Where to buy fuel in bulk quantities

[AndyBrown]

ask Chrysler,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Something tells me the answer is connected to Uncle Sam.

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Carl,

Could you try a 10% Acetone mix vs FAI 4:1?

Also a note on propylene oxide - prope percentage should be mixed right before you use it. Otherwise it evaporates out of the fuel in no time (sealed container or not) and you won't be running the % you thought you had.. I'm with Andy though - it's nasty stuff and it is used primarily for it's reaction with nitromethane - which you don't have of course!

Terry,

In my 21 rigger on 50% nitro I'd have to launch at 1min 20. Same boat and set up for 60% I'd have to launch at 45 seconds :mellow: or I'd run out of fuel during a race. Less nitro + same fuel tank = longer run times.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Carl,Could you try a 10% Acetone mix vs FAI 4:1?

Also a note on propylene oxide - prope percentage should be mixed right before you use it. Otherwise it evaporates out of the fuel in no time (sealed container or not) and you won't be running the % you thought you had.. I'm with Andy though - it's nasty stuff and it is used primarily for it's reaction with nitromethane - which you don't have of course!

Terry,

In my 21 rigger on 50% nitro I'd have to launch at 1min 20. Same boat and set up for 60% I'd have to launch at 45 seconds :mellow: or I'd run out of fuel during a race. Less nitro + same fuel tank = longer run times.

explains why my buddy marty slater can race all year on a tank of 15 percent..lol

terry

 

[El Zorro]

Great job, Carl! I'm sure everyone here can appreciate your efforts in showing us that this type of fuel actually will work. A small percentage of nitromethane ( 5% 0r 10% ) would help you with starting the engine, as you already know.On the other hand, trying to run a race with all contestants utilizing the same fuel from a central source ( lets say 10% nitro fuel ) WILL NOT WORK in model boat racing, and I'll tell you why. 1) People won't want to pay the extra money involved in entry fees, 2) Sombody, somewhere will try to add something to their fuel to enhance their performance, 3) In order to prevent number 2 from happening each boat after EVERY heat would have to have it's fuel checked with Digitron meter ( as we do with the big race boats in the Stock classes ), 4) by doing the first three items mentioned already it will take up SO MUCH TIME that at a lot of the bigger races that are already squeezed for time in getting 4 rounds of racing in, you would be LUCKY to get in two rounds, much less three, and 5) It would require more manpower from the host club to oversee the whole fueling/fuel checking operation at each race. If you want to try this at one of your races and you have plenty of extra time to do all of this, knock yourself out..............been there and done that in Controline Speed and Scale Racing.

Dick Tyndall

h34r: Where did you get digitron meter? can tell ?

Go to "www.digitrondirect.com" and look under "fuel testers". They are expensive at $445.00. These testers check for the presence of oxidizers in the fuel.

Dick

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

Great job, Carl! I'm sure everyone here can appreciate your efforts in showing us that this type of fuel actually will work. A small percentage of nitromethane ( 5% 0r 10% ) would help you with starting the engine, as you already know.On the other hand, trying to run a race with all contestants utilizing the same fuel from a central source ( lets say 10% nitro fuel ) WILL NOT WORK in model boat racing, and I'll tell you why. 1) People won't want to pay the extra money involved in entry fees, 2) Sombody, somewhere will try to add something to their fuel to enhance their performance, 3) In order to prevent number 2 from happening each boat after EVERY heat would have to have it's fuel checked with Digitron meter ( as we do with the big race boats in the Stock classes ), 4) by doing the first three items mentioned already it will take up SO MUCH TIME that at a lot of the bigger races that are already squeezed for time in getting 4 rounds of racing in, you would be LUCKY to get in two rounds, much less three, and 5) It would require more manpower from the host club to oversee the whole fueling/fuel checking operation at each race. If you want to try this at one of your races and you have plenty of extra time to do all of this, knock yourself out..............been there and done that in Controline Speed and Scale Racing.

Dick Tyndall

h34r: Where did you get digitron meter? can tell ?

Go to "www.digitrondirect.com" and look under "fuel testers". They are expensive at $445.00. These testers check for the presence of oxidizers in the fuel.

Dick

Hi Dick I tried on website but it is not work so you can show picture thanks,

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Try this Allan.

link

 

[El Zorro]

Great job, Carl! I'm sure everyone here can appreciate your efforts in showing us that this type of fuel actually will work. A small percentage of nitromethane ( 5% 0r 10% ) would help you with starting the engine, as you already know.On the other hand, trying to run a race with all contestants utilizing the same fuel from a central source ( lets say 10% nitro fuel ) WILL NOT WORK in model boat racing, and I'll tell you why. 1) People won't want to pay the extra money involved in entry fees, 2) Sombody, somewhere will try to add something to their fuel to enhance their performance, 3) In order to prevent number 2 from happening each boat after EVERY heat would have to have it's fuel checked with Digitron meter ( as we do with the big race boats in the Stock classes ), 4) by doing the first three items mentioned already it will take up SO MUCH TIME that at a lot of the bigger races that are already squeezed for time in getting 4 rounds of racing in, you would be LUCKY to get in two rounds, much less three, and 5) It would require more manpower from the host club to oversee the whole fueling/fuel checking operation at each race. If you want to try this at one of your races and you have plenty of extra time to do all of this, knock yourself out..............been there and done that in Controline Speed and Scale Racing.

Dick Tyndall

h34r: Where did you get digitron meter? can tell ?

Go to "www.digitrondirect.com" and look under "fuel testers". They are expensive at $445.00. These testers check for the presence of oxidizers in the fuel.

Dick

Hi Dick I tried on website but it is not work so you can show picture thanks,

Sorry Alan, I guess it would be easier to find if I could spell the name correctly! Try "www.DigatronDirect.com".

Dick

 

[Marty Slater]

Terry 15% an 1 glow plug all year long

needle is a little easy to find

just call me BISQUET i am there to clean up

an let most every body beat them shelves

you must first finish the race be for you finish first

an the most important thing

is to have FUN :lol: :lol:

an hang out in the parking lot at dark

these things are only TOY BOATS

Marty

 

[carlnoki]

Tim;

i know about the properties of Prope

i used to run it in my pulse jets for control line sped and i also used to use in while in europe back in teh 80's to offset the low nitro percentages that were only available back then.

prope does have a very low flash point and with the other chemicals in the mix that flash point is raised to a higher flach point and is much more stable as far as evaporating off is concerned.

as far as Acetone is concerned NO FLIPPING WAY. i have tried alot of other igniting chemicals in the past and that is one of them that does not like to remain at a constant burn rate when mixed with any other chemical. i.e. you will always be chasing the needle all ove rthe place when yo utry to use that stuff.

believe me, i have tried ALOT of chemicals over the years to see how they d oin our motors and i know which ones work well and which one do not work that well.

anyways, it is getting late and i got to get up early in the morning for a meeting on the up coming Obama inauguration

transportation requirents. night now folks.

carl

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Carl,

Fair enough. If you are confident that it is a no go, thats good enough to satisfy my curiousity.

The reason I asked was that I thought I'd read someone here on IW had some success with acetone as a nitro substitute, and I'd also read about it's use with methanol on the "Ray Hall turbocharging" website @ a maximum of 10%.

 

[piper_chuck]

Hey bill.
it is possible to runs SPEC FUEL.. but the clubs would have to hydrometer it to see what it is.. and i doubt that most would be willing to spend the time and money to do it.

Or the club provides the fuel for racing. The cost of spec fuel could be included as part of the entry fees. If the club publishes the brand and formula of fuel they're using people can buy their own for testing and tuning ahead of time. The club could even sell fuel at the race. Providing spec fuel would require a bit of work to setup and staff authorized fueling stations, but if there's a will, there's a way...

So that would mean ALL fuel would have to purchased from ONE manufacturer as even at same % levels for nitro and oil all fuels are NOT the same. It's hard enough to get clubs to hold properly organized and run races without adding this on top of it all. With the amount of fuel you'd be talking about for each race how would you know if each club properly stored and handled the fuel? What would happen if the one supplier chosen decided that they weren't going to supply fuel mid way thru a season? What if a club didn't have the cash up front to buy the fuel? Also not to mention you deny racers to ability to get together and do group buys, mix their own etc. etc., screw all that. These are not cars, we don't complete a heat on 5 or 6 oz. of fuel. <_<

Geeez, it's amazing what cabin fever does each season.................

Like I said, where there's a will, there's a way. It's a shame that nearly every time there's an idea that could reduce the cost of racing it's met with negativity and all the reasons why it wouldn't work rather than a bit of open mindedness to explore whether it's feasible. It's also too bad that human nature is such that we can't do something because a few people might cheat and the cost in money or time to catch them is too high. I guess R/C boat racing is, and always will be, partly a race to see who can spend more. Don't bother to reply, I've had enough. C ya, I'm outta here...

 

[Don Ferrette]

Hey bill.
it is possible to runs SPEC FUEL.. but the clubs would have to hydrometer it to see what it is.. and i doubt that most would be willing to spend the time and money to do it.

Or the club provides the fuel for racing. The cost of spec fuel could be included as part of the entry fees. If the club publishes the brand and formula of fuel they're using people can buy their own for testing and tuning ahead of time. The club could even sell fuel at the race. Providing spec fuel would require a bit of work to setup and staff authorized fueling stations, but if there's a will, there's a way...

So that would mean ALL fuel would have to purchased from ONE manufacturer as even at same % levels for nitro and oil all fuels are NOT the same. It's hard enough to get clubs to hold properly organized and run races without adding this on top of it all. With the amount of fuel you'd be talking about for each race how would you know if each club properly stored and handled the fuel? What would happen if the one supplier chosen decided that they weren't going to supply fuel mid way thru a season? What if a club didn't have the cash up front to buy the fuel? Also not to mention you deny racers to ability to get together and do group buys, mix their own etc. etc., screw all that. These are not cars, we don't complete a heat on 5 or 6 oz. of fuel. <_<

Geeez, it's amazing what cabin fever does each season.................

Like I said, where there's a will, there's a way. It's a shame that nearly every time there's an idea that could reduce the cost of racing it's met with negativity and all the reasons why it wouldn't work rather than a bit of open mindedness to explore whether it's feasible. It's also too bad that human nature is such that we can't do something because a few people might cheat and the cost in money or time to catch them is too high. I guess R/C boat racing is, and always will be, partly a race to see who can spend more. Don't bother to reply, I've had enough. C ya, I'm outta here...

There is a big difference between feasible and reality in this case. To host a race, taken in all the entries, ordered the trophies, solicited raffle prizes, run the race program and settled all the entry issues then sit in a CD chair for a weekend there is little room for anything else and for some that in itself is too much. It's hard enough to get clubs to even hold a decent race especially when it's usually the same 3 of 4 (and often less) who do all the work leading up to and then hosting it. An additional burden like this would probably cause many clubs to throw in the towel on hosting races, let's not make things any harder than they need to be. Like I said before, these are not cars, you can't hand a guy a quart or two of fuel & say have fun racing this weekend.

 

[carlnoki]

Don;

very well put if i do say so myself.

i am replying to this as we are in the meeting right now and the current speaker is putting alot of us to sleep.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz

carl

 

[Mike Hallam]

I can relate to Don's comment. There are far too many people who just want to test and race and do nothing to prepare for a race or contribute during a race, never mind making it a success.

 

[Topfuel666]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and their perspectives on this. I honestly do not think there will be a shortage of fuel at least this year. I do believe though that the buy price will be considerably higher than a year ago and may cause folks some grief. The solution is not to bail out if really enjoy running your boats. I also run Gas and it is an option but there is a cash outlay involved that outweighs the cost of running our engines.
Maybe I am being naive, but it was mentioned in this thread of running straight methanol only. I know this opens a can of worms as to how do we enforce it since once fuel is mixed with oil, it is difficult to test. I guess my question is: is this even feasible to consider as an alternative? If this subject would be better addressed as another thread, I will do so. I would really hate to see boats get 'benched' due to the lack of fuel or the price being too high.

Bill

When I asked the question about the feasibility of running methanol only, I didn't think we would get off the beaten path and try and make it mandatory. Carl answered my question and it is feasible for the individual to do so with decent performance.

I do have to agree with Don about running a race and not just being a racer. There is a lot of work before, during and after each race that generally goes unnoticed and is done by a handful of people. Just my .02 on that one.

Bill

 

[Don Ferrette]

I can relate to Don's comment. There are far too many people who just want to test and race and do nothing to prepare for a race or contribute during a race, never mind making it a success.

You would definitely be one to understand Mike as I hear you put on one heck of a race doing the Northern Nats. One of these days I need to make up there for that race. B)

 

[piper_chuck]

I can relate to Don's comment. There are far too many people who just want to test and race and do nothing to prepare for a race or contribute during a race, never mind making it a success.

Yup, that's all I've been doing, sitting on the sidelines doing nothing for the hobby, my club, or the district. :angry: As I said, I'm outta here. How far is still up in the air.

 

[Don Ferrette]

I can relate to Don's comment. There are far too many people who just want to test and race and do nothing to prepare for a race or contribute during a race, never mind making it a success.

Yup, that's all I've been doing, sitting on the sidelines doing nothing for the hobby, my club, or the district. :angry: As I said, I'm outta here. How far is still up in the air.

Chuck you need to lighten up. So what if the idea went up in flames, it's no big deal. You yourself have held the match to other less than perfect ideas posted in the past so let it go. This is just one of those things that would be too difficult to pull off, it's just that simple. Focus the energy somewhere else, like what exactly what can be done about getting fuel. Hmmm, I'd bet if there were enough inquiries to say one or two specific suppliers they'd see the $$ signs in the potential quantity sales. I still think all this "panic" over fuel is a bit premature anyways........

 

[chris1088]

I agree if we show them how many people want fuel and maybe they would see the $$signs . Here at district 20 we are a small group and we all help to put on a race because if we dont help we dont get to race and we love to race!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Wally Marsh]

Terry 15% an 1 glow plug all year long needle is a little easy to find

just call me BISQUET i am there to clean up

an let most every body beat them shelves

you must first finish the race be for you finish first

an the most important thing

is to have FUN :lol: :lol:

an hang out in the parking lot at dark

these things are only TOY BOATS

Marty

And one more thing, Marty, you gotta pick better pit helpers than you did at Mendota. That no good "Wallster" sorta messed you up one heat, can't seem to keep the boats straight!!!

 

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