B Sport rule change

[Grimracer]

I know. lol.. just yanking.... most however have NO clue who they are...

Grim

 

[dave roach]

Robin

You are wright.No air cooled muffler on a water cooled engine.

 

[Grimracer]

Regarding the purpose of this change (read Purpose below), please somebody fill me in on how this brings IMPBA sport outboard tunnel rules in line with NAMBA... really I might be missing something. As i "understand" NAMBA A stock.. this does not look to accomplish this..

It does however look to meet the other two.. Replacement and inspection.. This I can see.. Just want some clarification on the other.



Most know Im not in favor or aligning IMPBA and NAMBA but if this does It would be good to understand how the change does or will.

Purpose:

To make it easier for racers to buy replacement parts, to make inspection easier, and to bring IMPBA Sport

Outboard Tunnel rules in line with NAMBA A Stock Outboard rules.

Current Rule: (Note..Old Rule : MZ)

3. The engine external parts shall remain as originally manufactured within series except as shown in

Part 4. Clarification: No water-cooled engine parts shall be used with air-cooled engine parts.

Common engine parts that are used on both engines models may be interchanged. Slide valve

exhaust adapters may not be used with carburetor equipped engines.

4. The following exceptions will be allowed in the Sport Outboard Tunnel specifications:

a. Adhesives (loctite), set screws and jam nuts.

b. Any carb linkage arms.

c. Any motor mount.

d. Any glow plug, fuel brand and mixture.

e. Any type steering arm.

f. Any flywheel nut.

g. The lower unit below the cavitation plate may be trimmed, sharpened or polished. No

material shall be added to the lower unit.

h. Adjustable mixture controls will be allowed, however the original needle valve must remain

in its original position.

Proposed Changes Highlighted: (Note..New voted Rule: MZ)

3. The engine external parts shall remain as originally manufactured, but any part from a

manufacturer’s outboard may be replaced with any other outboard part for the same size outboard

from the same manufacturer, the exception being that slide valve exhaust adapters may not be

used with carburetor equipped engines.

4. The following exceptions will be allowed in the Sport Outboard Tunnel specifications:

a. Adhesives (loctite), set screws and jam nuts.

b. Any carb linkage arms.

c. Any motor mount.

d. Any glow plug, fuel brand and mixture.

e. Any type steering arm.

f. The factory color finish may be altered or removed as an appearance alteration.

g. Any flywheel nut.

h. The lower unit below the cavitation plate may be trimmed, sharpened or polished. No

material shall be added to the lower unit.

i. Adjustable mixture controls will be allowed, however the original needle valve must remain

in its original position.

 

[rumrunner]

That means Dave and robin I can use a air-cooled can on a water-cooled motor . That's what the new rules allow . For some reason i couldn't vote but I would have voted no , I don't think with the change there will be any new racers in sport b it just opens a can of worms .

 

[Grimracer]

but you cannot do that in NAMBA....... or am I wrong..

Grim

 

[rumrunner]

Can of worms!!!!!!!

 

[gooycheese]

I don't do tunnels but I personnaly didn't know anyone in favor of this proposal.... and not real happy the "official" voting results are being released 17min after the impba president says its gonna be a few days for results.

When will see how the actual vote went.... by the numbers.

 

[Mike Larson]

oh boy.....

 

[Grimracer]

always the right voice Paul.. lets wait and see.

Lets RACE!

Grim

 

[ZZ RACING]

I don't do tunnels but I personnaly didn't know anyone in favor of this proposal.... and not real happy the "official" voting results are being released 17min after the impba president says its gonna be a few days for results.

When will see how the actual vote went.... by the numbers.

Like I already posted. The OFFICIAL results will be posted on the IMPBA site soon. It takes time to count and verify all the votes.

 

[Grimracer]

Thanks Juice!

Grim

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

but you cannot do that in NAMBA....... or am I wrong..

Grim

You're wrong. In NAMBA, you could trade out the stock muffler on a w/c O.S. for the air cooled muffler. Or, trade out the stock muffler on the a/c for a w/c cooled muffler. As long as the parts were OEM at some point, it's "Mix & Match" to your heart's content. Not sure I've ever known a truly competitive model boat racer with a "contented heart."

JD

 

[Grimracer]

So this must be true regarding K+B too?.. thanks Dunny.

Dunny.. does this include ALL parts of all motors in that size line.. Heads, carbs, and what not.

Grim

 

[Grimracer]

maybe then... the next question is..

How well is the mix and match NAMBA OPC "Stock" class doing?

club turn outs

District turn outs

Nats turn outs.

It might be.. that NAMBAs turnouts FAR surpass those of IMBPA. or maybe IMPBA far surpasses NAMBA. do we know?. I don't...

Every race I have been to in the last 15 years or so (all IMPBA) have had sport tunnel AT LEAST field a flight of sport tunnels. Club, Dist and nats and specialty races, Hobart and the like... Sport Tunnel is doing very well in IMPBA.. I suspect NAMBA Stock is doing the same...

Give us some insight Dunny.. I just want to better understand..

Ron (NAMBA)... Bob (IMPBA).. do we have a good feeling of numbers.

I am TRULY trying to get an understanding and NOT trying to turn this into a pissing match.. Why would we.. The IMPBA want to better align with NAMBA.... is there program pulling better numbers?

Grim

 

[lohring]

NAMBA has always allowed a mix of K&B (or any other manufacturer's) parts as long as they all came from the same manufacturer. One of the favorite was the small K&B flywheel on any 7.5 engine. Another was a smaller carb on the Red Head Pro engine. People with close ties to K&B were rumored to measure parts at the factory to assemble a "super" engine. I never saw that this freedom made up for poor driving.

All that this does in the OS case is to allow a conversion to the new engine without needing to buy a complete outboard. Since K&B's demise, the mix and match rule isn't going to make much difference. There aren't enough parts to mix and match from any one manufacturer.

It seems to me that any tunnel class other than the 3.5 cc ones are dead. OS, and in my club the Thunder Tiger, are the only newer engines. The old guys still have some K&B stock left, but it's mostly gone. Tunnel classes are a lot smaller than in the old days. District 8 is lucky to get a full flight in any class.

Lohring Miller

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

Obviously the intent is good, which is to have engines that are made with OEM parts (even if you mix them between air and water cooled)

Here is my concern with this class......

With no teardown of a 'stock apperaing' engine how does anyone know what is on the inside? Anyone with machining knowledge can punch out a case and slide in a bigger sleeve or a sleeve from another engine, make custom rods, make bore and stroke changes, customize a head button shape and even make your own crank. THIS is where the can of worms is and this is why a newcomer gets his sponsons blown off in a class of unpiped engines.

I have seen boats in this class perform at a level to where NO engine with OEM parts could get to.

You want to keep a class like this in check, use the protest rule. I believe many have mistaken the B Sport no tear down to mean no protest. That has allowed the use of "super" engines that are outside the parameters of a .21 OEM engine.

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

maybe then... the next question is..

How well is the mix and match NAMBA OPC "Stock" class doing?

club turn outs

District turn outs

Nats turn outs.

It might be.. that NAMBAs turnouts FAR surpass those of IMBPA. or maybe IMPBA far surpasses NAMBA. do we know?. I don't...

Every race I have been to in the last 15 years or so (all IMPBA) have had sport tunnel AT LEAST field a flight of sport tunnels. Club, Dist and nats and specialty races, Hobart and the like... Sport Tunnel is doing very well in IMPBA.. I suspect NAMBA Stock is doing the same...

Give us some insight Dunny.. I just want to better understand.. As far as outboard racing on the West Coast, as Lohring said participation has been lacking in Districts 8, 9, and 19. At the 2014 NAMBA Nats we had enough boats for two heats a round. Nitro model boating in general has taken a big hit here in District 8. The best tunnel boat racing I've experienced the past 4 years has been at Hobart. I do not believe the newly passed IMPBA Sport 20 Tunnel rules will "singly" enhance the performance of an O.S. engine. In my opinion, internal modifications to the engine allowed in IMPBA 20 Sport Tunnel would provide a more noticeable power gain than slapping an air cooled muffler on a water cooled engine or an air cooled engine with a water cooled muffler. Does an IMPBA 20 Sport Tunnel need to have internal modifications to be competitive? No, Grim has proven that hull set up, efficient propeller, and good driving using a stock O.S. 21 is a winning formula.

JD

Ron (NAMBA)... Bob (IMPBA).. do we have a good feeling of numbers.

I am TRULY trying to get an understanding and NOT trying to turn this into a pissing match.. Why would we.. The IMPBA want to better align with NAMBA.... is there program pulling better numbers?

Grim

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

Obviously the intent is good, which is to have engines that are made with OEM parts (even if you mix them between air and water cooled)

Here is my concern with this class......

With no teardown of a 'stock apperaing' engine how does anyone know what is on the inside? Anyone with machining knowledge can punch out a case and slide in a bigger sleeve or a sleeve from another engine, make custom rods, make bore and stroke changes, customize a head button shape and even make your own crank. THIS is where the can of worms is and this is why a newcomer gets his sponsons blown off in a class of unpiped engines.

I have seen boats in this class perform at a level to where NO engine with OEM parts could get to.

You want to keep a class like this in check, use the protest rule. I believe many have mistaken the B Sport no tear down to mean no protest. That has allowed the use of "super" engines that are outside the parameters of a .21 OEM engine.

When Rod Geraghty and a couple of others formulated the original IMPBA 20 Sport Tunnel Class rules, I do not think they envisioned the internal enhancement issues that Mark has addressed. Although I did not participate in the drafting of the rules, I was part of the conversation. Part of the conversation was that by restricting the carb intake size and exhaust outlet size to then existing OEM specs that this would negate internal performance modifications. I don't think the "In and Out" equalizer theory is valid. At IMPBA events I have attened, I have also witness the same performance levels as mentioned by Mark.

JD

 

[Will Duncan]

Drill one hole in two of the bolts that secure the engine to the lower and run a 3/8" lead wire seal, pull snug and crimp!

Top three at the end of major event pop the tops off, check bore/stroke, as well as carb and muffler.

If anyone needs to change a motor, that motor needs to be impounded immediately and have the bore/stroke checked as well as carb and muffler. New motor bolted up and re sealed.

More time involved... Yes

How else do you go about making sure the things Poole, Dunlap, and a few others feel are happening are not and everyone is playing fair?

 

[dave roach]

The ones that talk about it doesn't play fair.I have seen it time and time agian.

Dave