Noise Commentary in IMPBA Roostertail

[izitbrokeyet?]

I don’t have a dog in this fight but I thought I might try to offer a fresh perspective on the noise issue.

Without getting into details

This point of view comes with a firm grounding in OSHA and in public perception.

I’ll try my best to boil down my point of view for everyone:

From an insurance point of view: the sound level limits stated by OSHA are great and are useful if you are in a situation where you could have to defend against a claim of hearing damage. OSHA does not in any way address and certainly doesn’t alleviate what is perceived as nuisance noise by non-boaters.

I see a lot of talking about what is an acceptable noise level, but if you go up against a community association “even if you own the property” you will loose because your local politicians will weigh the voices of their constituents (them) and boaters (us).

Boaters will come up short if we don’t control ourselves, our noise will be controlled by others.

 

[nitropilot]

My TWO CENTS!!!!!!! Mr. Randell hit the nail on the head. When he said take it to your DD and so on. The part that get me is he say " and the memebers vote on it."

DID ANY OF US CAST A VOTE on what was a OFFOICAL SURVEY!!!!!!!!!!!

I will say, ruled needed or not needed. " it is an unconstitutational rule that has no grounds to be inforced under any circumstances." IT WAS NOT VOTED ON BY ITS PAID MEMEBERS. I refference" Robert rules of order."

Dick Tyndall as a President bought forward a VOTE on noise. THE MEMBERS DEFEATED IT. And for those that know me. As a paid memeber my right to vote is no less vital that yours reguardless of location. This next one BETTER be a vote by the members. If not, than all the other hush, hush talk about NAMBA takeing over

and the "hidden Agenda" theory holds water. We were DUPED into the first rule.

SO who benfited for this? It could not be the memebers. They were decieved!

Republican, Democrate, what ever, you have the right to disagree. Pro-noise, no-noise same thing. The fact some of you don't RESPECT the other persons RIGHT

to his opinion is what landed you on the board. Keep it up. " No man is an Island."

But you can STAND ALONE!!!!!!!!!

So many people have cashed out and gone on to other things. And the MASS EXITS have come in the last year since the NEW RULE. Blame the rule or the rule makers. IS money the issue. Mabey the economy is not as strong as we think.

Family comes first. I have heard it all. Bottom line they are OUT NEVER to return.

WHAT is the direction of this oranization for the future. In three years time we

can expect more rules.............. Whats the new and EXCITING thing that IMPBA is plannig?????????? Waiting, but not long!!!!!

 

[F.Orlic]

After reading this thread I've realized I haven't stoped racing last four years because I got busy with other stuff, but rather because I got tired of hearing SAME people ***** and complain about everything, if is not noise than is the way races are run, the way rules are writen and so on and on.... I was ready to race again this year but maybe I should abstinate another ten years from racing. This is pathetic!!!!!!!

Advanced Racing Tech

Frank Orlic

 

[CySlyde]

hmm... well first i would like to say sorry about your loss mark. I hope that your sons spirit will live on.

second. I don't race, but at the cabin that i usually run at i have been told i am better than the gass guy (he's across the lake), but they prefer our neighbors rc better. guess what his is electric. When i do get a bigger boat, i will be getting a muffler. just for the fact that i like my lake and my neighbors. I really don't want to be the guy who everybody hates. or for that fact make my parents the ones everybody hates.

 

[ClayGlover]

I guess it might be just me, but I can't for the life of me understand what the big argument here is about. If IMPBA passes a Db max number, whatever that number may be, and all the race boats comply as verified with a Db meter, then the playing field is level, correct?

What is the "pro-noise" crowd's reason for not lowering the noise? :huh:

Who cares about performance loss, IF any at all? All boats will have the same noise restriction!

Is the debate because some people don't want to be forced to buy a new pipe or muffler? hahaha, I hope not.

Or, is it that the IMPBA organization is simply incapable of coming to a voted upon agreement?

I've read this entire thread, and to be honest, it really is kind of humorous. :lol: What the hell is all this hoopla about???? sheesh

-Stumped in Florida

 

[Joe Warren]

Preston, I`ll be glad to give you all the 1 on 1 boat Lesson you can stand... You boys keep it Civil & Bring some boats to the Nats. I have been to the last 5 out of 6 Nats. Never seen you before. We can talk SMACK till Dons Ass Falls off. But you can Bet we will Get it On @ the Nats.... P.S. Bring some spare Parts / Boats. Joe W

 

[ClayGlover]

edited and zipped my pie hole

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Preston, I sure hope your going ot the Nats! A little side deal like the looser has to conform to the others noise rule sure would make it worth the trip.

Maybe we need to start a "Get Preston To The Nats" campaign. You'd get enough backing that it would be a free trip!

 

[Piston1]

MARK,

I heard about your boy last week. Justin was a great competitor.

I read Doc's article in Roostertail and I thought it was a good article that presented factual information in a very simple and proffessional way. At the end of his article he presented his opinion on the issue but for some reason beyond my comprehension certain individuals in this board didn't like it and immediately started to attack. I respect Doc and I value his opinion and conclusions as the subject matter expert that he is. I also read in Roostertail the draft of the proposed new rule. It is clear to me that the board of directors of the IMPBA is actively engaged on addressing the issue and that the goal is to present a new formula that will include a 95db limit for membership voting later this year. Personally I think the present rule is adequate but on the other hand I recognize that more than likely a 95db limit is going to allow me to run straight Nitro pipes on my B class boats and allow me to unrestrict some of my bigger engines (at the cost of noise). I consider this a step in the wrong direction, the boats will be noisier and it will be difficult to enforce the rule consistently. My opinion is that the present rule is adequate as a National rule. Membership voting is essential on this issue.

JOSE

 

[ClayGlover]

Ah, please forgive my ignorance, now I understand. Thanks

 

[EatMyShortsRacing]

Hmmmm I remember this debate as well...

OK for starters lets clear a few myths here:

1: We are talking about boat noise limits where a boat is measured on the water at a maximum distance from the bank (your boat passes within a buoy at X distance when measured). Try measuring that boat on the stand at two feet and see how much louder it is. Sound naturally dissipates with distance so 100db at 50 feet may mean 120db right next to it. Remember you can talk over a boat going past in the fromt straight but you have to shout to your pitman if you are right next to the boat.

2: The 'add a muffler' Idea is a joke!!! Some of the so called mufflers I have seen added to boats do absolutely nothing to reduce noise and are really only there to pay lip service to the rules. Basically cheating the real reason for the rule.

3: We cant question the credentials of a Doctor in the ENT area, but most certainly we can question the way in which he has presented his arguments. Bikini Statistics are great!! What they show you is appealing but its what they hide is another story!!!! Look at the qualified doctors that were used to claim smoking wasnt bad for you??? Their use of available information to support their claims with their research is amazing!!! (yes I am a smoker too) Without controlled measurements of the real world situation all of the facts and fugures supplied by Doctor Turner are basically guesses and approximations. Get an independant controlled measurement done and let the cards fall as they will. Or even better, go buy a Radio Shack noise meter and do your own measurements. Maybe something you see with your own eyes may convince you of the real noise that you are subjecting yours and everyone elses ears to.

4: Still no good reason supplied as to why noise limits should not be enforced!!! The "members voted it down" is nowhere near a good enough reason. If the members all vote to stay on a sinking ship does that mean they can drown saying they were right???? No it means they were stupid enough to ignore the writing on the wall. Three main reasons for noise limits are loss of ponds (and you say not a problem where you race but it becomes your problem when you take your boat to another pond), loss of hearing (well personally I say you might as well go deaf coz you dont listen to reason anyway), and loss of money (when someone decides to sue your club because it does breach OSHA limits). Does anyone want to argue these points???? Or maybe even come up with a good reason for having loud boats???

EMS Racing turn it up!!!

 

[EatMyShortsRacing]

And I do have to ask why IMPBA is only going for 95db???

Isnt NAMBA 90db? If you are going to set a restriction why not try to make it in line with other organisations in the country? Australia is 90db and I think Europe is in general 80db!!!

EMS Racing We have a new secret strategy - we will use logic

 

[CySlyde]

you know after reading the whole thing again.. it kinda reminds me of my old bumper sticker....

"Never argue with an idiot, they will pull you down to thier level and beat you with expierence"

If you guys wanna run loud.. go ahead I am going to use a muffler with anything i consider loud. doesn't mean that i wont run with ya either.. it's just my choice

 

[Blaise Recca]

Don Faggitti and that guy Presstin can realy bring distaste to a hobby. Remember this is toy boats we are talking about here. Always whinning about somthing or other. I've seen how they run things at ODMB in Va. Kissing each others a_ _ s all the time. Presstin, you all still owe me my trophy from 40 mono at your "classic"

race. Take your noise arguments and place them,..... well you know.......and Don once in a while travel past your local pond into the big world and do some real racing. I've traveled the country but have never seen you anywhere but Va. Lots of talk, No chatter, but not alot of action. This is what I would expect from a person that devotes that much time to a hobby, you know, we are playing with toys, right........?

 

[gene gager]

up here in the great nothwest , division 8 namba , rest assured that you will see the quitest boats win the most races. and when new members join the club watch out for the guy or gal that learns that first cause he or she will beat you tommorrow. yes we also have ponds up here in the back woods that run what you broung is accepted, you will be told not to even think you are going to put it into sombodys neighborhood at our other tracks. turn things around in your area, let the problem pond caretakers know that you have volentarily set sound limites , restrited hours of pond use, will keep the p.a. system down. the people complaining don't know or wish to know about db meters, fomulas, just its noisy. period. be ready to quite your boat down when you travel to other areas. we need a new thread on how to shut up a boat easily and cheap. or pictures of exhast systems that are quiet and functional. and to the chap that was talking lawsuit for these little toy boat noises. thank god you didn't have to stand behind a HOWITZZER (with a double z) for a couple of years. cause the military don't give you stink for hearing loss, but they do give you freedom. com'on guys we have the computer, lets put it to some good use helping each club area,not dickering about a little boat noise. its going to be a great race season. gene gager

 

[GTR]

Hi Guys

I'd like to say this is democracy in action but all I'm seeing is people flinging $h!t at each other. This will not resolve anything. I respect the right of you all to have your opinions but I don't think uninformed 'I don't want to do this because I don't want to - or didn't vote for it' doesn't cut it. I am glad I'm in Australia.

For those of you that want to run loud, best of luck - when you loose your ponds, hearing, family support etc You will have succeeded in having your way and winning.

For those of you that want to be responsible and quiet community citizens - Don't try and jam it down the others throats because you are confused as they only really care about themselves. Don't waste your time and effort on trying to persuade them. LOGIC has nothing to do with this discussion.

Quiet guys run your boats - set your example - sheep will always follow a leader who appears to know the way. If someone can get Andy Brown to do 130MpH with a boat that is at 90DB I think the point is made.

One other thing to consider before I shut up completely on this subject - Internationally there are moves afoot to quieten ALL engines - this is currently threatening full size boats. If you have a look at current standards for light industrial engines you will find it is 77DB - you will find our engines are classified as light industrial. Either self regulate or have a national authority do it for you and then if they impose the 77DB limit how will you survive? Oh that's right everyone will start running electric boats - NOT - they will just quit.

That's all I have to say as a disinterested spectator.

 

[DaveMarles]

As an outsider looking at this discussion, I see a few things. I see 3 abusive people on here and they are the pro noise guys and that includes Bloos Rocker, obviously a very funny guy, Not. I see someone bringing a family bereavement into it to add weight to what they say, that I just do not understand.

I also see Frank Orlic who obviously has no noise problems where he’s at, but decries others trying to solve the problem that will become everyone’s problem sooner or later. Frank is a clever guy, why doesn’t he design some decent silencers? I don’t think that commenting on or discussing this problem is whining, I think the whiners are those who complain about moving on to what is I an inevitable conclusion. I have never met Preston, Don or any of the others trying to resolve this problem but I see them trying to do something about it in the same way they try to help people with technical help on this board. Then we have the same old pro noise arguments that have been around before. A few that spring to mind are.... I’m not going to be told what to do, I like my boats to be noisy, I don’t need my boats to be quiet because my lake is miles from anywhere, you cant measure the noise accurately, Its not going to damage anyone’s hearing. Pardon ‘could you say that again’, I can’t get my boats to run when they have mufflers, it’s a different noise level at a different lake. Some good ones at a race meeting are… the guy that backs of the throttle past the noise meter, the guy that runs in open water with no muffler because ‘its not the race and so I don’t need to be under the noise limit’, the guy that trickles water into a can on the pipe that he calls a muffler who’s boat is not too noisy on the lake but deafens everyone in the pits. Recognise any of this ?

95 db is very loud, I guess it’s a start to try that limit, but getting under that is not rocket science. Any good boater can get their boats under 95 db, its too easy. The ones who are not very competent and say they can’t do it/won’t do it are probably the same ones who hose you down in a race and cut the lanes to stop you passing.

Who cares what a doctor says. the problem is people complaining about noise, and that’s the environment, not OSHA or whatever. If you are losing lakes then get an environmental scientist to give you a few tips on noise measurement because I bet you will be over-run with them in a few years time, if not already.

I’ve raced under a lot of different noise measurement regimes and travelled a lot of miles doing it (probably more than Blues Rocket) and try to make sure my boats are under the limit. If I get pulled in a heat for noise, I don’t complain, I do something about it and you can believe me that I do complain if I think something is unfair.

By the way, regarding the guy threatening lawsuits, get a life.

Dave Rocket

 

[Tim Kish]

Maybe everyone should step back take a deep breath and remember

that this is an open forum.

I have been reading some of theese posts and they are definately turning me off this hobby and the IMPBA membership.

Can you imagine what a newcomber to this hobby must be thinking after reading

theese posts.

He or she will be gone even before they put a boat in the water.

Lets try to keep it civil and allow everyone an opinion if we scare away the new boaters you wont have to worry about noise because there will be no one to race with.

Maybe I should have spent all this money on golf lessons LOL.

Bad taste in my mouth Tim

 

[Don Ferrette]

"....and Don once in a while travel past your local pond into the big world and do some real racing. I've traveled the country but have never seen you anywhere but Va. Lots of talk, No chatter, but not alot of action."

I wasn't going to waste anymore energy on you pro noise clowns but personal attacks are B.S. & Blaise you are still a loser, coming in here & offering no constructive words only the same vile crap as you did on "that other board". As you have been told before if you can't offer any good be it whatever discussion, arguement or topic, you need to keep you big mouth shut. And BTW, for the record-

multiple times district champion

national champion

world record holder

member 100 mph club

Nah, I don't get out much. B)

 

[boaterbill]

Does it take a rocket scientist to understand Andy Brown set his world record using a muffled pipe and uses them in his boats. For those of you with the need for speed that are against the db limit you can keep on reading and dreaming about records with your unmuffled pipes, and killing the hobby by loosing ponds. Key word HOBBY. Another key word FUN. This is not a blood sport.

Bill