IMPBA scale rules

[Don Ferrette]

So if I glue some rear shoes on my 1985 7-11 because the top of the boat looks right that would be okay according to the new rules. I would do it because they help the boat handle better all of you say that is okay right? Don where does it say in the rules I can not do that? Looks right, I painted it right, so I am good to go?

All of you have missed the point it is not about the fine line scale appearance, it is about adding performance enhancements that the real boat did not run or come close to running. How about 3 pounds of lead weights glued to the top of a deck and painted over. Or cutting the front bow blocks far back so the boat doesn't get as much lift but in NO WAY looks like the real thing. Why is it in the sportsman classes they limit the way a hull can be cut out? But in scale IMPBA the guy cuts out half the back end adds over 1" 1/2 of rear shoes that look nothing like the real boat it is okay? Doug got ripped years ago because he ran his Winston Eagle with out the rear horizontal wing. He was told it was not the way the boat raced. However it set a world record 170 in Detroit running the boat that way. He put his wing back on. So I guess it is all in who you are then. One word look it up maybe it will clear it up for you. Integrity

1/8 scale has become just another class to run.

That is the end of my horse he has become glue so I am going to go and put on my rear shoes now.

I'm not trying to get into some great debate here but what is not clear about-

All models must be of a real unlimited hydroplane as listed in the APBA Master Hull Roster list. The

model owner must show the real boat attempted to qualify, qualified or raced in an actual sanctioned

racing event, in the configuration being modeled, via photographic and/or written documentation.

Failure to adequately meet the validation requirements can result in the model not being allowed to

compete in an IMPBA event until proper documentation is obtained.

If you hang shoes on a boat or cut the bow blocks back or whatever you need to have a pic of the real one running that way at a sanctioned event especially if there's a chance someone will question your boat.

Then Don If I can not run rear shoes because I do not have a picture of them but we have a picture of the dagree boat with much shorter rear shoes and NO swim deck and we let that boat race in a national event then you just contradicted yourself and the rules.

If the boat wasn't legal then why didn't anyone pony up the $5 protest fee and protest it??? This is one of the things that always chafes my azz, people don't have the ballz to officially protest a boat at a race but burn up the forums bitching about it after the fact. I wasn't the CD of that race and it's up to the CD so I didn't contradict squat I just printed the rules.
And BB- the rulebook has been going through a MAJOR revamp and update to be put on line. Kevin will have the webmaster uploading it soon. And there already is a complete set of Thunderboat rules and have been for a couple years.

Do you guys bother to even read the Roostertail to keep up with the rule changes and additions??

For that matter did you all even vote on them??

You guys go ahead and argue away as I've said what needed to be said and am done with this nonsense!

 

[Gale54]

So if I glue some rear shoes on my 1985 7-11 because the top of the boat looks right that would be okay according to the new rules. I would do it because they help the boat handle better all of you say that is okay right? Don where does it say in the rules I can not do that? Looks right, I painted it right, so I am good to go?

All of you have missed the point it is not about the fine line scale appearance, it is about adding performance enhancements that the real boat did not run or come close to running. How about 3 pounds of lead weights glued to the top of a deck and painted over. Or cutting the front bow blocks far back so the boat doesn't get as much lift but in NO WAY looks like the real thing. Why is it in the sportsman classes they limit the way a hull can be cut out? But in scale IMPBA the guy cuts out half the back end adds over 1" 1/2 of rear shoes that look nothing like the real boat it is okay? Doug got ripped years ago because he ran his Winston Eagle with out the rear horizontal wing. He was told it was not the way the boat raced. However it set a world record 170 in Detroit running the boat that way. He put his wing back on. So I guess it is all in who you are then. One word look it up maybe it will clear it up for you. Integrity

1/8 scale has become just another class to run.

That is the end of my horse he has become glue so I am going to go and put on my rear shoes now.

I'm not trying to get into some great debate here but what is not clear about-

All models must be of a real unlimited hydroplane as listed in the APBA Master Hull Roster list. The

model owner must show the real boat attempted to qualify, qualified or raced in an actual sanctioned

racing event, in the configuration being modeled, via photographic and/or written documentation.

Failure to adequately meet the validation requirements can result in the model not being allowed to

compete in an IMPBA event until proper documentation is obtained.

If you hang shoes on a boat or cut the bow blocks back or whatever you need to have a pic of the real one running that way at a sanctioned event especially if there's a chance someone will question your boat.

Then Don If I can not run rear shoes because I do not have a picture of them but we have a picture of the dagree boat with much shorter rear shoes and NO swim deck and we let that boat race in a national event then you just contradicted yourself and the rules.

If the boat wasn't legal then why didn't anyone pony up the $5 protest fee and protest it??? This is one of the things that always chafes my azz, people don't have the ballz to officially protest a boat at a race but burn up the forums bitching about it after the fact. I wasn't the CD of that race and it's up to the CD so I didn't contradict squat I just printed the rules.
And BB- the rulebook has been going through a MAJOR revamp and update to be put on line. Kevin will have the webmaster uploading it soon. And there already is a complete set of Thunderboat rules and have been for a couple years.

Do you guys bother to even read the Roostertail to keep up with the rule changes and additions??

For that matter did you all even vote on them??

You guys go ahead and argue away as I've said what needed to be said and am done with this nonsense!

Don First off the boat was not even registered in any district so no one could protest anything... So it had to go threw tech and that is when according to you and the new rules it should have been found illegal. And then everyone found it necessary to shut up the National Scale Director because he was on my side. Wasn't this a national event? So the National Scale Director has no say? It was swept under the table because of who it was.

And yes I vote and read the roostertail so that dog don't hunt with me.

So it gets a little hot and you are done with this nonsense?

You are an elected IMPBA official you need to listen to your people. They have been talking to you and others but you do not listen so we resort to blogs on IW to get your and other elected officials attention. I am a paid senior member of the IMPBA and deserve your full attention on this period. You should run for Congress things get hot or it is not as important to you and your investors first you try the pantomimic two step. Then when that doesn't work then it becomes nonsense, and it is my fault for not keeping up on your news letter of important actions you have done.

This is wrong you know it is wrong so fix it instead of running away or use other excuses.

 

[Bigbird]

So if I glue some rear shoes on my 1985 7-11 because the top of the boat looks right that would be okay according to the new rules. I would do it because they help the boat handle better all of you say that is okay right? Don where does it say in the rules I can not do that? Looks right, I painted it right, so I am good to go?

All of you have missed the point it is not about the fine line scale appearance, it is about adding performance enhancements that the real boat did not run or come close to running. How about 3 pounds of lead weights glued to the top of a deck and painted over. Or cutting the front bow blocks far back so the boat doesn't get as much lift but in NO WAY looks like the real thing. Why is it in the sportsman classes they limit the way a hull can be cut out? But in scale IMPBA the guy cuts out half the back end adds over 1" 1/2 of rear shoes that look nothing like the real boat it is okay? Doug got ripped years ago because he ran his Winston Eagle with out the rear horizontal wing. He was told it was not the way the boat raced. However it set a world record 170 in Detroit running the boat that way. He put his wing back on. So I guess it is all in who you are then. One word look it up maybe it will clear it up for you. Integrity

1/8 scale has become just another class to run.

That is the end of my horse he has become glue so I am going to go and put on my rear shoes now.

I'm not trying to get into some great debate here but what is not clear about-

All models must be of a real unlimited hydroplane as listed in the APBA Master Hull Roster list. The

model owner must show the real boat attempted to qualify, qualified or raced in an actual sanctioned

racing event, in the configuration being modeled, via photographic and/or written documentation.

Failure to adequately meet the validation requirements can result in the model not being allowed to

compete in an IMPBA event until proper documentation is obtained.

If you hang shoes on a boat or cut the bow blocks back or whatever you need to have a pic of the real one running that way at a sanctioned event especially if there's a chance someone will question your boat.

Then Don If I can not run rear shoes because I do not have a picture of them but we have a picture of the dagree boat with much shorter rear shoes and NO swim deck and we let that boat race in a national event then you just contradicted yourself and the rules.

If the boat wasn't legal then why didn't anyone pony up the $5 protest fee and protest it??? This is one of the things that always chafes my azz, people don't have the ballz to officially protest a boat at a race but burn up the forums bitching about it after the fact. I wasn't the CD of that race and it's up to the CD so I didn't contradict squat I just printed the rules.
And BB- the rulebook has been going through a MAJOR revamp and update to be put on line. Kevin will have the webmaster uploading it soon. And there already is a complete set of Thunderboat rules and have been for a couple years.

Do you guys bother to even read the Roostertail to keep up with the rule changes and additions??

For that matter did you all even vote on them??

You guys go ahead and argue away as I've said what needed to be said and am done with this nonsense!

I'm glad your done, We shouldn't have to dig through Roostertails to find current rules. That's the problem. And yes I have voted. Back in the day, if there was a rule change, IMPBA sent all of its members and update page to replace the rule in their printed rule book. If your looking in a 2007 Roostertail, I think there has been enough time for IMPBA to rewrite a single page in a digital rule book. I voted on the one year trial Thunderboat rules and they were voted down. So as far as I know there are no Thunderboat rules. If IMPBA can't maintain a digital rule book then lets go back to paper. The USPS needs the business.

 

[Bigbird]

HOGWASH!!!

 

[Bigbird]

So Jesus is going to rise up out of the 5 years of Roostertails and give us our salvation......

WOOT WOOT

 

[SayMikey]

Don your words" But, the reason it was looked at is the after plane" Our rules mention nothing about the afterplane NAMBA and RCU do. Wes's Pic clearly shows extensions on this boat. Over the years ive seen lots of good bad and ugly attempts to create scale boats,luckily we have guys like David Newton and Chris Denslow to take good pics to go from........

 

[Douglas P Shepherd]

A- MEN BROTHERRRRR BIRD

 

[Don Ferrette]

Don First off the boat was not even registered in any district so no one could protest anything... So it had to go threw tech and that is when according to you and the new rules it should have been found illegal. And then everyone found it necessary to shut up the National Scale Director because he was on my side. Wasn't this a national event? So the National Scale Director has no say? It was swept under the table because of who it was.

And yes I vote and read the roostertail so that dog don't hunt with me.

So it gets a little hot and you are done with this nonsense?

You are an elected IMPBA official you need to listen to your people. They have been talking to you and others but you do not listen so we resort to blogs on IW to get your and other elected officials attention. I am a paid senior member of the IMPBA and deserve your full attention on this period. You should run for Congress things get hot or it is not as important to you and your investors first you try the pantomimic two step. Then when that doesn't work then it becomes nonsense, and it is my fault for not keeping up on your news letter of important actions you have done.

This is wrong you know it is wrong so fix it instead of running away or use other excuses.

Ya know I was done but I gotta go one more time....

You sure are a different person face to face, I enjoyed chatting with you at the Nats, you seemed like a pretty cool dude.

And now from your keyboard comes the likes of ...

"You should run for Congress"

"you try the pantomimic two step"

"so fix it instead of running away or use other excuses"

...all because you're not happy with something that happened there.

What a disappointment.

Obviously I missed the whole thing because my focus was on my boats and ya know what ... it doesn't really matter. Not my district, not my event, I had no say anyways, the CD makes the final call as it has always been. I'm not saying it was right or wrong, but the fact remains it's the CD's call.

There's proper procedure in how you deal with changes and it starts with your district director. Not me, not Kevin, not anyone else on this or any other forum for that matter. If you don't like how things are then maybe you and the rest of your Madison crew who seem so ruffled because of what happened at Evansville need to sit down a come up with a proposal to fix this supposed grievous injustice and submit it to your district director. I think the 2007 scale rules updates are fine but that's just my opinion .... as well as all those who voted in favor of them 4 years ago.

And I most certainly do listen to "my people" as I take great pride in the members I have here in D12, I consider them among the best in the IMPBA. All this forum stuff is chatter and opinion, some right, some wrong and some total ....well let's not even go there.

You want this fixed then be part of the solution and come up with a rules proposal and submit it to your director instead of helping turn this into another thread that dies a slow death and solves nothing.

I don't run away from anything but I will walk away from an obviously over pummeled horse carcass that this thread has become.

Have a nice day.

 

[Bigbird]

The problem is Don, is that on IW you make it sound like you are the big shot. You're right in the middle of this, but then when things don't go your way, you try to differ it to someone else. You do hold an influential position . You are right on one point. There are procedures that could have and should have been followed .

I think instead of getting mad and saying I'm done, you could put yourself in a position to be part of the solution. I think that would deflect some of the negative comments and make this a more positive situation.

 

[P THOMAS]

'Gale54' timestamp='1313538876' post='429949'Then Don If I can not run rear shoes because I do not have a picture of them but we have a picture of the dagree boat with much shorter rear shoes and NO swim deck and we let that boat race in a national event then you just contradicted yourself and the rules.[

Don, please send me that picture. I would like to see if my boat will do the Degree with out mods.

Thanks Phil Thomas

 

[P THOMAS]

I see a picture of the transom of the Degree at San diego.

It would be close if the rear sponon tips were squared off

http://cdenslow.smugmug.com/Unlimited-Hydroplanes/2010-Season-UH/2010-San-Diego-Friday/13828162_yZSsw#1014734270_BLaS8

There you go Wes now you can fix your boat and make everyone happy.

 

[Gale54]

Phill the answer man. It was not all about Wes boat but about the rules need to be changed to help things like this from happening again and again.

 

[Gale54]

Wes, I am sorry it was you and your boat that started this thread. I never thought for a moment one of your boats would come into question. Every scale boat I have ever seen you race or compete with was right on no doubt. I remember you winning the Madison race with a Miss Madison scale that was just spot on. So what happend with the degree boat? Did you spend all your time on the wrap work and miss the pictures? Or did you not have good pictures of the back end? Just Curious like I said would have never thought it was you.

 

[P THOMAS]

Phill the answer man. It was not all about Wes boat but about the rules need to be changed to help things like this from happening again and again.

The rules are good, You, Me, everyscale builder, race CD, and scale directors need to follow proper procedures. Then there are no suprises.

 

[Bigbird]

Phill the answer man. It was not all about Wes boat but about the rules need to be changed to help things like this from happening again and again.

The rules are good, You, Me, everyscale builder, race CD, and scale directors need to follow proper procedures. Then there are no suprises.

WOW!!!

 

[Bigbird]

I have a thought. You never see anyone from NAMBA or RCU having these problems. Their scale rules are layed out, and are well defined, without question. So there are no vague arguments. If IMPBA rules are fine then why do we keep coming back to this. I think they need fixing. I guess I care enough about the class to actually give a darn and not run a boat that is not true to scale.

BB

 

[Mike McKnight]

Mike I can give you examples of how even with the rules spelled out in black and white where there have been issues at NAMBA events including Nationals. I was the NAMBA Scale Chairman plus a co-CD for a particular Nationals. I had a boat entered in scale attempting ot run that had a big mass of lead weights on the deck of the left sponson. I approached the driver and informed him that the use of those weights on the deck would not be allowed. It's not like the driver even made an efforts to conceal them either. Several BIG strips of tire weights right on the deck! Believe it or not I was told I had to allow it since it was a concourse issue. S'cuse me? I said ok fine show me a picture that shows this on the real boat. Now I defy anyone to show me any real 8255 hull that ever ran with big strips of lead on the deck. It was a performance enhancement plain and simple. Not only was I told that it was a concourse issue but I was told that since this driver was allowed to run that way in his own district that we had to allow it at the Nationals. So my response was "So why do we have a National Rule Book if each district can make up their own rules?" I can understand each district being able to make rules that supplement the National Rule Book with rules that are specific to that district. But not if they are in direct contravention of the National Book. I was willing to uphold the rules and enforce them and I was over ruled. So maybe you like our rules better than yours but it does absolutely no good unless the powers that be have the stones to enforce them regardless of friendships or politics.

Trust me we have had our share of arguments at the district level and at the Nationals. It's amazing though that just a few years removed from that Nationals we had an issue regarding bottom angles on Crackerboxes just a few months ago at this year's Nats, the powers that be actually had to eliminate 7 of 21 boats for being illegal. The rule book was followed to the T this time but not a few years ago when it came to Scale. So if you are going to write rules, the rules need to be enforced ALL the time. Too many times rules that are already there are ignored.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

That's when you let the person race but instead of points put a goose egg, DNS or DSQ next to the boat on the score sheet. Sooner or later l'll bet the driver will get the message

 

[RodneyPierce]

wow! This reminds me of my day job, and the office people I have to deal with.

 

[Jeremy Linney]

I have a thought. You never see anyone from NAMBA or RCU having these problems. Their scale rules are layed out, and are well defined, without question. So there are no vague arguments. If IMPBA rules are fine then why do we keep coming back to this. I think they need fixing. I guess I care enough about the class to actually give a darn and not run a boat that is not true to scale.
BB

The event is in the books, done, over with. Why are we crying over spilled milk. I fully support Don on this issue and I will end my presence in this thread with this. If you do not like the way things are being ran in the IMPBA, follow proper steps to submit recommended changes or go race in NAMBA or RCU sanctioned events. Last thing this hobby needs is negativity like this. I am relatively new to the boating scene and I come from offroad electric and nitro racing. I took a break from that hobby due to all the bs drama and grown men wanting to fight over toy cars. This hobby is supposed to be a way to blow off steam and have fun with friends and family. This is starting to feel like offroad all over again.