stock outboard engine rules

[David Santistevan]

The reality is that the rules are clearly outlined as to the definition of a stock motor. Most clubs at most races understand the "spirit" of this rule is to keep "hot" motors out of the class and usually they do not care about cosmetic changes as long as they do not have anything to do with the enhancing the boats performance. But here is the rub, anyone who makes a mod that is clearly prohibited or excluded in the rules cometic or not runs the risk of being torn down and DQd' period. For that reason I have always made sure my engines completely met the definition of the rule so that I did not risk being DQd' because someone didn't like the shirt I was wearing that day.

In the end the "rule is the rule" and they are quite clear. If you choose to go in the grey area you are on your own and you risk being DQd' even if you think it's a crappy thing to do and it had nothing to do with performance.

Just my 2 cents.

D

 

[ron upton]

do u impba guys argue like this after every race? i drove 380 miles to run one class and can tell ya i wont be back after listening to all this crap.....

 

[Andy Greene]

do u impba guys argue like this after every race? i drove 380 miles to run one class and can tell ya i wont be back after listening to all this crap.....

Dont take it that way Ron, and no , I dont think this is a very common issue, and PLEASE dont let that detere you from future races.

I was not there, but with a tunnel only race upcoming that will fall squarely in mine and a few others hands, I asked some questions. I'm sorry if that offended some people by starting this thread- but it was asked for and I had questions/respones to be made without further tainting the efforts of those that put on a great race. Hence the reason it drug on- I'm pretty sure those questions have been answered and everyone knows where they stand at most any upcoming event that this class will run -

which is what needed to happen

Andy

 

[RodneyPierce]

do u impba guys argue like this after every race? i drove 380 miles to run one class and can tell ya i wont be back after listening to all this crap.....

Ron, dont let a few sour grapes ruin your impression on the entire body...

 

[HTV Boats]

I have mixed feelings on sport or regulated classes. They are good to build numbers as new people see them as having a chance to win. I have been involved in trying to make local rules to level the field but you cannot please everyone, NAMBA with a strict "Stock" class is really the better choice in my opinion to be fair, but the strict format has probably kept numbers down in some cases. IMPBA sport class katy/bar the door internally and really the external part is a visual carb and muffler ease of inspection. Getting down to polish and incorrect water fittings or washers opens the door for hard feelings and really doesn't enhance the level field. How many people have replaced the water tubing from the cav plate to the head? Did you use an OS replacement hose? This does not make sense when the internals are allowed to be modified. The real equalizer in this class is a plain can muffler that maybe is not so plain. The rules say no factory tuned pipes and don't consider the OS muffler a tuned pipe. Now the new air cooled version has a spacer to lengthen it. No tunning effect OS just added cost for nothing? One way for exhaust flow and a tappered reflective end with dual outlets. Quite a bit different than a can with holes at either end.

I do not see any significant conversations going forward to change any rules. What needs to be addressed is maybe a more friendly environment. In a case like this why not let the offender know he was in violation and ask him to correct the cosmetic violation. I am sure it would have been corrected asap and end of discussion and no difference in performance. Actually if you take the anodizing off you let heat out of a head your trying to keep heat in.

Mic

Andy,

We may need to make the fall OB event a local class modified rules. I don't know if anyone down here has a pure stock NAMBA internal OS powerhead left. We might as well stock up on protest forms too. Is changing bullets on a Aquacraft FE powerhead legal? The dams gonna burst now. I guess this is why we love outboards, never a dull moment .

 

[Grimracer]

Good banter here I say.

Mic is right, we need a better environment.

Back in 2004 (or was it 2005.. Im getting old) and as the OB Director for the IMPBA I made it a STATEMENT to NOT race at the Internats in sport tunnel and rather JUST make sure the sport tunnel class ran smoothly. I did the boat inspected as well as the GO-NO-GO gauge and the boats got stickered, The go no go gauge was used, by me, on top three after each and every sport tunnel heat. They wanted to ***** they had me to start and the CD to end it. Worked GREAT! race went a smooth as slik and the OB racers felt they had a somebodys attention.

After I got my job here at AquaCraft I got booted off the board.. for reasons unknown.. so it was back to racing the class for me.

Grim

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

Good banter here I say.

Mic is right, we need a better environment.

Back in 2004 (or was it 2005.. Im getting old) and as the OB Director for the IMPBA I made it a STATEMENT to NOT race at the Internats in sport tunnel and rather JUST make sure the sport tunnel class ran smoothly. I did the boat inspected as well as the GO-NO-GO gauge and the boats got stickered, The go no go gauge was used, by me, on top three after each and every sport tunnel heat. They wanted to ***** they had me to start and the CD to end it. Worked GREAT! race went a smooth as slik and the OB racers felt they had a somebodys attention.

After I got my job here at AquaCraft I got booted off the board.. for reasons unknown.. so it was back to racing the class for me.

Grim

It was 2005. That's the year you met Russ at Jackson, TN.

JD

 

[Don Ferrette]

Rules ..... ya love 'em and hate 'em at the same time. While it's never a nice topic when someone gets protested I'm going to tell it like it is- it's well past time for people to speak up when something clearly isn't legal and I don't care what it is. Doesn't matter if it's something that obviously enhances performance or if it's cosmetic, if the rules apply and you choose to violate the rules and get caught then accept it. Now I have little compassion for someone who chooses to break the rules but at the same time I have grown tired of those who have hissy fits over someone's boat being illegal but they don't want to be the "snitch". A case in point was at an event last year, a racer was totally bent that a gas thunderboat competing there was in clear violation of the rules in that it had no driver figure, none of the required markings and no cowl covering the motor. Was the boat illegal? Absolutely and blatantly at that. Doesn't matter that for the most part it was cosmetic (although no cowl was an advantage in terms of cooling the motor, supplying cooler air to carb, etc) as the rules are quite clear but this person wanted someone else to protest the boat. I'm guessing his reasoning in approaching me was because I'm a board member but my reply to him was if you want the boat protested it had to come from someone competing in that class. Well it seems that didn't sit well and he revisited how the boat was clearly illegal to which I agreed but gave the same answer, he walked off still miffed. Granted, some of the responsibility should fall on the clubs for enforcing the basics at the beginning especially with something so obvious but once the racing starts it should come from only a racer in the affected class. The bottom line is this- if you choose to screw with the rules regardless of attempting to exploit what you think is a grey area or blatantly choosing to ignore them don't cry if you get stepped on, it is the choice YOU made. For those who stand up and protest a boat that's illegal regardless of being cosmetic or performance oriented thanks for taking the time to KNOW and pay attention to the RULES. For the clubs who choose to also ENFORCE the rules thank you as well as I see "letting it slide" going on often in classes like Open Offshore (when was the last time you saw a heat where every boat was compliant with offshore rules for numbers, driver figures/cockpits, etc??). For those who want to whizz and moan about someone who's in violation but don't want to be the "snitch" it's simple, either put up or SHUT UP. And lastly to the "they're just toys" bunch while yes they're toys the RULES are there for a reason and if some did a better job of FOLLOWING them in the first place we wouldn't have threads like this, arguments at races, feelings getting hurt or silly talk of more friendly atmospheres handling violations.

READ THE RULE BOOK UNTIL YOU CLEARLY KNOW THE RULES

FOLLOW THE RULE BOOK SINCE YOU NOW KNOW THE RULES

BREAK THE RULES AND GET CAUGHT SIMPLY MAN UP AND ACCEPT IT

A basic three step process, doesn't matter which org. you belong to as this goes on in NAMBA as well and can be made better in both.

Fingers worn out, soapbox crushed, work to do in the shop so as you were fellas..................

 

[rumrunner]

Let's just call it outlaw 20 ! And race.

Shane

 

[topfuel443]

I was wondering how long it would take for this little gem to pop up. I was at the race, and saw/experienced the whole thing go down. Bottom line is that Jimmy's sport boat was in violation of the rules as they are written, and he was called out on it. Kevin had that right just like all of us do. Jimmy manned up and accepted the consequences. Thats the end of it as far as this particular matter is concerned in my opinion.

I know Jimmy and his family well enough to say that I dont think for one millisecond he had any malicious intent with the polished water jacket, I think he even told me he bought it like that. Doesnt matter, as it was illegal. Thats it, done.

In my capacity as Nat. OB Director, I would say the whole thing was handled as well as it could have been handled. Thats why we have the rules we have.

In my personal opinion, I think it could have all been handled in a more gentlemanly manner, i.e. Kevin could have brought it up to Jimmy when he saw the water jacket initially, then if Jimmy continued running it, the protest could have been filed.

In my capacity as the OB Forum Moderator, I will lock this thread immediately if it continues on a personal level (ie, this specific incident...) or if its gets uncivil when discussing these often controversial rules.

My advice is to learn the racing rules, and the class rules for the classes in which you are running. Then, adhere to them. This would also go for the protest rules. There is a set sequence of events that occur during a protest, as well as which persons are to be involved. It is all clearly written in the rule book. If you are going to protest someone, at least know what you are getting into, and how the procedure works.

Thanks,

~ James

 

[Tim_Duggan]

I have no dog in this fight, but figured some of you may be interested in the following as it seems strangely appropriate!

A quote from Shigeo Ogawa - Founder of OS engines."I always believed that the true purpose of contests should reside in the practical improvement of the technical skills of the participants and not in the politics of contests themselves. "

 

[topfuel443]

Smart man, nice statement, unfortunately he doesnt seem very cognizant of the male ego and motorsports.

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Smart man, nice statement, unfortunately he doesnt seem very cognizant of the male ego and motorsports.

Or maybe he was, using a statement such as that to make people think of their own behaviour in such a situation. I guess we'll never know.

 

[RodneyPierce]

Or maybe he was, using a statement such as that to make people think of their own behaviour in such a situation. I guess we'll never know.

quoted for truth!!

 

[Andy Greene]

I wont copy and paste what James said and pick it apart - but the bottom line is the rules are the rules- period.

I will point out however - "that in his personal opinion , it could have been handled better",

that alone is the only reason I got involved in the first place. It seemed pretty petty to me and the point it escalated too and the people involved spurred my responses-Seems it could have been handled a thousand different ways - yet someone insists on it being here.....

Rest assured if your planning a trip to S.Fla in Oct.to race tunnels - we will NOT have this nonsense or you can stay home. :huh:

Like it or not/ we are gonna have fun- play outside the box and make one hell of a good time- B)

Wanna crap on that- dont come.......................

 

[Bob Kensill]

I was IMPBA outboard director for ten years,that was before Grim or Gabe. The "B sport tunnel" rules were originally written by Rod Geraghty and Tommy Lee. This was done, at the request of then IMPBA president Dick Tyndal,to stop the arguements about a "stock" class. The intent of the "sport" designation was to eliminate tear down and internal inspection. The carb and exhaust openings were to be checked with a go-no go gauge. External appearance was to be checked for any modifications that would make the motor appear modified. Nothing was intended to keep a racer from "detailing" his motor just like racers do with their boats. Painting or polishing the motor will do very little to enhance performance. Most racers know very little about heat transfer or thermodynamics. As for the coating on a K&B head,it is powder coated, not anodized like the OS or Thunder tiger. The powder coating can be removed by prolonged exposure to nitromethane. I am not taking a side in this, just giving a little historical information. I was against the "sport" class because it brings out all the "cheaters", not the racers that get called on it, but the ones that never get caught. Maybe it's time for the Outboard Director to initiate some newer updated rules.

 

[Andy Greene]

I was IMPBA outboard director for ten years,that was before Grim or Gabe. The "B sport tunnel" rules were originally written by Rod Geraghty and Tommy Lee. This was done, at the request of then IMPBA president Dick Tyndal,to stop the arguements about a "stock" class. The intent of the "sport" designation was to eliminate tear down and internal inspection. The carb and exhaust openings were to be checked with a go-no go gauge. External appearance was to be checked for any modifications that would make the motor appear modified. Nothing was intended to keep a racer from "detailing" his motor just like racers do with their boats. Painting or polishing the motor will do very little to enhance performance. Most racers know very little about heat transfer or thermodynamics. As for the coating on a K&B head,it is powder coated, not anodized like the OS or Thunder tiger. The powder coating can be removed by prolonged exposure to nitromethane. I am not taking a side in this, just giving a little historical information. I was against the "sport" class because it brings out all the "cheaters", not the racers that get called on it, but the ones that never get caught. Maybe it's time for the Outboard Director to initiate some newer updated rules.

Amen............

 

[jim hagan]

I must be missing something here. The intent of the rule is to avoid having to tear engines down and inspect to see if they are legal. Seems like a simple thing to fix. Amend the rule to say if you look at the engine and it looks like it came from the factory, then it is legal. If you can't judge a book by its cover, you can't spot an illegal engine by looking at the outside!

 

[RodneyPierce]

you can honestly take this as far or as shallow as you would like. Technically every single person that has posted in this thread, has a 99% chance of being "illegal" by some of the finger pointing rules here. Where is your head shim? That means you engine from the outside clearly isnt stock... there is a .010 difference in height between bottom of head/cooling jacket and case top...

See my point? Just how far do you want to go? Honestly? ITS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!!!! So lets fuel em up, and have a blast chasing each other around!!

 

[SayMikey]

I was IMPBA outboard director for ten years,that was before Grim or Gabe. The "B sport tunnel" rules were originally written by Rod Geraghty and Tommy Lee. This was done, at the request of then IMPBA president Dick Tyndal,to stop the arguements about a "stock" class. The intent of the "sport" designation was to eliminate tear down and internal inspection. The carb and exhaust openings were to be checked with a go-no go gauge. External appearance was to be checked for any modifications that would make the motor appear modified. Nothing was intended to keep a racer from "detailing" his motor just like racers do with their boats. Painting or polishing the motor will do very little to enhance performance. Most racers know very little about heat transfer or thermodynamics. As for the coating on a K&B head,it is powder coated, not anodized like the OS or Thunder tiger. The powder coating can be removed by prolonged exposure to nitromethane. I am not taking a side in this, just giving a little historical information. I was against the "sport" class because it brings out all the "cheaters", not the racers that get called on it, but the ones that never get caught. Maybe it's time for the Outboard Director to initiate some newer updated rules.

Week in and week out almost every race I attend has more B-Sport Tunnels than most classes. IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT Hobart has 20 entered so far, When was the last time you had 20 boats in a class?