OT

[piper_chuck]

It seems this thread is moving in a direction that's starting to cause hard feelings among people. Maybe it's time to get back to talking about boats?

 

[Don Ferrette]

Well I hate to say it Ray, but I agree with Brad. However, I do feel strongly that unions have a purpose and a place. Where might that be? The "little guys" who work on a more individual or small group basis. Guys like pipe fitters, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, machinists and other skilled trades like these. It's these people who need the "strength in numbers" that a union can offer, not telling some corporation that the guy pushing the broom out on the production line floor gets $25 an hour or they all go on strike. The unions have crippled the auto industry with unthinkable debt that has finally caught up with the big three, there is no more "restructuring" to buy time, time's up. Now don't get me wrong, the corporate big wigs have just as much blame here but the fix is going to have to come from both sides of the table. I'd bet if you asked any UAW line worker (when there are no union thugs around to hear) what he'd rather have, a little less $$ and no union dues or nothing when the union drives the whole deal under like it just did last night on the bailout? We all know the true answer to that one.
And BTW- this is just the tip of the iceberg. If GM, Ford and Chrysler start going belly up just wait to see the bad side of the "trickle down" theory and what it does to the hundreds of thousands of those who work on the "support" part of the industry making stuff for the big 3 ..............

I think if they wont bail even if they do its time to change management and the whole way auto makers do biz. Ive done a 20% trickle down cut in pay. I cant take more, time to cut the fat where the fat lays..................

i agree mike , it is the gettin fat on the hog jerks at the top that make millions in stock options a year..well i bet they wouldnt take a massive paycut tokeep it going, hell no they would just cash in and wash their hands of the whole deal..all these "gop" people on here and you can tell them who they are, well the bunch of them must have never had to work a hard day in their life..and probably been spoon fed like all rich whiney kids.

terry

So what are you saying Terry, if you don't support unions you're a rich whiney kid? Got news for ya pal, I spent alot years spinnin' wrenches as a master technician and did **** well without any unions around 'til my knees couldn't take it anymore. Spent the last year as a tech icing my knees down in the summer & wrapping heating pads on 'em in the winter after a typical rough day at the shop. Busted my azz to make a good living and didn't watch some high school drop out push a broom around a shop for $25 hour either ( I know someone in a union shop who did). Be careful where you tread saying stuff like that .....

 

[jydracing]

I Have Been watching the threads about the Bail outs and been watching the news close. I now a lot of people here like the union and a lot do not like the union. I Personaly do not care for them. To The ones that are in the unions on here I have a question. If the big 3 go out of business or moves to a right to work state or even to Mexico is the union going to cover your pay until they find you somewhere to work? Are they going to pay your medical ins.

We all know that the upper mgnt of the big 3 did not want to take pay cuts or do without. Is the head of the UAW willing to do without so that you can Keep your job and pay your bills? I Live here in South Carolina and there is a lot of People moving here from the north and when asked why they moved here there are usely three reasions given. 1 lower cost of living 2 the union drove my place of work out of business 3 Tired of working for the union

If the big 3 go out and all of the union workers do not have jobs so that they can collect there dues how long will it be before they are asking the goverment to bail them out. The unions depend on there people working so that they can collect there money to do with as they see fit. If there people are not working and no dues are comming in where is the money to cover your pay going to come from If the union pays you not to work.

I do not mean to step on anyones toes I just do not understand how the union will not consider anything to help out. They could have taken a little cut in pay for a few years and then told there members that if they will take the cut in pay to help keep the co from going out of business that they will not have to pay any dues until there pay came back up. But we all know that will not happen.

Well now that i put my target on It is time to work on some boats yall have fun See Ya Jimmy

By the way Don I know where you are comming from I have been spinning wrenches for 26 years and the knees arn't doing good at all maby i need to get the union in so that i can make more money doing a lot less and paying union dues until the shop goes belly up becouse the customer can not afford the labor rates.

 

[carlnoki]

Well, i just got little thought (question really).

What will happen to the Military if the big 3 falter? (inclusive of the supply chain)

What will happen to the UAW if the big 3 fall to there knees?

just food for thought folks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

carl

p.s. and yes i do agree that the UAW did blow it Thursday. just my personal opinion is all.

 

[Tim Kish]

Three months ago a local auto parts manufacturers employee's were convinced by its union to go out on strike , yes in these crazy times.

The company stated that it could not be competitive if it met the unions demands.

Yesterday they announced on the news that they are closed for good and that the company is bankrupt.

Tim K

 

[waltr]

I've got another one to add to the list.

My business manufactures OEM Stainless Marine hardware for the industry.

I moved from Florida to Michigan to service the LARGEST BOAT MANUFACTURER IN THE WORLD. Chris Craft boats.

We serviced Holland Mi.(the main plant for large cruisers), Sarasota Fl, Swansboro NC. and Elkhart In. And where is that Unionized company now? Gone!!

The Unions shut them down too. And they took me for close to $100,000 on the Bankruptcy. :angry:

Now they're back as a very small NON-UNION company with new ownership and 1 location.

And here's another reason the big 3 are falling behind.

The union mandates a maximum amount of parts per day that can be produced. One example is stamping.They're only allowed to stamp so many doors, fenders etc. per day. When that # is met, the presses are shut down. Long before shifts end. I had lunch with the owner of a company who manufactures the presses and feeders for the big 3 and also Toyota and Honda. I was told the non union companys produce 3 times the amount of parts per day as the big 3. As a business owner of over 25 years, I'm looking at a bunch of lazy slackers padding their jobs. If that were my employees, they'd be outta here in a hurry. My guys work until it's time to go home. We just couldn't afford to have that happen, and it looks like the big 3 can't either.

It's time for the government to revise the law that Mandates the big 3 must use union labor. The picnic is over.

With the moxy the UAW has, I'd love to see them strike now. Remember the air traffic controllers, great move!!

As far as blaming it all on the CEO salaries, almost irrelevant. A 10 million dollar salary, thats 2.5 mil a quarter and their loosing Billions per quarter. Do the math.

The CEOs of the big 3 DID agree to a $1.00 salary, now tell me how much of a pay cut your union leader took. You'll find none.

In it's day, the Union did the workers good, but not now. When they were formed, there was no foreign competition to compete against but times have changed. And if the competition never came, you'd probably be paying $80,000 for a bottom of the line Chevy today.

 

[anthony_marquart]

I actually love my job...

Funny no one ever says anything about the CEO and the management that have the high saleries and corporate jets etc. etc. Thay are supposed to run the corporation like a real business.It's easier to blame the unions and the people that do the labor.

Anthony, maybe you should look for a new employer.

 

[ZZ RACING]

I actually love my job...

Funny no one ever says anything about the CEO and the management that have the high saleries and corporate jets etc. etc. Thay are supposed to run the corporation like a real business.It's easier to blame the unions and the people that do the labor.

Anthony, maybe you should look for a new employer.

What about the 3 trillion WE gave the banks with no strings attached? Shouldn't we be crucifying them and not our neighbors who have a union job? After all, they created this mess giving loans to people who should never of gotten the loan to begin with all the while stuffing thier own pockets. UNION YES!!!! Now let the BS continue.

 

[steve wood]

just wonder if any of you people have insurance plans at work. maybe a pension plan. what about breaks during the day. and how about that 40 hours a week and overtime on saturday and sunday. and vacation to go on a boating trip once a year or so. without unions you wouldn't have any of it.

by the way i'm pro union.

 

[waltr]

just wonder if any of you people have insurance plans at work. maybe a pension plan. what about breaks during the day. and how about that 40 hours a week and overtime on saturday and sunday. and vacation to go on a boating trip once a year or so. without unions you wouldn't have any of it.
by the way i'm pro union.

I'm a small business,

We have a 401 plan (profit sharing) that I contribute to. Last year it was 16% of their annual wages.Unfortunately this year it will be less.

I pay 50% of the health insurance, dental and we have an eye care plan also.

As far as breaks and overtime, the Union has NOTHING to do with that. That's all set by the Dept of Labor. And yes, they do check. They came to my shop last year and after going through 3 years of time cards and records, we were commended for flawless records and practices.

Now vacation time, some of my long term employees receive 5 weeks paid, plus Holidays and the week between Xmas and New Years paid. That totals more than 7 weeks.

Now, besides 1/2 medical, what's the union doing for you?

 

[waltr]

I actually love my job...

Funny no one ever says anything about the CEO and the management that have the high saleries and corporate jets etc. etc. Thay are supposed to run the corporation like a real business.It's easier to blame the unions and the people that do the labor.

Anthony, maybe you should look for a new employer.

What about the 3 trillion WE gave the banks with no strings attached? Shouldn't we be crucifying them and not our neighbors who have a union job? After all, they created this mess giving loans to people who should never of gotten the loan to begin with all the while stuffing thier own pockets. UNION YES!!!! Now let the BS continue.

This country has more than one problem.

They all need to be addressed if anyone expects this economy to bounce back from this recession. If not, hold on tight, because,as they say, YOU AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET!!

 

[TomMoorehouse]

I'm personally very worried about the economy! This thread is making people mad so please be carefull. I work in the auto industry for a non union company and we are just getting killed from all the cutbacks in production. I have almost a month off from now till january 6th. It will be great to get some boat building done but my mortgage will suffer!

Anybody have any good news to share?

 

[carlnoki]

Steve;

to answer your question:

i do have retirement military

medical military

dental military

vacation military

40 hrs. week military not usualy more over than 40

breaks yepper

am now retired military for the last few years or so and am working for the nations largest bussing company First Group.

we bought out Laidlaw and Greyhound last year.

do we have a union? only at certain locations (diver only).

vacation yepper

medical yepper

dental yepper

retirement yepper

40 hrs. week yepper

breaks sometimes

only the driver portion of our company has unions if they so do chose to HAVE a union. not all sites have them nore do all want them.

like i stated in one of teh other posts, my brother in law is dumping his GM car sales and going Japanese and Korean in March of next year. He said he has seen the writing on the walls.

And being Prior military, if the big 3 do fall, what will you think will happen to the supporting agencies that the military uses

for all there vehicles? Think about it. and you should see what the DOD pays for THEIR parts support.

The unions DID do the U.S. workers good back in the day, but on the automotive side especially, they are over due for what we term in the military as phase out...................

just my opinion.

carl

 

[waltr]

Tom,

I wish we did have some good news to share, but we're suffering too.

No one is buying full scale boats right now. The people who want to buy just can't get financing. The Marine industry is DEAD.

Very poor!

I'm not against all unions, but this thread was about the UAW.

I'd just hate to see a crane operator swinging an I beam 20 stories above a crowd downtown Chicago with minimal credentials or similar.

There's a place in time for everything, but the time is now up for the UAW.

I really don't want to upset anyone, I just want this economy heading in the right direction.

It's not right now.

 

[carlnoki]

Tom;

no good news to report.

the news said this morning that GM is going to close 17 plants thru the end of Jan.

well, yeah, good news is that i will be building a 60 rigger over the winter time.

I have also been doing prop testing for Jim Schaefer at ABC props for teh CMB valvola motor.

and one of my sister in laws was snowed in just south of Jackson Mississippi a couple days ago. :lol: :lol: :lol:

carl

 

[Charles Perdue]

Yes, as a matter of fact my business is up (Independent auto repair shop), more people are keeping and repairing their older vehicles. The only problem is that I don't have enough time to play with the TOY BOATS. <_<

Our employee rules are simple: If you work, you eat (well). If you don't work, you don't eat (not well).

Charles

PS No mortgage

 

[David Homer]

For the past year I have been working at a Japanese-owned Honda supplier in Battle Creek. The company has NEVER had a layoff in its existence, until just before Halloween. 40-some people got the pink slip, including myself. I'm expected to be called back, as my layoff is due to a major rebuild of one of the presses in my department. They did shut down another department, and those folks got a permanent layoff.. I watch the financial news every day, as I'm not totally certain I will be called back. The company has been generous to me, extending the medical benefits till the end of December. Good thing too, as my wife has needed some urgent medical care over the past month. I'm a bit worried, though what would happen after the first of the year. My wife by no means is out of the woods health-wise. She's on Medicare due to her disability, but that's no real comfort knowing what she might have to go through.

Last year at this time we were working 7 days a week for 4 months straight. The company schedules a shutdown between Christmas and New Years. My department worked through it. This year, obviously, very different.

Even when I was working, I wasn't getting rich. There's a lot of folks in this country working to make parts for cars they can't afford to buy. Someone earlier in here mentioned $14 an hour like it was some sort of insult. Personally I'd jump at the chance to make $14 an hour.

Events over the past few years has definitely forced me to live within my means. I have no mortgage, I have no car payments, I may have about $200 on one credit card, that's it. I haven't played with the boats in several years... Unlike most of my co-workers, I can make it on unemployment benefits.

I don't feel sorry for Ford GM and Chrysler, because they really brought it on themselves. Part of me says let'em go bankrupt and emerge as a better competitor in the marketplace. But I also realize if they go down, chances are I will become a "victim" of the circumstances as well.

I also realize if I have to find another job, I'll be in competition with a lot of folks with better resumes than mine. I recently seen in a help wanted ad.. an $8/hour job where the minimum acceptable was 2 years of college....

I live truly day-to day, trying to make some sense of the economic uncertainty and trying to make some sort of plan for the future...

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

When I was young my dad worked at Ford assembly plant in Chicago. My dad and others were not treated or paid well back then. The union changed all that to a point where he was at least compensated for the hard work. Over the years though the pendulum swung the other way till Ford has to charge so much for a car just to pay all the employee benefits that no one wants to buy the car. I know, My dad left Ford some 25 years ago and still gets full health benefits and bonuses. I'm glad he does but how many cars have to be sold just to pay his benefits.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Well I hate to say it Ray, but I agree with Brad. However, I do feel strongly that unions have a purpose and a place. Where might that be? The "little guys" who work on a more individual or small group basis. Guys like pipe fitters, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, machinists and other skilled trades like these. It's these people who need the "strength in numbers" that a union can offer, not telling some corporation that the guy pushing the broom out on the production line floor gets $25 an hour or they all go on strike. The unions have crippled the auto industry with unthinkable debt that has finally caught up with the big three, there is no more "restructuring" to buy time, time's up. Now don't get me wrong, the corporate big wigs have just as much blame here but the fix is going to have to come from both sides of the table. I'd bet if you asked any UAW line worker (when there are no union thugs around to hear) what he'd rather have, a little less $$ and no union dues or nothing when the union drives the whole deal under like it just did last night on the bailout? We all know the true answer to that one.
And BTW- this is just the tip of the iceberg. If GM, Ford and Chrysler start going belly up just wait to see the bad side of the "trickle down" theory and what it does to the hundreds of thousands of those who work on the "support" part of the industry making stuff for the big 3 ..............

I think if they wont bail even if they do its time to change management and the whole way auto makers do biz. Ive done a 20% trickle down cut in pay. I cant take more, time to cut the fat where the fat lays..................

i agree mike , it is the gettin fat on the hog jerks at the top that make millions in stock options a year..well i bet they wouldnt take a massive paycut tokeep it going, hell no they would just cash in and wash their hands of the whole deal..all these "gop" people on here and you can tell them who they are, well the bunch of them must have never had to work a hard day in their life..and probably been spoon fed like all rich whiney kids.

terry

So what are you saying Terry, if you don't support unions you're a rich whiney kid? Got news for ya pal, I spent alot years spinnin' wrenches as a master technician and did **** well without any unions around 'til my knees couldn't take it anymore. Spent the last year as a tech icing my knees down in the summer & wrapping heating pads on 'em in the winter after a typical rough day at the shop. Busted my azz to make a good living and didn't watch some high school drop out push a broom around a shop for $25 hour either ( I know someone in a union shop who did). Be careful where you tread saying stuff like that .....

before you go shooting your mouth off there don you better bring it the right way, as for you "spinning" wrenches well that is great, i said "nothing" about you and your trade, infact i to am a former ase master certified technician and owned my own shops for several years and have done very well, i am making a statement in the post that , i feel it is the rich overpaid jerks at the top of the food chain that are making the real problems in my eyes, making way to much for their efforts and they can cripple the business at a moments notice, they are the spoiled rich kid types i am talking about not don ferrette, in fact i do not remember even using your name at all, you must have wanted to hear your voice or something there "pal" .. maybe go wrap your attitude in a heat wrap or something. i have been on both sides of the fence and in my "opinion" union is the way to go for what we do here..if you want to discuss this further feel free to email me or pm i have no problem at all with that..good day.

terry

oh and btw im with steve ..im pro union no matter the type .. former member of the local uaw 807 curent card carrying mamber of the local operators 150

 

[carlnoki]

OK Y'ALL

TOO much going on now.

Please do express your opinions in a VERY NICE manor OR ELSE i will have you babysitting my Wifes Grand niece!!!!!!!!

(and believe me, i wouldn't wish THAT on my worst enemy!!!!!!)

carl