RodneyPierce
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Its OK ed, actually our own Dave Roach might have me taken care of. We will see. One way or another I will have another sport 20 boat.
Whiplash build pictures
- Thread starter RodneyPierce
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mark voorhies
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Rodney, bad deal with your new boat, alot of hard work gone, most likely got some bad epoxy.
It does happen, had some I bought from LHS never cured, stayed gummy, also I think there is a
shelf life on certain brands, as far as water proof, just stick with marine type, check with supplier
on that, I do have a place to get small amounts from , not to high dollar, it's a sample kit from a marine supplier:
https://www.ndic.com/systemthree/trial_kits.asp
and it is definitely fuel proof
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waltr
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Rod,
That sucks.There's a ton of work lost there.I know,I've done one.
As far as epoxys go, Use Mas Epoxy on your next one.It's recomended by Brian and he sells it too.
It's thinner than West systems,so it saturates into the wood better. It also lays down smoother than West.It's a win-win.
Check with Brian.
That sucks.There's a ton of work lost there.I know,I've done one.
As far as epoxys go, Use Mas Epoxy on your next one.It's recomended by Brian and he sells it too.
It's thinner than West systems,so it saturates into the wood better. It also lays down smoother than West.It's a win-win.
Check with Brian.
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madam lash
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- Jan 17, 2007
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Rodney,
So sorry to hear what happened.
Having built mine rapidly to throw it in at the Oz Nationals, unfortunately yours copped one of my fears.
Sounds like you have a plan though, so just like falling off a horse!!!
Keep us posted with your future success.
So sorry to hear what happened.
Having built mine rapidly to throw it in at the Oz Nationals, unfortunately yours copped one of my fears.
Sounds like you have a plan though, so just like falling off a horse!!!
Keep us posted with your future success.
nitrolouie
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- Jan 30, 2007
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Wow thats a bummer, my brother and I are in the middle of our Whip builds. Gonna go check everything again, since i had a bad batch of epoxy on a glass boat repair I recently made. :angry:
Jim Caldwell
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- Aug 16, 2004
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A SEALED can of epoxy has a shelf life of 1 year, best to buy from a full size distributor ( West marine, Boaters World ect.) as they are very aware of this and send old stock back to the Mfg.
I have never had any luck with ANY hobby shop epoxy, too many hours in a build to not use the good stuff.
I have never had any luck with ANY hobby shop epoxy, too many hours in a build to not use the good stuff.
dannyual767
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- May 27, 2004
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Wow, epoxy joints coming apart ! I'm no expert but I thought that all epoxy was waterproof h34r: .
I haven't built a Whiplash (yet!) but I've built plenty of other wood boats and I've noticed that if the joints don't have enough surface area to epoxy to each other, then the joint can and will come apart. I've noticed this can be a problem with the thin 1/16" plywood skin that we like to use.
As far as hobby shop epoxy goes......I use it and maybe this is one of the problems? Lately, I've used the Tower Hobbies brand and Great Planes. Two of the things that I like about hobby shop adhesive epoxy is that it is thick and it is a simple 1:1 mix. Even at 1:1, it is easy to get carried away and get the ratio wrong and end up with problems. If I'm not mistaken, West Systems takes a 5:1 mix. You'd better have the pumps or a small digial scale to get that ratio right or you'll have plenty of problems!
I've asked about the shelf life of epoxy and was told that it has a "long" shelf life. I don't know how long "long" is though. I know that epoxy can cystalize and all that is needed to be done is to warm it and it will reliquify. I've done it.
Anyway, like I said, I'm no expert. I've got 3 wood hulls that should be in the water soon. I'll see how my glue joints hold up. I'm a little worried in that I know that I've got some joints that don't have much surface area where the two pieces of thin plywood join. I'm sure if they let go, it won't be because the epoxy is bad; it'll be because there wasn't enough for the epoxy to grab onto.
! I'm no expert but I thought that all epoxy was waterproof h34r: .I haven't built a Whiplash (yet!) but I've built plenty of other wood boats and I've noticed that if the joints don't have enough surface area to epoxy to each other, then the joint can and will come apart. I've noticed this can be a problem with the thin 1/16" plywood skin that we like to use.
As far as hobby shop epoxy goes......I use it and maybe this is one of the problems? Lately, I've used the Tower Hobbies brand and Great Planes. Two of the things that I like about hobby shop adhesive epoxy is that it is thick and it is a simple 1:1 mix. Even at 1:1, it is easy to get carried away and get the ratio wrong and end up with problems. If I'm not mistaken, West Systems takes a 5:1 mix. You'd better have the pumps or a small digial scale to get that ratio right
or you'll have plenty of problems!I've asked about the shelf life of epoxy and was told that it has a "long" shelf life. I don't know how long "long" is though. I know that epoxy can cystalize and all that is needed to be done is to warm it and it will reliquify. I've done it.
Anyway, like I said, I'm no expert. I've got 3 wood hulls that should be in the water soon. I'll see how my glue joints hold up. I'm a little worried in that I know that I've got some joints that don't have much surface area where the two pieces of thin plywood join. I'm sure if they let go, it won't be because the epoxy is bad; it'll be because there wasn't enough for the epoxy to grab onto.
Krusty 181
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Sorry to hear about the trouble , id be gutted ...
I know its of no help now but maybe in the future this may help
I have had no trouble with epoxy ,touch wood, but i only buy decent stuff here in OZ , from ACME products (yes like the coyote uses..)
when my whiplash went for a little cross country excursion due to a faulty receiver, the epoxy held that well that the wood ply was delaminated - not the epoxy on either side of it
I also went and saw my local doctor (who i know well - we have 4 kids) with a wood boat to show her so she would know what i was up to , she now orders in for me boxes of syringes - 20 ml and 60 ml , i reckon its the only way to mix epoxy acurately , they are pretty cheap $30 for 120 syringes and the 60 ml ones have a big hole that you can get the thick structural epoxy through
a lot less waste and a lot less mess too
Andrew
I know its of no help now but maybe in the future this may help
I have had no trouble with epoxy ,touch wood, but i only buy decent stuff here in OZ , from ACME products (yes like the coyote uses..)
when my whiplash went for a little cross country excursion due to a faulty receiver, the epoxy held that well that the wood ply was delaminated - not the epoxy on either side of it
I also went and saw my local doctor (who i know well - we have 4 kids) with a wood boat to show her so she would know what i was up to , she now orders in for me boxes of syringes - 20 ml and 60 ml , i reckon its the only way to mix epoxy acurately , they are pretty cheap $30 for 120 syringes and the 60 ml ones have a big hole that you can get the thick structural epoxy through
a lot less waste and a lot less mess too
Andrew
BACKEMF
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- Feb 16, 2005
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I hope you get it fixed some time, thats a drag. Now I think I am going to buy some good epoxy today to do my Whiplash.
May I ask some build questions please?
In the beginning you framed it up, did you use a flat board or a Jig?
When framing did you just tack with CA?
When did you start to use Epoxy?
To get everything straight and aligned right did you do that during the firat epoxy stage or when tacking with CA?
The kit I have seems different. I bought it from Paul Pachmeyer and the wood is very light (of course mine will be fast electric not nitro, sorry)
Some of the main stringers are warped too so I had to steam them and they are in a wood press drying right now. When I say warped I don't mean the hulls natural curve.
Any tips on getting it framed up straight and initial epoxy application would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for all your great pictures!
Ray Schrauwen
IMPBA 17284 S
District 1
May I ask some build questions please?
In the beginning you framed it up, did you use a flat board or a Jig?
When framing did you just tack with CA?
When did you start to use Epoxy?
To get everything straight and aligned right did you do that during the firat epoxy stage or when tacking with CA?
The kit I have seems different. I bought it from Paul Pachmeyer and the wood is very light (of course mine will be fast electric not nitro, sorry)
Some of the main stringers are warped too so I had to steam them and they are in a wood press drying right now. When I say warped I don't mean the hulls natural curve.
Any tips on getting it framed up straight and initial epoxy application would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for all your great pictures!
Ray Schrauwen
IMPBA 17284 S
District 1
RodneyPierce
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May I ask some build questions please?
In the beginning you framed it up, did you use a flat board or a Jig?
Used the kitchen table, because it happened to be perfectly flat. Didnt use a jig at all
When framing did you just tack with CA?
Yes, Used CA to tack everything in place sqaure.
When did you start to use Epoxy?
When i got to putting the bottom sheeting on. Spread epoxy on the bottom sheeting, and set it. Then epoxy the inner stringers and braces, etc after the bottom is dry.
To get everything straight and aligned right did you do that during the firat epoxy stage or when tacking with CA?
When tacking with CA. Very important1
The kit I have seems different. I bought it from Paul Pachmeyer and the wood is very light (of course mine will be fast electric not nitro, sorry)
Some of the main stringers are warped too so I had to steam them and they are in a wood press drying right now. When I say warped I don't mean the hulls natural curve.
Any tips on getting it framed up straight and initial epoxy application would be greatly appreciated.
Well basically i measured from back corner to opposite front corner, and vice versa on the other side, moved the frame untill i got these 2 measurements the same, then tacked together. Also, make sure the back of the boat is PERFECTLY flat on the table. measure the ront nose on each side to the table, make sure they are the same. This should get you on the right path. Hope it helps
In the beginning you framed it up, did you use a flat board or a Jig?
Used the kitchen table, because it happened to be perfectly flat. Didnt use a jig at all
When framing did you just tack with CA?
Yes, Used CA to tack everything in place sqaure.
When did you start to use Epoxy?
When i got to putting the bottom sheeting on. Spread epoxy on the bottom sheeting, and set it. Then epoxy the inner stringers and braces, etc after the bottom is dry.
To get everything straight and aligned right did you do that during the firat epoxy stage or when tacking with CA?
When tacking with CA. Very important1
The kit I have seems different. I bought it from Paul Pachmeyer and the wood is very light (of course mine will be fast electric not nitro, sorry)
Some of the main stringers are warped too so I had to steam them and they are in a wood press drying right now. When I say warped I don't mean the hulls natural curve.
Any tips on getting it framed up straight and initial epoxy application would be greatly appreciated.
Well basically i measured from back corner to opposite front corner, and vice versa on the other side, moved the frame untill i got these 2 measurements the same, then tacked together. Also, make sure the back of the boat is PERFECTLY flat on the table. measure the ront nose on each side to the table, make sure they are the same. This should get you on the right path. Hope it helps
Joe_Knesek
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- Mar 10, 2003
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In the beginning you framed it up, did you use a flat board or a Jig?
I made a jig out of MDF & 123 blocks. I used it until the day I painted the boat.
When framing did you just tack with CA?
I never used CA only T88 Epoxy
When did you start to use Epoxy?
See above
To get everything straight and aligned right did you do that during the first epoxy stage or when tacking with CA?
I measured with calipers, laid out & mounted 123 blocks to support every piece of the frame.
The kit I have seems different. I bought it from Paul Pachmeyer and the wood is very light (of course mine will be fast electric not nitro, sorry)
Copy?
Some of the main stringers are warped too so I had to steam them and they are in a wood press drying right now. When I say warped I don't mean the hulls natural curve.
Another reason to use a jig. Building on a table will never correct this problem.
Any tips on getting it framed up straight and initial epoxy application would be greatly appreciated.
Use a jig until the boat is skinned.
I made a jig out of MDF & 123 blocks. I used it until the day I painted the boat.
When framing did you just tack with CA?
I never used CA only T88 Epoxy
When did you start to use Epoxy?
See above
To get everything straight and aligned right did you do that during the first epoxy stage or when tacking with CA?
I measured with calipers, laid out & mounted 123 blocks to support every piece of the frame.
The kit I have seems different. I bought it from Paul Pachmeyer and the wood is very light (of course mine will be fast electric not nitro, sorry)
Copy?
Some of the main stringers are warped too so I had to steam them and they are in a wood press drying right now. When I say warped I don't mean the hulls natural curve.
Another reason to use a jig. Building on a table will never correct this problem.
Any tips on getting it framed up straight and initial epoxy application would be greatly appreciated.
Use a jig until the boat is skinned.
BACKEMF
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- Feb 16, 2005
- Messages
- 154
Great answers guys, thanks alot.
Paul Pachmeyer bought the hulls from Brian but they are a special "light" electric version, same kit just lite ply.
I have the Jig from Paul, I just wish I had more than (2) 123 blocks I made in shop class.
You nitro/gas guys are really great, I'm learning alot from you guys, makes my boats faster
Paul Pachmeyer bought the hulls from Brian but they are a special "light" electric version, same kit just lite ply.
I have the Jig from Paul, I just wish I had more than (2) 123 blocks I made in shop class.
You nitro/gas guys are really great, I'm learning alot from you guys, makes my boats faster
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I have built 4 whiplash and I build it on a jig from start to finish.Even when I put the decks on.
Dave Roach
Dave Roach
Roxyflash
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I built 7 whiplashs so far all gassers.I use a jig on them.I also clamp a straight edge along the center tub to keep it straight.I do this on both sides then check it with a machinist square.I have several small to large.I just dont know why the epoxy failed.Did you also put a bead on the formers and stringers?I useally cote the skin then put a bead on all glue joints.I have also used Probond to build a few boats.
Joe_Knesek
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Joe_Knesek
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Overclamping can force the epoxy out of the joint which will weaken it. I made a giant sandbag out of foodsaver bagging material that I laid over the skin to hold it in place until the epoxy dried.
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If you have a kit cut from a CNC router, use the jig.
If you have a kit cut from a CNC Laser, then a flat table works great.
The sport20 just won the Northern Nats (David Roach), and the Indy Masters (Chris Wood)
Congrats guys!
Brian
If you have a kit cut from a CNC Laser, then a flat table works great.
The sport20 just won the Northern Nats (David Roach), and the Indy Masters (Chris Wood)
Congrats guys!
Brian
Chris Wood
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Brian,
did you ever get anywhere with the ( plastic ??? ) cowls.. i know you was working on something
chris
TERMINATOR
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hey brian , just wondering how my whiplash is coming along.. just got my new cmb valvola and all other goodies to go with it.. not pressing as i know it will take me all winter to get it done..lol . i would like to add some mas epoxy to my order as well, this thread kinda went to hell for rodney, that is a real bummer to work that hard then have it screw up out of your control. woody remember when we would screw up stuff out of pure pleasure?? "slot cars"..
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