IMPBA scale rules

[Hydro Junkie]

I know that T-2 and T-3 had offset engines and cockpits, as did the 88-06 Madison. As for the rest of the turbine fleet, you would need to look at pictures of a particular boat to know. This is where the plans can be of little help. One that will surprise many is that the 77 Atlas had a roughly 6" left offset engine,cowl and cockpit, even though most build it centered. Another one that many don't do is modify the cowl to show the two nitro bottles in the back of the engine bay on the 80 or 81 boat.

 

[Don Ferrette]

From the 2007 Scale rules changes (IMPBA ballot #07-005)

1. All models must be of a real unlimited hydroplane as listed in the APBA Master Hull Roster list. The

model owner must show the real boat attempted to qualify, qualified or raced in an actual sanctioned

racing event, in the configuration being modeled, via photographic and/or written documentation.

Failure to adequately meet the validation requirements can result in the model not being allowed to

compete in an IMPBA event until proper documentation is obtained.

The 2007 IMPBA scale rule changes are fine as written but seems a number of people are not aware of them because they (like a few other rules) are still not yet updated in the rulebook (that is about to change asap). Regardless, nobody is talking about splitting hairs over the minute accuracy of a boat, it simply needs to be a legitimate hull, documented and closely modeled after the real thing. Do we want to DQ someone because the swim platform is 1/8" too wide? Of course not but what needs to happen is that, quite simply, a legitimate boat that raced or attempted to qualify is duplicated. This is not rocket science folks, just simple documentation and an effort to do it right. Get the basic info off the master hull roster to show it is or was a registered boat and provide photo documentation of the real one you are trying to duplicate. How far into the realm of detail one decides to go as far as a race boat vs. a Concours queen is up to the builder. It was mentioned earler that there are some who are racers, some who just want 50 points to qualify for Concours and the few who are crazy enough to want both. I'm one of those nut jobs who wants the wow factor in how my scales look and to race it hard as well. I remember when I finished my '96 Smokin' Joe's and John Finch had stopped by the house, he looked at the boat and said I was out of my flippin' mind to even consider racing it (certainly not the first time I've heard that either). Bottom line is when it comes to scale unlimiteds, build it to a legitimate RACE boat (not a display or test boat), do your best to make it look like the real one and have the documentation (photos) to prove it's legit. That's never been an issue for me as I look at tons of pics before I even dicide to start on a new scale build so my documentation is already on hand.

 

[Greg Hahn]

Don, nuff said, well put

 

[Dasboatman]

HJ,

I just checked 2010 R/C Unlimited and 2010 NAMBA MHRs and they both show tunnel width to be 7' 6" or 90 inches for the 8806.

My point here is: when a hull is presented for registration, the Registrar or District Scale Director is going to use the measurement published in the applicable MHR. It's the best source that we have at present and available to all over the Internet. I rather enjoyed getting rid of the old MHR I had printed over the years. I enjoy having the most current document available to reference. CHEERS !!! Bob

 

[Bigbird]

Can of worms...

 

[Hydro Junkie]

This whole topic is a can of worms BB. I have to agree with Don's last post, make it as close as you can and call it good. If you have the pictures to back your boat up and someone wants to pitch a fit, it's their problem

 

[Gale54]

So if I glue some rear shoes on my 1985 7-11 because the top of the boat looks right that would be okay according to the new rules. I would do it because they help the boat handle better all of you say that is okay right? Don where does it say in the rules I can not do that? Looks right, I painted it right, so I am good to go?

All of you have missed the point it is not about the fine line scale appearance, it is about adding performance enhancements that the real boat did not run or come close to running. How about 3 pounds of lead weights glued to the top of a deck and painted over. Or cutting the front bow blocks far back so the boat doesn't get as much lift but in NO WAY looks like the real thing. Why is it in the sportsman classes they limit the way a hull can be cut out? But in scale IMPBA the guy cuts out half the back end adds over 1" 1/2 of rear shoes that look nothing like the real boat it is okay? Doug got ripped years ago because he ran his Winston Eagle with out the rear horizontal wing. He was told it was not the way the boat raced. However it set a world record 170 in Detroit running the boat that way. He put his wing back on. So I guess it is all in who you are then. One word look it up maybe it will clear it up for you. Integrity

1/8 scale has become just another class to run.

That is the end of my horse he has become glue so I am going to go and put on my rear shoes now.

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Thank you Greg Hahn!!! Every race for nearly every boat has modifications to the hull and decals for that matter! I built that boat to test my new wrap. I had 9 high resolution pics as well as their graphic rendering of the boat which had a swim platform on it. Every pic I had had the wing hiding that particular area. The inset is the same.

THE BOAT WAS BUILT ACCORDING TO IMPBA RULES AND WAS BUILT AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO SPEC. Not all of us can drive to the west coast and put our tape measure on the real boat so we can brag about how we are perfect! or spend 5 years building that "perfect" replica. Some of us just want to build a cool looking boat and RACE IT!

If there are accurate measurements posted of this boat by the builder or owner I will gladly make the proper modifications but if somebody says out of the blue that they sleep with the real boat every night and the inset is 2.657' deep with a 6.1234" rear shoe then I will respectfully refer them to the rule book.

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Wes, the scale rules for IMPBA states your boat is legal. But, the reason it was looked at is the after plane is long and your boat has a swim deck. The boat you made yours off of was a back up hull leased from Fred Leland Not the boat that hit the wall in Detroit. It does not have a swim deck and the rear shoes are much shorter. The hole back end of your boat is wrong. Look at the very picture you used for your scale.

http://cdenslow.smug...014513603_q7MJY

Whats it matter Wes race your boat and have fun. Play station looks better all the time to me. Call of duty anyone?

Check this out http://cdenslow.smugmug.com/Unlimited-Hydroplanes/2010-Season-UH/2010-San-Diego-Friday/13828162_yZSsw#1014734270_BLaS8

pic 154 clearly shows an inset hull with rear shoes! I can not see how a "swim platform" would inhance the boats performance. The bottom of the boat is the same.

 

[SayMikey]

I think that the IMPBA should adopt the NAMBA rules so that it is equal across the board. How would anyone feel if say they went out west to the NW scale championship and there boat was legal in IMPBA L x W but they found it Illegal because they use different rules. It is not that hard I have been building scales for over (holly crap!) 20 years and never had a problem meeting the rules or looking like the real boat. Integrity that is all I am saying.

Don those guys are a great bunch,I sent a pic of my boat and had no problems. The NorthWest Scale Champs is a UNW race not a RCU race..

 

[Don Ferrette]

So if I glue some rear shoes on my 1985 7-11 because the top of the boat looks right that would be okay according to the new rules. I would do it because they help the boat handle better all of you say that is okay right? Don where does it say in the rules I can not do that? Looks right, I painted it right, so I am good to go?

All of you have missed the point it is not about the fine line scale appearance, it is about adding performance enhancements that the real boat did not run or come close to running. How about 3 pounds of lead weights glued to the top of a deck and painted over. Or cutting the front bow blocks far back so the boat doesn't get as much lift but in NO WAY looks like the real thing. Why is it in the sportsman classes they limit the way a hull can be cut out? But in scale IMPBA the guy cuts out half the back end adds over 1" 1/2 of rear shoes that look nothing like the real boat it is okay? Doug got ripped years ago because he ran his Winston Eagle with out the rear horizontal wing. He was told it was not the way the boat raced. However it set a world record 170 in Detroit running the boat that way. He put his wing back on. So I guess it is all in who you are then. One word look it up maybe it will clear it up for you. Integrity

1/8 scale has become just another class to run.

That is the end of my horse he has become glue so I am going to go and put on my rear shoes now.

I'm not trying to get into some great debate here but what is not clear about-

All models must be of a real unlimited hydroplane as listed in the APBA Master Hull Roster list. The

model owner must show the real boat attempted to qualify, qualified or raced in an actual sanctioned

racing event, in the configuration being modeled, via photographic and/or written documentation.

Failure to adequately meet the validation requirements can result in the model not being allowed to

compete in an IMPBA event until proper documentation is obtained.

If you hang shoes on a boat or cut the bow blocks back or whatever you need to have a pic of the real one running that way at a sanctioned event especially if there's a chance someone will question your boat.

 

[Bigbird]

So I can cut a piece of plywood to the right width and length, slap a set of miss Madison decals on it and run scale if I can find a picture that looks like it. Does anyone else find this disturbing.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

BB, I think they call that Sport 60 in NAMBA

 

[SayMikey]

Agreed

 

[Bigbird]

I agree it's beating a dead horse. But it is a debate between scale model boaters and scale racers. There is to much left to interpretation in the rules.

 

[shann harrison]

I agree Mike,But strongly agree with Don F.But I was hopeing there would be some kinda discussion about paint.Which is where my problems begin.All my boats are modeled right and correct to a certain hull concerning cowls wings ect.But my problem comes with paint.which is why I was sitting back cause of certain persons not naming names but I have been told point blank.K heres one example My 93 Cicus finished ran its first race in london Ontario was very proud of the way it turned out.person comes up cuts my boat to no return and says and I quote.That boat shouldnt be even in the scale class due to the pinks are not the same shade as the real boat.end quote.This has not been the first time.with any of my boats the other was my 92 Coors Dry boat cause there was never blue letters as my were in the words Dry.they where teal I was told.So thats where my problems began.Thats why I asked how scale is scale.Thats what really needs to be expained as far as this goes.But Thanks Don you summed it up.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

What's almost funny about the Circus boats is that there are many who say what is correct and what isn't. I've even been told that the "formulas" listed in the Dumas kit instructions that were supposedly supplied to Dumas by Dave Villwock when he was the crew chief are wrong. Even if you could find a piece of a tail fairing or hatch covers from the boat with the actual paints, there's bound to be someone out there that will swear the colors are wrong because they know what the right colors actually are.

 

[Mike McKnight]

I agree it's a dead horse and the reason it's still taking a pounding is that a lot of these issues have never been fixed. There is too much left to interpretation. Shann in your particular case the guy was wrong for doing that. You should have told him to some up with paint codes if he's such and expert. In your cases both of those issues are mainly a concourse issue. The main thrust of this thread is to deal with actual structural issues that may be a performance enhancement. Shades of paint, incorrect decals and such fall in to the concourse arena but there are far too many actual structural issues that are either not addressed or just plain ignored. If more builders researched the boat they want to build a little more maybe we wouldn't have this discussion. But the fact of the matter is that we still have boats running or attempting to be run that have flagrant structural issues that do not resemble the real boats.

 

[Gale54]

So if I glue some rear shoes on my 1985 7-11 because the top of the boat looks right that would be okay according to the new rules. I would do it because they help the boat handle better all of you say that is okay right? Don where does it say in the rules I can not do that? Looks right, I painted it right, so I am good to go?

All of you have missed the point it is not about the fine line scale appearance, it is about adding performance enhancements that the real boat did not run or come close to running. How about 3 pounds of lead weights glued to the top of a deck and painted over. Or cutting the front bow blocks far back so the boat doesn't get as much lift but in NO WAY looks like the real thing. Why is it in the sportsman classes they limit the way a hull can be cut out? But in scale IMPBA the guy cuts out half the back end adds over 1" 1/2 of rear shoes that look nothing like the real boat it is okay? Doug got ripped years ago because he ran his Winston Eagle with out the rear horizontal wing. He was told it was not the way the boat raced. However it set a world record 170 in Detroit running the boat that way. He put his wing back on. So I guess it is all in who you are then. One word look it up maybe it will clear it up for you. Integrity

1/8 scale has become just another class to run.

That is the end of my horse he has become glue so I am going to go and put on my rear shoes now.

I'm not trying to get into some great debate here but what is not clear about-

All models must be of a real unlimited hydroplane as listed in the APBA Master Hull Roster list. The

model owner must show the real boat attempted to qualify, qualified or raced in an actual sanctioned

racing event, in the configuration being modeled, via photographic and/or written documentation.

Failure to adequately meet the validation requirements can result in the model not being allowed to

compete in an IMPBA event until proper documentation is obtained.

If you hang shoes on a boat or cut the bow blocks back or whatever you need to have a pic of the real one running that way at a sanctioned event especially if there's a chance someone will question your boat.

Then Don If I can not run rear shoes because I do not have a picture of them but we have a picture of the dagree boat with much shorter rear shoes and NO swim deck and we let that boat race in a national event then you just contradicted yourself and the rules.

 

[Bigbird]

I applaud IMPBA for all the hard work that the orginization does. Having said that, I think a revamp of the rule book is in order. I would like to make a motion that a commettee be assembled to look and all of the current classes running in our IMPBA districts and make a rule book that makes sense. Scale rules: open to interpretation, Thunderboat rules: nonexistant as far as I can see, Jersey Skiff: probably falls under another class but doesn't make sense. Thunderboat is the fastest growing class in our area, I think it deserves it's on rules. If the classes were printed out in black and white, this thread would not have to be here.

Or is this another bucket of worms...???

BB