AQ 36-56-2030 (UL-1) MOTOR

[MrHammerHead]

How about a rule like P/L 2030 KV and under, Max 60amp ESC non adj ,any manufacture???????????? Someone just let everyone know before end of JAN... Hello MR. Harris

D/L

I will not be drug into the ESC debate, especially here. There are no official rules in the IMPBA for P-LTD anyway, so even if I were to be elected I would still have no say in what the different Districts rules are for this class. Do whatever is working in your District and go race.

I will say this though about motor/ ESC prices. I have been in FE for almost 23 years and when brushless power first came around the minimum price for a BL system (motor/ESC) was over $400.00. Then the European motors and ESC's got popular and became a must have and then we were talking over $700.00 for a good combo.

The prices now for this stuff is dirt cheap with very similar performance to what we were using then. I see no reason to throw out a combo that's working for P-LTD to save $20-$50 overall.

Eventually, ALL motor prices will go up as the production runs that were built when the magnets were cheaper finally get sold off and the new runs hit the market.

Chris

 

[Mark Leyde]

Here you go Marty.

http://hyperprod.bizhosting.com/3_5_os_electric_conversion_kit.html

 

[Dick Loeb]

I give up on this topic. I was kidding about changing something that works 2.5 yrs on the same elec parts 3 world records ,1 WTC ,1 Dist 12 high Point and another full season of racing B mod boats all with all with the same motor and ESC, why would I change ! I was kidding , this is the cheapest racing anyone can do ....

D/L

 

[MrHammerHead]

Fair enough Dick, however there were other comments about prices of motors ealier in this thread which is really where that was directed to.

Chris

 

[Marty Slater]

thanks Mark

will look into this some more

Marty

 

[chuckg]

I don't see why the motor and esc choices can't be opened up a bit within reason. It would be easy to specify motor dimensions and kv along with amp limitations for esc's. I can get 2 T60 amp esc's for the price of 1 AQ esc and 3 for the price of 1 PB esc. As for timing options on the esc's the AQ is fixed but the PB has a choice of low/high. Smart folks will choose a timing best for the motor/esc combo being used and will not give that great of an advantage over others but it will prolong the life of the equipment being used.

Just my .02

 

[Kris Flynn]

I would bet the AQ 60 speedy will live longer than the T60...

 

[chuckg]

I would bet the AQ 60 speedy will live longer than the T60...

That may be true now since AQ modified theirs but why not have the choice? I have since added caps to the AQ controllers even though they put a larger one in the newer ones. I have found the Turnigy's to be very dependable.

 

[Grimracer]

I have to ask.. cuz I really don’t know.. What does Spec stand for and in particular.. Spec FE RC boating?

I have a feeling it has many different meanings.. to many different people.

And.. just hear me out.. love it hate it or call me names..

What "IF" Proboat and AquaCraft got together and made a class for FE RC boat racing.. let call it "The Factory Class” or classes?

Im not tring to add more classes.. just trying to get an idea of what FE boating looks like or “might” look like in the coming years.. Cuz what I see is nothing but open racing again.. and it looks like it coming very soon.

Thoughts?

Grim

 

[SeanKewley]

I have to ask.. cuz I really don’t know.. What does Spec stand for and in particular.. Spec FE RC boating?

I have a feeling it has many different meanings.. to many different people.

And.. just hear me out.. love it hate it or call me names..

What "IF" Proboat and AquaCraft got together and made a class for FE RC boat racing.. let call it "The Factory Class” or classes?

Im not tring to add more classes.. just trying to get an idea of what FE boating looks like or “might” look like in the coming years.. Cuz what I see is nothing but open racing again.. and it looks like it coming very soon.

Thoughts?

Grim

We “P-Limited” racers don’t have to worry about such philosophical issues. We don’t spec anything. We just limit certain things.

I’m all for a true Factory class like they run in Evansville with the Miss Vegas boats.

 

[DPeterson]

Tried a few times to promote and initiate 3 class types. Stock, Limited and Open. Stock is of course the factory box stock. Limited is what I would call the Spec motor class. Open is of course open motor etc.

Have not been able to get anyone to think out of the box and get rid of the silly letter designations.

I too would run a Factory/Stock boat or two. Factory/Stock would be a radio change only along with a specced prop. I would continue to run P-Limited/Limited boats providing the only spec is the motor.

The times we ran 5-6 Supervees in a heat was the best racing fun I have encountered.

Later - Doug

Edited - Meant to say Limited and not Modified.

 

[HTV Boats]

I feel spec or limited are just that, attempts to level competition by legislating certain power criteria. Problem is what makes sense to one does not to others and we wind up arguing more than racing. Leveling does have merit but in the end the guys who know props,hulls and their way around the race course will still win more often. You just can't make a class for inexperienced newcomers to step right in and be at the top no matter what equipment is provided. RTR is a good starting point but the new guy gets thrown in with people who just make anything run well. To see a racer with 10 or more years experience mop up an RTR class is not level either. Maybe why drag racing went to "bracket racing" which I never liked but the little guy could still run on the same track as sponsored racers. FE regulated classes are giving people an opportunity to sample sparkie racing and we all have a bit of the "Tim the toolman" mentality which translates into "improving" or modifying. At the end of the tunnel (no pun intended) we just go to open classes limited by size or in FE's case voltage.

I like the stock/sport 21 nitro class tunnels. If we enforced true NAMBA rules in Florida the class wouldn't exist. New guys don't step in and beat the Otto's and Premo's, not because of motor limitations but setup. Yes their motor run flawless but they would hold their own with handout powerheads. Still we get new racers every year there.

To address Mike's hypothetical "factory class", for boats it would be hard as so many hull builders including scratch builders would be eliminated. I think boat racing is more about the hulls than power in or on the back. If Aquacraft wanted to do something cool bring 8 UL-1's and 8 SV27's and 8 spec powered TS-3's to national events and then take 8 top hydro, mono & tunnel drivers and make a true IROC competiton. 3 heats, one in each style of boat and crown a driving champion. Make it an invitational at Hobart, Legg Lake or Charleston. Auction them off afterward for charity. Might draw some media coverage.

The curent NAMBA limited rules are working and IMPBA local rules work locally. Be really nice if FE could do what has not been done in nitro or gas and create one unified rule structure countrywide. Probably not going to happen

Mic

 

[Doug Smock]

I have to ask.. cuz I really don’t know.. What does Spec stand for and in particular.. Spec FE RC boating?

I have a feeling it has many different meanings.. to many different people.

And.. just hear me out.. love it hate it or call me names..

What "IF" Proboat and AquaCraft got together and made a class for FE RC boat racing.. let call it "The Factory Class” or classes?

Im not tring to add more classes.. just trying to get an idea of what FE boating looks like or “might” look like in the coming years.. Cuz what I see is nothing but open racing again.. and it looks like it coming very soon.

Thoughts?

Grim

We “P-Limited” racers don’t have to worry about such philosophical issues. We don’t spec anything. We just limit certain things.

I’m all for a true Factory class like they run in Evansville with the Miss Vegas boats.

Exactly Sean!!

Mike to me "Spec" is "Specified" and means exactly that. Everyone runs the same factory boat.

Same hull, power system, hardware, prop, battery, radio, etc.

Big hit with the SV27 remember?

Going back to work on something that IS broken.

See ya at the pond!!

Doug

 

[Grimracer]

Doug.. thats what I think too..

Having said this.. IF.. AQUA and Pro got together to "come up with something"... all the "rules hashing" would be done before any of you ever saw a boat.

I also feel.. IF we (aquaCraft)s boat is "not good enough" or has some kind of problem (lets use the fuel tank of the Miss Vegas as a for instance). We would be more inclined to deal with it because it "COULD" hamper sales…. Right now.. we just (write it out of the rules) then the new guy has to deal with it.. not us (just a general comment.. we do our best)

Anyway.. I was just wondering..

Thanks guys!

Grim

 

[Tim leyde]

Spec to me means you have to be within certain specifications such as motor size hall size and battery size. Sorry to disagree just my thought.

TL

 

[Grimracer]

yea.. just like.. Mod Nitro Tunnel... no disagreement from me!



Displacement and hull style.. Hum.. is this what Spec is? Not sure its "Spec" but it is specified, as are all other criteria to an RC boat class.



What then, makes "Spec" different? Cost?.. na.. however it is nice to race cheaper.. we all like that no matter what class you run.



New people.. na.. as much as we like to think this, thats not it. Having said this the easer the class is to get into (easer to understand) the better for all.



I think Sean and Doug S nailed it..



I do have to say.. Doug P has a great thought going.. someday we need to have a cold one over that line of thinking Doug!



Grim

 

[Flyguy55]

P Spec was often used before the NAMBA rules were proposed . NAMBA rules use P limited to solve the confusion. Not spec classes , limited classes .

NAMBA rules limits the motors to the existing RTR motors from Pro Boat and Aquacraft .

I agree about the SV 27 classes , good racing . Great fun . A big class at the 2010 NAMBA Nats .

Id like to see Newland form a Tech Comittee to review what motors would be legal as needed . right now no need to change .

Dick

 

[Tim leyde]

I would have to say leave it as is for now. If a different manufacturer makes a comparable motor to the PB/AQ. Then it would have to be voted on to run in NAMBA (if anyone would choose to). Or be coated on by the local club in IMPBA. Until then it seems what is going on is working. I personally like having the choice to run whatever ESC I want (let's not get into that debate, please). I hope if IMPBA ever has rules they keep the ESC open.

I never ment to be difficult on this thread, just keeping an open mind to the options that are out there.

TL

 

[D. Newland]

...Id like to see Newland form a Tech Comittee to review what motors would be legal as needed . right now no need to change .

Dick

Dick-We've talked about this in person a few times and now I will respond publicly about it.

I do not have the time, desire or authority to undertake something like this.

No thank you.

For all,

What we have now is working. It's not perfect and not everyone can be made happy, but it's working. Enough FE Racers have the desire and perspective to make it work, rather than to look for changes or poke holes in it.

It would be fantastic to have everyone on board, but I know how these things go.

If/when we are put in a position to review NAMBA's 6 legal P-Ltd motor selection, it will be discussed lake-side with racers. Not on a public forum. Anyone who takes issue with that, just go through this thread again, start to finish. You will then start to gain a solid understanding that any public discussions that can even remotely be interpreted as "moving the cheese" aren't going to go over very well, even if there is a very solid reason for doing so. Which, in this case, there isn't and I think we all know that.

For the integrity of P-Ltd racing, both in IMPBA and NAMBA, it is beneficial to FE for all of us to be on the same page. There are plenty of other Power Parameter classes to play in that are "Open" if P-Ltd isn't your cup of tea or if you find it too frustrating, too loose, not loose enough, too specific, not specific enough, not tech'd properly...etc etc.

Yes-input is nice, but NAMBA rules are in place and as they say, it is what it is. I would rather those that have the desire to ask for change focus more of their energy trying to get what's written to work for them. IMPBA and all local clubs can obviously do as they choose, but I will say that you will find benefit to get as close to what is written as possible.

I don't mean this as a slam and I give my sincere apologies to anyone that may take offense to this post. But, trust me, I know every angle and argument about NAMBA's P-Ltd rules that one can come up with. I'm asking those people that want to race in P-Ltd classes to get on the same page and have a solid understanding that not everyone can be made 100% happy (including you...and me), especially when dealing with a "limited" class. There just aren't enough of us to do it any other way.

 

[Tim leyde]

Just wondering if IMPBA is close to having some spec rules in place?

TL