Of course not...

Most district face the same issues... cost of living (less to spend on boats)... more demand at work (less free time)... the same Honey-Dos... travel and hotel expenses...

So... tell me this... for those districts that are deemed successful... Why are they and what do we need to do to be successful like they are?

 

[sport hydro]

After reading this topic and others that have posted on this forum, I would look at district locations. If you notice, districts that have longer race seasons, i.e.: Califonia, Florida..... They tend to have more turnout and more races. Other districts like the one I'm in(D4) our 07 schedule has 7 race weekends, four of which are 1 day races. Over the winter we lost two clubs due to lack of interest. Our club has lost at least 5 members in the three years I've been with them. We've only gotten 2 neew members in that same time.

Another problem is the narrow mindedness of some menbers. At a club meeting, the discussion of trying to get a nearby FE glub to come to one of our races and maybe run in an open class was met with the attatude by some of "we are nitro and gas, we don't want FE running with us". I was not one of them. I voiced my opinion that we should promote different forms of racing and not hinder it. I was told to not but in. This is what does not help to keep the sport going.

 

[330T]

The origination is setup very well with districts races never being all that far away, making it easy to some one to make it to a few events out side their own club races. The cost to become a member (IMPBA) and what they provide is very reasonable. IMPBA works very hard to include every boat anyone could dream up from .12 monos to twin riggers.

Now a few areas that could be improved upon.

I will agree that promotions or public awareness is a area that is in most need of improvement. If you go to a local hobby shop, buy a miss Vegas, or other RTR boat and you head down to a lake or pond you will do that for ever and never know the IMPBA or RC events exist.

I also think the cost of building a competitive boat may hinder the growth of our sport. Maybe more focus should be placed on “sport” classes. One just has to look at the popularity of the Sport B tunnel to know sport classes work.

 

[Brent Wyble]

I saw something that was a step in the right direction the other day. I bought a Hammer electric boat to use as a retrieval boat for my big gas boats and inside the box was a flyer for (I don’t remember what one) IMPBA and or NAMBA. That was a great way to inform a new boater where to look and also a place to find out about some of the safety rules.

Brent Wyble

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

I think all these points are good ones. I am in agreement that there is often no promotion with these events. Some club members don't want the hastle of crowds and I can understand that. But I would promote at least 1 race a year to bring in new members. Most larger towns have newspapers and local television that would love to cover an event like this. They will not require you to buy a little advertising but you probably will not get much coverage unless you do. The other thing I might add is that you can have a zillion one day races all summer and it will be fun for a while but you will eventually burn out the guys who do the lions share of the work. Have fiewer 1 day races and put more effort and money in a fiew 2 day races. Guys will travel farther for a 2 day race than a 1 day race.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Some club members don't want the hastle of crowds........

Which puts you on the fast track to no growth, & ultimately decline as others decide, for whatever reason, to call it quits. :huh:

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Some club members don't want the hastle of crowds and I can understand that.

No crowds!?!?! It's good feeling to bring your boat in to a enthusiastic ovation after a good race. It makes it the win all that more memorable and fun. If the facility is big enough to accomodate a well layed out plan then there shouldn't be a problem. Some of our races have a very narrow viewing area so specatators are forced to watch from a narron opening to the lake... but apart from an ocassional mention to direct people out of the hot pits I still wouldn't consider it a hassle.
Yah... that kind of thinking would eventually be the death of most clubs unfortunately. New members come from old spectators. If you weren't born into this... then everyone was a spectator just part of the crowd at one point.

So if promotion is one of the challenges can I put this on the table. How about everyone within mouse click of this message make a sincere effort to put up a flyer at the nearest, Hobby Shop, 7/11, Circle K, auto parts, or grocery store 3 weeks prior to your first race. It doesn't have to be fancy. Just put in Bold Letters "Boat Race". Above it put "Radio Control" in smaller but legible letters. Then below boat race put the date, time, location, and contact info. If possible ask the store owner if you can leave some on a counter somewhere as well.

Then... pass out at least 10 flyers to friends at work. Letting them know that you are trying to bring new awareness to the hobby and you asking for their support. Let them know the reasons you do it and why they might like it.

See if this works to start bringing in more people...

 

[David Homer]

I have been inactive for some time now, but I still come here on an almost daily basis just to see what is happening. I don't want to start a political p***'n match here, but I have always believed the major model boating organizations have missed the boat in regards to what is REALLY needed to increase our hobby/sport's growth and popularity.

I take a look at the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) as the example for what works. For the sake of simplicity and keeping this post short, let me highlight a couple of the things AMA does and our boating organizations cannot or will not do...

The AMA recognizes the fact that the vast majority of their membership does NOT enter competitions with their models. The way our boating organizations have been structured, the recreational boater has not only been pretty much shut out, but in some circles percieved to be a threat (not following safety/noise guidelines, bad public perception, liability issues, etc). I realize this whole issue is a big catch-22, but maybe, just maybe if we (established clubs) take steps to de-emphasize the racing part of the hobby and welcome those who just want to run for fun (we can teach safety/responsibility).. it would be a good first step.

Maybe the single biggest issue we as model powerboaters face is the shrinking number of available running sites. Not having a LOCAL (insured) place to run is the #1 club killer. We have historically been our own worst enemy in that regard. While the AMA was instituting noise and safety guidelines decades ago (recognizing the importance of procuring and keeping flying sites), we as boaters seemed blissfully ignorant until it was almost too late.. AMA has a full time staff dedicated to helping local clubs get and keep flying sites, and I have always felt this is where our boating organizations should have put their priorities.

I too have lamented the support of the LHS over the years. It's still business 101, the law of supply and demand, folks... It's not the LHS's fault.

I don't claim to have the solutions, I realize a lot of this is beyond our collective capabilities. But I also believe that if we as boaters take steps to study what DOES work and take steps to make things right..you never know..

 

[piper_chuck]

The areas I think we could do better in are:

Cost

This hobby doesn't need to be expensive, but in many ways it is. Continued work on enabling RTR and more "stock" classes can help make boating more affordable to more people.

Time

While 2 day races are fun, lots of people can't or won't invest 2 or 3 days in a row to the hobby. Club races can help this. Something else that could help is even shorter, perhaps 1/2 day get togethers.

Non-racing activity

Something else to consider is that there are many out there who like to run boats, and even enjoy the occasional race, but have no interest in formalized racing.

Accessability

That's a fancy word for making more ponds available. I currently have to drive 2 hours each way to get to my club pond. One has to be really dedicated to go so far. Many who might choose to race boats probably look at this and decide on something else that's closer to home. Something that actually hurts accessability is our own tendency to want bigger and faster. Smaller boats on smaller ponds could possibly be just as much fun and might increase our numbers.

Visibility

Already been talked about, but I agree it's a problem. Lots of people don't know where the nearest club is located.

Newcomer support

Most of the people in the hobby are great and welcome and assist newcomers. A few aren't. Clubs usually know who works well with beginners and they should ensure that they are the ones who help out, if possible.

New ideas

Sometimes new ideas are met with strong disagreement from long term, assertive boaters. While some of their ideas may be off the wall, others might have merit. Unfortunately, it's not at all uncommon for the newcomer's ideas to be squashed so strongly that they stop trying to make a difference. For example, I'm currently talking with someone outside the forums who is trying to increase boating in his area. There is already a club, but it's just about dead. For whatever reason, the club president is completely unwilling to hear the newcomer's ideas on how the club could be resurrected. I've made some suggestions that might help him. If these don't work, he may just try to start his own club.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

But I also believe that if we as boaters take steps to study what DOES work and take steps to make things right..you never know..

This is my hope and intent of this post. For all of us to take a good hard look at what "DOES" work and at least try to "IMPLEMENT" them. I don't think there is enough of this going around and we don't have to wait until we are the club commodore or district director to take charge and make a change. If this hobby does it's "OUR" fault but guess what if it lives it's "OUR" Fault. The power lies within the membership to make things better it's up to us... ALL OF US...

I like what I have heard so far. It is all very good input..

- short racing seasons in the east seem to cause some clubs to loose interest - perhaps make winter time building meetings part of season's schedule

- too much commitment to race- need a lighter alternative 1 Day race days maybe even half day fun days

- Hobby too expensive - Make entry level classes available

- Lack of promotion - Promote races with flyers

- Lack of race sites - Perhaps acquiring new race sites should be a mission at the district level.

- other boat factions turned away - Perhaps you should embrace those classes that are popular in your area.

- new guys discouraged because of old ways of thinking - Perhaps put new guys to work. Take advantage of their enthusiasm... guide them for everyone's benefit as a whole.

These are just a few of the obstacles and solutions that you all have come up with... Are there more?

 

[Roxyflash]

I think the biggest problem invovles costs to get into the hobby.To run at are lake you need to be a member then have IMPBA card,thats 75 right off the bat.Then comes the boat which once you see someone Like Chris Woods run they want to go fast.LOL Then you tell them the costs and where to get them from not the local Hobbytown!If you run nitro need to mail order fuel and plugs because you cant afford the plugs at local hobby shop prices and they dont have high nitro fuel.Either you have money or you dont.Now i know nothing about the fast electrics but i like gassers my self.In are dist.4 theres no real gas racing going on so i have nitro boats if i can afford to go racing.With money tight i cant afford to go racing as i need to pay my bills.I try to do a few but normally i have to pass.Two day racing is even harder to afford more cost involved in the stay over.This is where im at i love playing with the rc boats.Mostly a fun boat kinda person.Good luck with getting new blood into the sport as its not a easy task because of cost.

 

[riph]

Roger in Dist. 9 & 19 what is the average distance a person has to travel for a weekend race? Here in Texas it is 250 to 350 miles. In district 7 the race fees have gone to $25 for first boat and $10 for others. A two day race will cost about $500 in gas, hotel and food plus the cost of racing. I think these costs have driven quite a few guys away. I also think the motor and boat mfg. have priced their equipment out of reach of many boaters (of course they have to make a profit). We need more fun stuff where people can get together to run without it being balls to the wall competition and the newest speed trick equipment. We try to run too many classes but it seems people prefer to race 3 boats in many classes rather than a lot of boats in a few classes. The host club has a hard time sponsoring a race with 17 to 20 boat classes with 3 or 4 boats in each.

Whats the answer???? Run less classes by making open races that combine several classes. Cut race fees by lowering the trophy costs by giving a 1st place trophy and ribbons for 2nd & 3rd. Give out the small plates that now go each trophy and the winner can buy a wood plack and glue them on. Have more fun races that do not give trophys but have challenge heats. Run more "Run What You Brung" races. I hate the word "stock" but run more stock classes or perhaps entry level classes such as the new OB and small sport hydros.

I have really studied this problem the past few years and sure do not have the fix all answer but I think all out competition for a trophy by a few has turned off the majority that go to races for fun and fellowship. Cheating, politics and costs are killers.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Roger in Dist. 9 & 19 what is the average distance a person has to travel for a weekend race?

District 9 is very fortunate to have several lakes within 150 or so miles of each other. But this isn't just dumb luck. A lot of leg work was put in years ago to get these sites and people have also done a lot of smoozing to keep them. Our prime site is maintained by Gary Crawford who even presents the Alameda Water District (the governing body for the race site) a plaque of appreciation. Things like this make it hard for someone to shut you down when the neighbors come calling about noise, wild endangerment, and pollution. I have also joined in by inviting the entire city council out to a race. The last two Mayors drove a boat and one Vice Mayor drove a boat. The Vice Mayor has turned out to be a very good Ally in one of the new sites we are pursuing. Now without us being their we have allies at every city council meeting just in case someone tries to shut us down. Like I said.

Things like this don't just fall into your lap... and they certainly won't stay if you don't take care of them. I am in the process of securing two more sites within the same 150 mile radius. We have another member working on revitalizing and old site which would make three. There are also other sites that just have guys showing up on the weekends just to have fun.

We also have more of a family atmosphere. Dad, Mom, son, daughter, and even grandpa run at our races. Someone is almost always cooking a meal for all to take part in and many of our members hang out away from racing, going camping, fishing, and just getting together and having dinner every once in a while. Don't get me wrong... we have a little bit of everything that everyone here says is going wrong... we just try to make up for it by attempting to do more things right.

District 19 is not so fortunate as far as race travel. I beleive there average drive time is much like yours. They have had some fall in numbers as result of cost of travel but that still doesn't keep the local club from putting on a race, from what I understand. Just less people show up. Nevetheless they remain very active in many classes.

At one time District 9 an D19 were one district. I was young then but I think we were split up so people would not have to drive so far.

So D9 does have a less than average travel distance but people put in a lot of work to make it that way.