Noise Commentary in IMPBA Roostertail

[bzubee]

No difference reading between 3 ft away and fifty foot away??? What type of meter did he have? the meter Pat had at the SGRA race had a large difference in reading when you increase distance. At 50 foot from lake side all boats were legal 95db or a lot less, but when measured at the pit area much louder like Don had said.

 

[Ray 67]

My 2 cents worth,

If the hobby doesn't get a clue soon about how elitist is has become it will find that it has no place to run it's "little boats". So much for doing what you want and making as much noise as you want. Get real and fix the problem before it destroys the hobby.

Just my thoughts,

Ray Sr.

 

[Bart Drieghe]

Our Db meter ( for the races ) gets checked everytime before the race ( or every 1/2 year for sure )

the DB meter STANDS on the SAME place everytime , we have the rule of 80 DB === 82 u'll be left alone

===85 u get a warning , if its not better in the second heat u'll get disqualified for that heat .

Now i don't wanna be MR PICKY but , just make some sense ,

U hardly loose power ( ask Andy , ask Dave and all the others who are using them )

Its a lot better for people living nearby , not to mention the ones that are watching the race or the competitors self .

less complaints and everyone is happy .

a general rule : everyone is equal

Why on earth be against a db rule , besides , u're still 15 db higher then europe lol , make some sense guys and just cut the rope , go for a GENERAL rule in noise .

Bart

 

[Mike T.]

I don't think anyone running any reasonable kind of muffler or muffled pipe has much to worry about at 95 db and only a little to worry about if the rule were 92 db. Don Ferrette, John finch and I went out to tune and test the other day and Don set up a tripod with his db meter. The loudest thing we measured was below 92 db on the water, regardless of how close we ran to shore. Some used muffled pipes and some ran conventional chambers with a T-Mod stinger muffler added. Big nitro riggers and high-timed modded Zenoah 260's, all legal. Cowls and no cowls. Like Preston said, we've been muffled in ODMBA for a couple of seasons now, and nobody's going any slower. You can buy an add-on stinger muffler for $25 so it's not the money. I (and several other guys) make 'em to fit almost anything, so it's not the availablility. I don't think IMPBA officials are out to boot anyone for a technical violation here. Make a reasonable attempt and have a backup plan (water injection?) and go have fun. Life's not that bad.

 

[_laxmasta2039]

dont we elect the impba officials?

how long till this batch's terms expire?

seems to me, a large majority of us arnt stupid and understand that a db limit is needed, so we should be able to elect officials of the same mind.

btw,

Preston are you bringin any of those rented boats ta the odmba points race sunday?

Joe

 

[Don Ferrette]

Anyone wanna bet that the boat Pat metered over 106 db in Slidell was the above posting Joe W.???  Last fall at the Slidell race, during open water, someone launched a boat that immediately turned all heads.  It was Joe W. practicing with no muffling device at all.  It was a single rigger that seemed twice as loud as many of the twins on the water.  During the race that weekend, if you were in his heat, good luck setting a needle.  When another boat is louder at buoy 3 than yours is as it passes the drivers stand, uh, too loud.
Not scientific, just listening....

So what you are saying is here we had Joe Warren blatantly violating even the current rule requiring some form of muffling device, in front of the race CD & even the IMPBA President & nobody did or said anything?? He was allowed to race anyway?? What a freakin' joke! Don't even think of pulling that crap in district #12. I think Bob Kensill's right, it's way past time for the board to grow some balls! :angry: :angry: :angry:

 

[GTR]

Hi Guys

The debate you guys have over an issue like noise amazes me. If it doesn't slow your boat down - now I'm not talking about perception but empirical data - what is the issue?

To the reference on DB meters and accuracy - +2/-2 @ 114DB means a total of 4DB variation at that sound level - or around 3.5% error. Of course at 95DB the error is lower, that is the nature of sound (DBs).

DB meters don't care if there is one boat or 6 boats they measure the loudest noise there - not some cumulative sound effect of multiple sources. Try taking your DB meter to a local park and just watch the needle it repsonds to noise spikes, especially loud ones but lower frequencies have a much greater sound pressure level than high frequency ones, hence more DB.

DB is simply the comparison of a predetermined (usually A scale) sound pressure level and that picked up from the source. Are you guys aware that sound operates in a logrithmic fashion and that 100DB is not 10% louder than 90DB but is close to double - forgive me not working out the math as it's late here and I'm tired. Either way my point is everytime you know 5DB of the sound level you make a huge contribution to keeping boating alive and maybe having more families participate. Have you ever watched people cringe when a loud boat starts in the pits - DOES THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING. If you don't get a grip on this I'm sure you will all enjoy the ringing in your years for many a year before total deafness takes hold.

Hope you get it sorted out.

 

[Joe Warren]

Don, You & Preston Work on Your Quite Boats & Dont forget to bring the fast ones to the IMPBA NATS. You going to NEED them....... C you there....... Joe W.

 

[garrett randall]

These noise threads are always pointless. Go to your local DD and ask him/her to submit a proposal for them/then membership/then them again to vote on.

If you don't like that route...or if you want something done quicker, do it either at a local club or district level. You have the power to quiet boats down.

It's that simple folks...D1 figured it out, some of D4 figured it out, sounds like Bob Kensill figured it out for his district...and others I may not have mentioned...

Its not rocket science...you stick a meter near the water and call it a day...

Garrett Randall

 

[Preston_Hall]

Don, You & Preston Work on Your Quite Boats & Dont forget to bring the fast ones to the IMPBA NATS. You going to NEED them....... C you there....... Joe W.

I'd rather have a little one-on-one. Why let 5 other boats that you couldn't get past be an excuse? Are you trying to discredit the point that I might actually own a few boats? And what does that have to do with noise anyhow? Talking about stinking to the point. GEEZ.

Don and I are legal and apparently so is everybody at ODMBA. 95 db is EASILY met.

I'd like to see the db rule just so I might trash the mufflers on the .21 and .12. Not that they hender speed but because it is only one more thing to do.

I don't know why the surroundings would amplify a sound wave (obviously it has affected some tests). Look at a ripple/wave in the water. No matter what it hits the ripple/wake gets no larger.

 

[Zimmerman]

Preston,

I agree with you totally. I think it's a matter of what's around to soak up the noise. An empty room will actually echo. The same room with carpet, furniture, etc. is MUCH quieter.

Rich

 

[Terry Keeley]

Don, You & Preston Work on Your Quite Boats & Dont forget to bring the fast ones to the IMPBA NATS. You going to NEED them....... C you there....... Joe W.

Fur sure I'm gonna hang back if I'm in heat with you two... :blink:

 

[bzubee]

10-4 on that one Terry but you don't really have a choice on hanging back do you? :lol:

 

[Mark Bullard]

Well I am writing this the day after I have had my 18 year old son's funeral that was killed in a car acident last wednesday. Therefore I will not be very nice about what I am about to say. Don I knew that you would stick your foot in your mouth when this came out. Dr Gary Turner is a expert on the ears and hearing. He is a Ears, Nose, and Throat doctor. And his shingles are very long. So therefore I would suggest that you and everybody else be careful of what you say about this since you and others know nothing about this. The fact is the report is based on the laws of physics dealing with the Nature of Sound. Now if you want to rewrite the laws of physics you are showing that you are as brite as a 10 watt light bulb. As for Slidell I was there, I know what happened you do not need to go there with that subject. There where many louder boats there with muffler devices but some of the loudest boats never got above 95db at a 50ft spot from the shore line. I did see some of the louder boats go to about 98 to 100db but that was from a distance of less that 20 to 30ft from the boat to my table since the db meter was on my table a lot. Many of us took many readings at that pond from many angles and many different distances. And the results where the same you can not rewrite the laws of physics. As for the present muffler rule it will work. It will be better that a db rule and everyone is trying to comply, it will just take time. I am going to only say this once do not push this issue and single people out because you think they are louder. Because you will lose this battle, because someone that you single out might see just how deep your pockets are.

Mark Bullard

Impba # 9123 S/CD

 

[Chris Attebery]

Mark,

First off, I have only talked to you once in my life, about five years back, but I am really sorry to hear about your son. I hope you and your family can come to grips with his death.

Now, Are you saying that "someone" would rather sue than have to quiet their boats down? Or that Don is making false accusations? Either way, we need to realize that this is a HOBBY. Somebody suing someone else over model boats is someone who needs to get a life. We are supposed to doing this for fun.

I don't know any of the parties involed personally, but I will say this. It seems that there are alot of people getting "hot" over the noise issue in IMPBA. I don't care who said it, if you are at a race all day where people are running unmuffled boats you will develop hearing problems. While the boats on the water may not be over 95 db, they are certainly over 95db in the pits. Do your ears ring after a day of racing or testing? If so you are damaging your ears. I notice that my ears ring sometimes and we are running under a 90db rule in our district. Just so everyone understands, 90db is a little over 1/4 of the perceived noise level that 95db is.

We had ALOT of bitching and whining when we instituted the 95db, then 92db and then 90db rules. But everyone is still fast and the records and neighbor complaints keep falling. You guys must be lucky enough to live in an area where there aren't houses right next to the ponds. We lost all of the ponds in Sacramento, CA to noise and environmentalists. We now have about 4 ponds we can use in Northern California. Most of those are restricted as to how many races we can hold and when. Eventually, we will all be under state or federal noise limits, just like they have in Europe. Better start working on your muffled setups now.

I really hope you guys can come to an agreement soon, because I think that NAMBA will start inheriting some districts soon. Already happened in Florida, didn't it?

Chris

 

[Don Ferrette]

"Well I am writing this the day after I have had my 18 year old son's funeral that was killed in a car acident last wednesday. Therefore I will not be very nice about what I am about to say. Don I knew that you would stick your foot in your mouth when this came out. Dr Gary Turner is a expert on the ears and hearing. He is a Ears, Nose, and Throat doctor.....BLAH, BLAH, BLAH"

A death in the family is tough that's for sure & I would not wish that heartache on anyone. Why you choose to open you post with it is beyond me. Are you playing for sympathetic heartstrings since NONE of you can offer a legitimate reason not to do this other than you don't want to?? You & your pro noise cronies haven't changed on bit in the last few years. And I got news for you pal, being an ENT doctor does NOT automatically make one an expert on hearing. That's why they have HEARING SPECIALISTS, of which I have seeked advice & information from no less than 4 different ones, ALL yielding vitually the same recommendations. I wanted to be sure of what I was being told, something the medical profession calls a SECOND OPINION. Well I wanted even more than that. I have done EXTENSIVE hands on testing with dB meters to be able to give these HEARING SPECIALISTS enough ACCURATE information. I'm smart enough to be able to back an arguement with facts & REAL WORLD testing, all you clowns can do is *****. A good friend & many times champion boater reminded me that people like you & Joe are, in fact, a MINORITY in this & certainly not worth wasting any more breath over, I think he is right. Besides, as he put it, you can't have a battle of wits with unarmed people & you guys' chambers are empty on this one.

 

[Chris Wood]

Hey guys,

Well when the muffler issue first come up i to was like many, find a way around it, well I have since thought alot about it and it is stupid.

Really this shouldn't even be a issue, make the change and be done with it. The first step it to make the change, even if it isn't the greatest, do it.. then look at other ways to make it better. if nothing ever gets done we will still be talking about this for years to come.

I agree with don and preston, it is not good for the sport, nor the people.

I guess if i had a suggestion is this. Our sport is a nitch hobby, meaning very few people make the products we use, unlike cars where everyone under the sun makes products.

so with that being said, why don't the manufactures step up and make some muffled pipes, test test test and test some more. get them right, then sell them.

and only offer them, not nitro unmuffled pipes. make it to where you have to run a muffled pipe, then there would be no questions.

there is only 2-4 companys right now that offer muffled pipes. as for change well I don't like it either but, change is better than sitting around and wishing we could race but we can't because our lakes have been taken away from us racers.

just my 2 cents

chris

 

[Terry Keeley]

10-4 on that one Terry but you don't really have a choice on hanging back do you? :lol:

Ya, I'll just suck on the hind one and go around the dead wood

 

[Terry Keeley]

Wow, just read your post Mark, very sorry to hear that...

 

[Joe_Knesek]

An alternative solution is to get the db limit passed in your own district. If enough districts pass the db rule, Joe Warren's district will be the only one without one and it will not be so hard to get it passed at the National level. If it never gets passed, Joe will be isolated to his own district.

After reading over Doc's note again, it seems to me that he is suggesting that noise is an issue, at least for our youth. If for any other reason, this is enough reason to make a change. My kids spent last summer with me at the Nats and they plugged their ears the whole time. They still had headaches at the end of the day and said their ears were ringing.

Just so everyone knows, Mark's boats were actually quiet and he used what looked like a handball on the end of the pipe. It doesn't take much.

P.S. Mark, my prayers go out to you and the rest fo your family.