B Sport rule change

[moparbarn]

ok, i finally checked my rule book. "stock appearing" IS NOT in the wording. i think i may be remembering some talk about what woud be allowed at the WTC concerning trimmed skegs on lower units. so the os muffler swap is legal, sorry that my failing memory caused any confusion......there is no wording about internal mods, except the total displacement. so, depending on your budget, skill/knowledge, or engine builder's expertise - the sky is the limit with oem parts. i agree with mark, the max in-out rule is not creating parity. a dead stock/can't touch anything rule would just create a os class (which it is pretty much already), k&b's would be far behind. i mod my k&b engines as much as i can & still get RELIABLE performance. at local district races i do well, won the d-12 championship in sport 20 tunnel with my k&b. but, at a national event i usually end up in the latter part of the top 10(6,7,8). os is a modern design, while k&b has been stagnant for 20+ years. i'm not sure you will ever get parity with the engines offered. it's kinda like running a flathead ford against a late model hemi, guess who's winning? if you want to win, it's gonna cost money, just like any form of racing. until some other manufacturer steps up like os has, it will continue to be a one horse parade. basic tunnel cost is between $600-$900 (and up) from scratch, plus starting equip., fuel, memberships, etc. - not my idea of a beginner's class. you want a driver's & setup class? create a "spec" class. 1 hull, 1 engine, 1 prop - jmho. all this discussion is the same as ANY form of racing i've done over the last 50+ years. the more you try to make it simple, affordable & something close to stock BUT still allow ANY modifications, the more people will throw dollars at it to win. that's what i see being the big issues facing b sport tunnel racing growing. it IS serious racing, & prolly not for beginners. or at least not beginners expecting to do well right away.

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

ok, i finally checked my rule book. "stock appearing" IS NOT in the wording. i think i may be remembering some talk about what woud be allowed at the WTC concerning trimmed skegs on lower units. so the os muffler swap is legal, sorry that my failing memory caused any confusion......there is no wording about internal mods, except the total displacement. so, depending on your budget, skill/knowledge, or engine builder's expertise - the sky is the limit with oem parts. i agree with mark, the max in-out rule is not creating parity. a dead stock/can't touch anything rule would just create a os class (which it is pretty much already), k&b's would be far behind. i mod my k&b engines as much as i can & still get RELIABLE performance. at local district races i do well, won the d-12 championship in sport 20 tunnel with my k&b. but, at a national event i usually end up in the latter part of the top 10(6,7,8). os is a modern design, while k&b has been stagnant for 20+ years. i'm not sure you will ever get parity with the engines offered. it's kinda like running a flathead ford against a late model hemi, guess who's winning? if you want to win, it's gonna cost money, just like any form of racing. until some other manufacturer steps up like os has, it will continue to be a one horse parade. basic tunnel cost is between $600-$900 (and up) from scratch, plus starting equip., fuel, memberships, etc. - not my idea of a beginner's class. you want a driver's & setup class? create a "spec" class. 1 hull, 1 engine, 1 prop - jmho. all this discussion is the same as ANY form of racing i've done over the last 50+ years. the more you try to make it simple, affordable & something close to stock BUT still allow ANY modifications, the more people will throw dollars at it to win. that's what i see being the big issues facing b sport tunnel racing growing. it IS serious racing, & prolly not for beginners. or at least not beginners expecting to do well right away.

Robin has voiced what I feel is the basic challenge regarding encouraging new model boats to become involved in nitro racing - cost. However, this is a topic that has been discussed at length in other posts.

JD

 

[Bob Kensill]

Just an idea, but how about if some of you (and me) seasoned racers sell your old boats (as you get new ones) ready to run and maybe help the new guy get used to driving it, And how about giving a new racer a better price that you would give to another veteran. I lead by example. I gave a Top Speed 3 RTR with a K&B SS outboard and a Futaba 2.4 radio to a 10 year old boy. It may not be an OS powered Lynx, but it will be more than fast enough for him. This was part of my Christmas offering. Maybe some of you can get together and combine your parts to make a new boater happy.

 

[Grimracer]

I have Bob.. I bet allot of us at this for a time have given a few away..

AND..

IMPBA sport tunnel IS AND NEVER WAS a beginners class.. how in the heck does that keep coming up..

Grim

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

I agree. My fastest kayak is 21 feet long, 17 inches wide is made with epoxy resin, cored throughout with hex core, vaccum bagged and has carbon reinforcement in key areas. Brand new $2800.

Yeah, I think at lot of people look at a 28 inch tunnel and their chin hits the floor when they are told $400 for the hull.

 

[moparbarn]

Just an idea, but how about if some of you (and me) seasoned racers sell your old boats (as you get new ones) ready to run and maybe help the new guy get used to driving it, And how about giving a new racer a better price that you would give to another veteran. I lead by example. I gave a Top Speed 3 RTR with a K&B SS outboard and a Futaba 2.4 radio to a 10 year old boy. It may not be an OS powered Lynx, but it will be more than fast enough for him. This was part of my Christmas offering. Maybe some of you can get together and combine your parts to make a new boater happy.

i was going to buy that boat from john at the herb stewart race. when i heard you were interested, i backed out. i knew it wasn't for you, you DO lead by example!

 

[Bob Kensill]

Mike

I agree with you that it was never meant to be a " beginner " class. I prefer to compare it to NASCAR. Stock appearing was the intent, with no inspection tear down.

 

[moparbarn]

bob, check out F.A.S.T.(factory appearing stock tire) drag racing. a better comparasion, imo.

 

[dave roach]

Well years ago this all got F'd up when some one desided to make it a SPORTS CLASS and not keeping it box stock class as it was.This is when all the s*** started.

My .002 Cents

Dave

 

[Grimracer]

Dave,

Fill us in on IMPBA "stock".. this must have been pre 1997..

This was about the time I started traveling to races..

Grim

 

[Bob Kensill]

Mike

It was at the 1997 Internats in Elmyra New York. I was Outboard Director, and was asked to make a proposal for "Stock Class" at the board meeting. Little did ii know that the president had secretly asked some other guys to come up with the "Sport Class" rules. I made my proposal and then was blindsided by the secret proposal. I spent a lot of time researching K&B parts and talked to them on the phone several times to get all the part specifications before typing all those pages. There was, in my opinion, no intention of making a stock class at all. I knew all the people involved in the sport class rules, but was never contacted for my input. I had been Outboard Director since 1986, and that ended my term. A little historical information. There no outboard classes in the rule book in 1986. We were referred to as "Lesser Boaters" by one board member. I believe that K&B introduced the .21 outboard in 1976. There was a stock class at the 1997 Internats. Two well known racers were disqualified for illegal engined, one for using lock washers on factory bolts, and the other for using a long glow plug in a short plug head. I won my first U.S.-1 in B Tunnel that year. To this day, B Sport Tunnel, B Mod Tunnel and D Mod Tunnel seem to be the most popular classes at the Internats. I believe that the WTC is one of the largest attended races every year. Not too bad for "Lesser Boaters".

 

[Grimracer]

Tanks Bob.. learned some new stuff from that post. I now understand why I was told my proposal for Tommy Lee to be accepted into the hall of fame was a pipe dream... (by somebody no longer active in the IMPBA)

I would say.. the IMPBA has loosened its attitude towards outboard racing over the last 15 or so years. I have never felt like a lesser boater or treated like a lesser boater in anyway by anybody in my time with the IMPBA.

old water over the bridge...

We have had past pres. as OB racers as well as our current sec...

To me.. as much as I like OB racing (all model power boat racing truth be told) I have never felt I needed to defend my self as an OB racer in the eyes of the IMPBA.

On we go.. lets race

Grim

 

[bzubee]

One of the reasons the "Stock class" never really worked there were many versions you would literally have to call a CD and ask what their version of "Stock rules" were, and none were enforced no one ever had thier engines checked . The only way a "Stock class" will ever work is with mandatory tear downs and inspections.

 

[El Zorro]

Bob, your memory seems to be a bit more fuzzy than mine. I was the President of IMPBA at that time and NEVER did I go behind your back or anyone else's to get rules implemented, changed, etc. I have to assume that the Stock Outboard rules that were used at the 1997 Internats came from and were approved by the IMPBA Board. And yes, you are correct about 2 well known boaters being tossed during tech inspection in the B Stock Outboard class. One of those persons came to my motel room afterwards that evening pleading with me to "do something". Rules are rules. It was obvious to me that we needed a better set of rules for this class and that is why I asked you Bob, the Outboard Director for IMPBA at the time, to come up with a better set of rules for that class. The next year at the 1998 Huntsville Internats Board meeting, I asked you if you had come up with a new set of rules for the B Stock Outboard class. You had NOTHING. It was at that meeting that I asked Rod Geraghty and Tommy Lee to come up with a set of rules that would work for this class ( which they did ). I was very disappointed with you not having a set of rules for this class after having a whole year to put something together. You knew most of the outboard guys at that time . You were in touch with the people at K&B and knew what was going on there. You were our guy to get the right things done. And here at the Board meeting you let me down and I let the organization down. Bob, you are a stand-up guy who has added a lot to model boating for a lot of years. You are certainly a Hall of Famer in my book and I respect you for all that you have done for model boating and especially the outboard classes. But at that Board meeting at the 1998 Internats you let me and the IMPBA Board down by not doing your job.

Dick Tyndall

 

[dave roach]

Dick

That is what I heard today from a boater.He filled me in all the things that went on.

Dave

 

[SayMikey]

Well moving on,I feel the rules Rod and Tommy came up with have worked flawlessly for a lot of years.And I feel the new change should help members and c/ds run a good race.......

 

[dave roach]

Grimracer

And to your question.I have been in this hobby

for 30 years.I remember racing in Clarkville ,In 30 years ago With Gary Preusse and back then It was 3.5 stock outboard tunnel.You took a 3.5 K&B out of the box and bolded it on you tunnel and off racing you went.That was in 1985.

Dave

 

[dave roach]

The CD of every race should have go-no go gages and check all 3.5 outboards before the race.

Dave

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

Take a deep breath and step back out of the 'engine fuss' for a moment. Have any of you guys ever noticed when we race Mod-VP that no one has a clear advantage? Vision, OMC, HTV, Longboard have all had their day at the races, as well as K&B, Thunder Tiger and OS in this class.

You know why? Because the BOAT is the limiting factor.

For a truly level tunnel class have 3 rules.....Any 3.5 engine no pipes. Minimum boat length 34 inches. And decide on a minimum weight but do so without turning the boat into a brick. This would eliminate any fuss over the engine, level the playing field for anyone and now you also have boats that will perform when the water is rough. (more boats finish)

Just thinking out loud...lol

Instead of trying to limit and police 30 years and 5 brands of engines, now all you have to do is measure the boat.

 

[bzubee]

Your correct Dave and also check after each heat easy to change a powerhead. Also any stock type class be it GAS, FE, or Nitro needs to have the CD tech all winning contestants! I know th eGas classes that use "stock" engines are seldom if ever inspected.

The CD of every race should have go-no go gages and check all 3.5 outboards before the race.

Dave