stock outboard engine rules

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I wont copy and paste what James said and pick it apart - but the bottom line is the rules are the rules- period.

I will point out however - "that in his personal opinion , it could have been handled better",

that alone is the only reason I got involved in the first place. It seemed pretty petty to me and the point it escalated too and the people involved spurred my responses-Seems it could have been handled a thousand different ways - yet someone insists on it being here.....

Rest assured if your planning a trip to S.Fla in Oct.to race tunnels - we will NOT have this nonsense or you can stay home. :huh:

Like it or not/ we are gonna have fun- play outside the box and make one hell of a good time- B)

Wanna crap on that- dont come.......................
No problem Andy. If you have a problem following the rules your race is covered by, probably NAMBA, I'm just glad you let everyone know now. I for one will not be driving 10 hours for a run-what-you-brung renegade race. I can do that in our pond down the street. I have already been studying the NAMBA rules to see what I was allowed to do, or not do, but I won't waste anymore of my time.

Then again, this may be YOU talking, as I don't see Premo running a race that way. Maybe he will chime in. If so, I will simply stick to the Charleston race for the last race of the year, as John has made it very clear, the CMB races will be run by the rule book as it should be. Have a great race.... ;)
 
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The Sport rules were also developed because the stock rules were overley enforced by some technical inspectors at a major event and it was done on a personal vendeta. A guy was called out due to having used locktite on the engine screws, so that is why they DQed his boat K&B's do not come with locktite it was no longer stock. Plus the fact that if you were going to run in the class, you had to call and find out what the host club's definition of Stock actually was. Some ran "BOX stock rules" other allowed "shaping the Skeg" others just ran a "run what you brung type class". The DQing because of locktie was the incident that made everyone realize Stock Classes just do not really work well. Cheaters will always be out there there is no way around that fact. If you suspect some one is cheating you need to read the rules and put up a protest fee and file it with the host club.
 
looks like i'll need to get some more k&b sx water jackets ;) .............i look at imbpa sport 20 tunnel as being very similar to F.A.S.T. drag racing, stands for factory appearing stock. as long as it looks stock outside, you can do what you want inside. but it's also like a claimer class at the local dirt track, how much cam can you run with a 2 barrel carb & stock cast iron ex. manifolds...........i like the imbpa rules as they are, just enforce them the same at all race sites!
 
Both Bill and Bob are dead on. Its also important to note that IMPBA sport tunnel is not a beginners class. Its a bragging wrights class. Nothing more nothing less.

Mikey said it best.. It aint broke. Its my opinion any changes would damage the class.

BTY.. IMPBA Sport tunnel use to be a claimer class. When I was OBD i had a wrote out. Claiming in toy boats just added a TON of animosity.

Grim
 
Grim, I do agree with you there. I wouldnt say its a beginner class either. I think the IMPBA Sport Tunnel class is probably one of the hardest most head to head tunnel classes there is.
 
.............. If you suspect some one is cheating you need to read the rules and put up a protest fee and file it with the host club.
And then be prepared for the verbal and public forum abuse from the perp and all of his buddies after the engine is deemed as illegal........ :eek:
 
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seems there is a bit of disparity here...on one hand u have the guy that wrote the rules say his intentions were to not be so strict as to limit changing colors of heads etc and then u got some peoples own interpertation of the gray rule......sounds like u guys need to get it stright one way or another.....rewirte the rules with all the little changes u want in there......that way this thread will die quietly.... :)
 
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I will take the high road here. The fastest boat doesn't always win the race, and I have proved that time and time again.

Quote the late Dale Earnhardt,,,,,,

"IN ORDER TO FINISH FIRST, FIRST YOU MUST FINISH."

I told Jr. before the WTC 2 lap boats dont win 6 lap heats. Looking for ballistic puts the water in control, not the driver, and unless your a Idiot Savant like me, it will bite you in the ars.He settled down, found his rhythm, and took home wood.

Take a 5 mph slower boat, learn how to tattoo lane 1, and proceed to wear them out. Eric Betty had a rocket LYNX OS, held the record, and couldnt finish a heat most times.How many times last boat running, smart, took it home.

Russ Williamson showed patience in the sloppiest WTC to date.And Grim was there, he will attest to the water was not raceable, I blew over at 1/3 throttle in the wind..And Russ was 2008 Sport B champ.He had a great pitman, that kept his head screwed on straight too. ;)

So don't let your emotions take charge of your brains Ron,you've been around long enough to know if it aint fun, it aint fun.This whole thread is ridiculous, and all it does is hurt the bottom line, fun. There have been more protests and backstabbing since your return than I have seen in 24 years of racing.Its getting old, so if this is how you intend to carry yourself, thanks for not coming. We plan on having fun, not a protest festival.I do not know what happened at Grand Prix. .Thats where thinking out of the box created some neat things, Like the EVO outboard.

edit.... wrong kevin..ooops.....
 
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seems there is a bit of disparity here...on one hand u have the guy that wrote the rules say his intentions were to not be so strict as to limit changing colors of heads etc and then u got some peoples own interpertation of the gray rule......sounds like u guys need to get it stright one way or another.....rewirte the rules with all the little changes u want in there......that way this thread will die quietly.... :)

Ron,

I too believe the rules as written work, as long as anyone spotting possible infractions are "manning up" and protesting what they see. The rules were designed to prohibit switching the cooling cap and head with high performance parts. The easiest way to see this is with a visual inspection that doesnt require disassembly. The rules worked here and were enforced. What everyone is forgetting is the fact that the head button may not have been an OS and it really doesn't matter as the rules worked as they were intended. Only way around this rule would be for someone to blue anodize another manuf head and bolt on the engine. Someone going to this extent to cheat should be dealt with accordingly and to the full extent the rule book will allow.

This may seem like senseless bickering Ron but is very common in all aspects of racing. Be thankful there are still people out there that will stand up for what they believe and endure this harassment as their passion for our hobby keeps those that push the limits of the rules in check, and levels the playing field for everyone!!!!!..... ;)
 
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I will take the high road here. The fastest boat doesn't always win the race, and I have proved that time and time again.

Quote the late Dale Earnhardt,,,,,,

"IN ORDER TO FINISH FIRST, FIRST YOU MUST FINISH."

I told Jr. before the WTC 2 lap boats dont win 6 lap heats. Looking for ballistic puts the water in control, not the driver, and unless your a Idiot Savant like me, it will bite you in the ars.He settled down, found his rhythm, and took home wood.

Take a 5 mph slower boat, learn how to tattoo lane 1, and proceed to wear them out. Eric Betty had a rocket LYNX OS, held the record, and couldnt finish a heat most times.How many times last boat running, smart, took it home.

Russ Williamson showed patience in the sloppiest WTC to date.And Grim was there, he will attest to the water was not raceable, I blew over at 1/3 throttle in the wind..And Russ was 2008 Sport B champ.He had a great pitman, that kept his head screwed on straight too. ;)

So don't let your emotions take charge of your brains Ron,you've been around long enough to know if it aint fun, it aint fun.This whole thread is ridiculous, and all it does is hurt the bottom line, fun. There have been more protests and backstabbing since your return than I have seen in 24 years of racing.Its getting old, so if this is how you intend to carry yourself, thanks for not coming. We plan on having fun, not a protest festival.I do not know what happened at Grand Prix, but Kevin protesting a head button, when he was running a OS can on a KB motor less than 2 years ago at SOWEGA seems like he was provoked into a issue.And I dont remember any of us protesting him, and we all had fun, because you still have to finish.Thats where thinking out of the box created some neat things, Like the EVO outboard.
Randy,

Sorry to hear you feel that way. It aint fun to me when others dont adhere to the rules. I guess you are blaming me for this thread that Andy started, wrong parts on the B Stock that was DQ'd, and the protest that was launched by someone else.

Not like it used to be years ago, but it can still be brought back under control. It's probably the reason so many are now standing up to correct what others have let pass by. I can only wonder how your gang would have responded if I had been caught with my pants down!!! Have fun at your race..... ;)

BTW, Kevin has been racing less than a year as he just started tunnel racing for his first time ever the last half of the year, and has no idea where SOWEGA is even located..... :eek:

Maybe you should have taken a little higher road Randy. Before you call out people publically, maybe you should check out the storyline feeds from your buddies and get your stories straight....... ;)

Looks like you now owe Kevin a PUBLIC apology...... :D
 
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At least two people have commented that the intent of the rules in this class is to keep people from doing things to engines that gave them an unfair advantage. That seems like a fairly simple concept. I'm not an IMPBA member so I can't propose a rule change. Here is a simple rule change that may solve your problem and sure would have in this case because there seems to be some evidence that removing the finish on the head keps the engine cooler and cool engines run slower than hot ones

Add rule to read...Protests must include an explaination of how the modification gave the competitor an unfair advantage.

Finding a technicality to protest on is not that difficult. Explaining how the intent or spirit of the rule has been broken is not so easy. Look at how many have tried in this thread.

Please note this is ONLY for "stock" classes
 
For those who want to stand on the rule book and say the rules were broken your right. I hope you thank the next Barney Fife who gives you a ticket for doing 72 in a posted 70 on the freeway. Wait you don't drive over 70, flex or consider the punishment fit the crime.

What I see is "sport" was created because "stock" was getting way too chicken$hit. So now we want to ruin a class by going back to "locktite" rules. There was spirit and intent in the rewrite to sport rules and that only goes so far till it turns back to chickcrap again. NAMBA has stock and correct me if I am wrong not growing on the west coast near the numbers east of the Mississippi in IMPBA. "B"- NAMBA or 40 stock is a dinosoar as equipment isn't availiable. 20 tunnel stock and sport classes live on partly because of a quality OS motor that runs and finishes making it attractive to new boaters. We have had many threads on here where some have been willing to compromise insurance cost to attract new people. So when we get people in on their own and they drag their families with them we show our best side and make sure they learn and drum them back out. Jimmy has been around asking questions and racing mostly FE to start. With not a lot of time he has proven to be a tough competitor. Do you think he purposely or willfully cheated? Stand up if you feel he did, put your name on it. Yes he had an illegal head button cover that I do not think even he realized. His bad for not being a seasoned rule book reader and interpretor in a class that has totally modified internals. So throw him out when he is doing well rather than just make him aware of his violation and let him correct it or stand down. It isn't what you do but sometimes how you do it. So someone who is basically new to this, less than a year, knew on his own with no provocation to file a protest after more than one heat had been run. Wasn't this a 2 day event? At the end of the day did tossing a racer do anything positive other than this discussion. Looks to me like more hard feelings and friendships turned to aquaintanships than anything.

I am leaning more to just running open and unrestricted classes from here forward. The Charleston can muffler only rule in 40 is looking like the best alternative.

Mic
 
Man oh man, does it ever end? lol. Personally I like all parties involved in this. They're all a great group of racers who are as competitive as any I've seen.

The thing is though, you can rake this situation back and forth across the coals, and argue for weeks on what makes a legal "sport B" tunnel. Like I think Andy mentioned, if you really want to get technical, you can call a boat illegal if it has a head shim removed because on the outside there will be several thousands difference between the head and the case. If that's the case, then every boat in Atlanta should have been DQ'ed. I mean how specific do you really want to go?

While yes, rules are put in place and should be followed, there's one unwritten rule in the rule book and that's called SPORTSMANSHIP. We tend to forget how much time and effort and money we all put into these boats. Not to mention the entry fees and all the hours spent driving to a race and the hundreds of dollars in gas.

With this in mind, protesting someone is NOT something that should be taken lightly, nor should it even be a forefront option. If you have a problem with someone's boat and think that it doesn't adhere to the rules, then talk to them about it. In this instance, if somebody didn't like the fact that Jimmy's cap was polished instead of blue and therefore he had a competitive advantage, then ask him to change it because you don't think it falls in line with the rules.

We're all a big family here, especially in district 3 and district 13. I guarantee you that if somebody had just asked or said something to Jimmy saying, "Hey man, I don't think that water jacket is legal. Can you change it to make sure we're all even?" I guarantee you he would have and the race would have went on without a hiccup or any of these threads.

Sure, if he's a peckerhead and cusses you out about it, by all means protest the mess out of him. But talk to him FIRST. What if it's a new guy to the hobby and he shows up with a similar setup and doesn't know any better. Are you gonna protest him without saying anything and instantly turn him off to this hobby altogether? NO. Then why would you do it to one of your fellow racers?

Not trying to speak for Jimmy, but I think it was Gene Duncan who told me they bought that engine from somebody like that. They didn't polish the cap themselves, somebody sold it to them like that and they didn't think it was a big deal so there was no use in spending $25 for a new one, and have raced it like that for a while now without any complaints until now. Had they of thought it was an issue, they would have changed it a long time ago but nobody said anything to them about it.

But instead of talking to Jimmy about it now that it's an issue, he was protested, DQ'ed, lost out on the $20 for the entry fee, prolly another $10 in fuel and plugs, and lost district points and overall had what was supposed to be a fun weekend, turned into this mess. Is that really what this hobby is about?

And to clarify, it was NOT the whole head that was polished. The O.S. has a 2-piece head. The headbutton, and the outer cooling cap that sits on top of it. It was ONLY the outer cooling cap that was polished. The actual button was still anodized blue from the factory so there was no way there could have been an aftermarket special head button in place as was suggested.

I know Kevin is a good guy from meeting him this past weekend. Racing against him, we had an incident on the race course and he immediately came up to me after the race and apologized for what happened. I can respect that a lot and it shows a lot about a person's character. I don't think he wanted any of this controversy to happen and being a relatively new racer, I don't think he had any idea what kind of firefight it would start. In reality, I don't even think he knew a whole lot, if anything about protesting. It might also be worth mentioning that there was an "altercation" earlier in the day before the protest was filed between the Duncan's and a few of the people near/in Kevin's tent. Whether or not that was the spark that helped to light the match, I guess we'll never be able to say....but that's another conversation altogether....

Not bashing anybody for this incident, just something to think about for the future. The bottom line is, respect your fellow racers. You don't always have to call the cops because your neighbor is playing their music too loud, sometimes you can just ask them to turn it down.

Now back to the shop to put a muffler extension on my water cooled O.S...... What? It's legal in NAMBA?? :lol: :p

-Mitch Jr.
 
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I will take the high road here. The fastest boat doesn't always win the race, and I have proved that time and time again.

Quote the late Dale Earnhardt,,,,,,

"IN ORDER TO FINISH FIRST, FIRST YOU MUST FINISH."

I told Jr. before the WTC 2 lap boats dont win 6 lap heats. Looking for ballistic puts the water in control, not the driver, and unless your a Idiot Savant like me, it will bite you in the ars.He settled down, found his rhythm, and took home wood.

Take a 5 mph slower boat, learn how to tattoo lane 1, and proceed to wear them out. Eric Betty had a rocket LYNX OS, held the record, and couldnt finish a heat most times.How many times last boat running, smart, took it home.

Russ Williamson showed patience in the sloppiest WTC to date.And Grim was there, he will attest to the water was not raceable, I blew over at 1/3 throttle in the wind..And Russ was 2008 Sport B champ.He had a great pitman, that kept his head screwed on straight too. ;)

So don't let your emotions take charge of your brains Ron,you've been around long enough to know if it aint fun, it aint fun.This whole thread is ridiculous, and all it does is hurt the bottom line, fun. There have been more protests and backstabbing since your return than I have seen in 24 years of racing.Its getting old, so if this is how you intend to carry yourself, thanks for not coming. We plan on having fun, not a protest festival.I do not know what happened at Grand Prix, but Kevin protesting a head button, when he was running a OS can on a KB motor less than 2 years ago at SOWEGA seems like he was provoked into a issue.And I dont remember any of us protesting him, and we all had fun, because you still have to finish.Thats where thinking out of the box created some neat things, Like the EVO outboard.
Randy,

Sorry to hear you feel that way. It aint fun to me when others dont adhere to the rules. I guess you are blaming me for this thread that Andy started, wrong parts on the B Stock that was DQ'd, and the protest that was launched by someone else.

Not like it used to be years ago, but it can still be brought back under control. It's probably the reason so many are now standing up to correct what others have let pass by. I can only wonder how your gang would have responded if I had been caught with my pants down!!! Have fun at your race..... ;)

BTW, Kevin has been racing less than a year as he just started tunnel racing for his first time ever the last half of the year, and has no idea where SOWEGA is even located..... :eek:

Maybe you should have taken a little higher road Randy. Before you call out people publically, maybe you should check out the storyline feeds from your buddies and get your stories straight....... ;)

Looks like you now owe Kevin a PUBLIC apology...... :D
First and foremost- it WAS you that requested another thread be started not to distract from the race thread- remember ?

Secondly once again - you jumped right out and stated -

" No problem Andy. If you have a problem following the rules your race is covered by, probably NAMBA, I'm just glad you let everyone know now. I for one will not be driving 10 hours for a run-what-you-brung renegade race. I can do that in our pond down the street. I have already been studying the NAMBA rules to see what I was allowed to do, or not do, but I won't waste anymore of my time. "

There you go again- jumping to conclusions without asking questions- gets old btw. My statement regarding " playing outside the box" referred too-

Running the Tri-Oval / LeMans starts for ModVp . PERIOD- but you would not have know that cause you didnt ask. All other NAMBA engine / hull rules will apply- Dont wanna run NAMBA rules or the Tri-Oval , dont come.

Andy
 
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I think Mitch Jr. has certainly just confirmed who the smart Atwell in the family is. Well written on all accounts my friend.

It was mentioned that the OB director should initiate a rule change. That wont happen from me, as I know and feel the rules as written for this class are about as good as they get for this type of class. The bottom line is, as I have said before, if you have a beef with how the rules are written, interpreted, policed, not policed, etc etc, they you (whoever) should campaign to have them changed to suite whatever it is you want to get out of them. Thats why you are a paying member. There are proper channels to do this, it is all spelled out in the rule book. Do that, or dont do that- doesnt matter to me. But bickering about it on an internet forum has never and will never have any effect other than this pissing contest we have all witnessed within this thread.

To the parties involved - not just Jimmy and Kevin - I hope you guys can be men about it (pretty sure there was a woman involved too) and put it all behind you. I know all of you, love racing with all of you, and would hate to have this thing that has obviously gotten blown way out of proportion have any negative effect on our abilities to have fun at the races. Its all kind of embarrassing honestly.

This thread is over. Thanks for playing.

~ James
 
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