FE P-Limited Rules NAMBA and IMPBA and best choices!

[HTV Boats]

Having a national rules structure with a 36X60 size limit might encourage manufacturers of RTR to use motors that fit in rather than the boating community pandering to them. As was stated the bottom line is their priority not racing classes.

Mic

 

[T.S.Davis]

I think we came up with a fudge number of 36.3 x 61. something or another. Opens up the door to a ton of motors.

 

[Darin Jordan]

36.3 x 61.2 fits all the existing P-LTD motors. None of them are 36.0mm.

 

[RonShaw]

To make it easier to tech, why dont we start with 36.5 x 61.5 as the limits?

 

[Darin Jordan]

To make it easier to tech, why dont we start with 36.5 x 61.5 as the limits?

You have to be careful with dimensions. 36.3 x 61.2mm encompasses all the present P-LTD motors, plus every current conceivable motor that may want to be allowed. If you go a tick larger, you start including "feared" motors.

 

[RaceMechaniX]

I like "feared" motors and 500A ESC's!

 

[HTV Boats]

What Darin said. I use 36X60 to round down and Ron was rounding up. Give Darin the call as he has researched more than the rest of us. Find a new name like P36 to define it from existing "spec' or "limited".

One parameter tech again keeps it simple. We had a local class years ago with only magic mufflers and a weight minimum to level things. It worked but even getting boats on a scale at the end of a heat made work for officials trying to keep heats going. Visual by officials or competitors will take its course 99% of the time. Having a simple protest fee say $20 to force a measurement will keep it sensible.

Mic

 

[RonShaw]

To make it easier to tech, why dont we start with 36.5 x 61.5 as the limits?

You have to be careful with dimensions. 36.3 x 61.2mm encompasses all the present P-LTD motors, plus every current conceivable motor that may want to be allowed. If you go a tick larger, you start including "feared" motors.

Ok. Thanks Darin. Trying to get down to 1/10mm makes it tougher to tech. Was hoping even or 1/2mm would be possible, but sounds like its not. Just curious, how is the current NAMBA rule written? Is it by size or specific allowed motors?

 

[RonShaw]

What Darin said. I use 36X60 to round down and Ron was rounding up. Give Darin the call as he has researched more than the rest of us. Find a new name like P36 to define it from existing "spec' or "limited".

One parameter tech again keeps it simple. We had a local class years ago with only magic mufflers and a weight minimum to level things. It worked but even getting boats on a scale at the end of a heat made work for officials trying to keep heats going. Visual by officials or competitors will take its course 99% of the time. Having a simple protest fee say $20 to force a measurement will keep it sensible.

Mic

I agree Mic, plus making it easy to tech while mounted on the lower unit and cooling jacket installed would help as well. National NAMBA events tear down the top three winners so they could do the same for the P-Limited if suspicion of re-wiring has taken place.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Ron I gotta ask.......... what is this sudden obsession with creating P-limited national rules for IMPBA especially when you are primarily a "fuelie" guy??

 

[HOTWATER]

Ron I gotta ask.......... what is this sudden obsession with creating P-limited national rules for IMPBA especially when you are primarily a "fuelie" guy??

I have to say that I was wondering the same thing...

 

[Kris Flynn]

He is an outboarder...we like to cause trouble...you guys should know that!

 

[RonShaw]

Ron I gotta ask.......... what is this sudden obsession with creating P-limited national rules for IMPBA especially when you are primarily a "fuelie" guy??

Don, great question. Just trying to help with creating a few more "starter" classes to get new people in our hobby. Simple is good when you are just starting out. Been reading several threads about the lack of new boaters. I know the B Stock Tunnel class was a huge success and these P limited classes will be as well if set rules are in place. New people in our hobby eventually brings more "fuelie" guys as they gain experience and find out like the rest of us how much they like the smell of nitro!!!!

 

[Grimracer]

FE racing in in general is a tricky place to get started OR.. expect it to be a starter class.

A nitro motor will quit. A FE motor will let the smoke out.. and its NEVER their fault.

Cost is a bust in my opinion.. they are both costly..

never the less we as a group have to try things to get new folks involved. Keep rolling Ron!

Grim

 

[T.S.Davis]

.. and its NEVER their fault.
That's awesome Mike. You would know better than most. You've heard it ALL.

I'm always amazed by the new guys running their boats for 6 or 8 minutes. When all the electronics come back in a puddle at the bottom of the boat they're annoyed by this piece of crap. Or they put a pair of 3s3k's series in their Lucas cuz they had them lay'n around. The boat explodes on re-entry into earths atmosphere and that's due to "poor construction". ugh.

My thinking on the new boater thing is that RTR FE's are the shortest path to actual racing. Cost to actually race is high any route you go but with FE you get guys that run cars. They don't always understand FE but they think they do. "Hey, I know everything about batteries. I'll go electric" They see it on the shelf and buy it. Not too many fossil powered boats that you can buy Wednesday, race on Sunday, and finish on the same lap as the fast guys. Even if they don't find organized racing, what is it Waters always says.........."The first race happened when the second guy showed up." Think he also said the first rule was written by the loser.

An observation about FE racers. I'm not sure about the other fuels but FE guys seem to be very absolute. If something doesn't go our way it's permanent with us. Maybe we weren't hugged enough as children. I don't know. If something doesn't go our way (a rule, a call, the weather) we immediately move to "I'm absolutely never going to attend...........(a NAMBA event, an IMPBA event, the Can Am, a Cup race).

I did it with the CanAm. Had a bad experience and held the hosts responsible. Wasn't their fault and wasn't fair on my part. Took years for me to build a bridge and get over it. Childish. We had a guy from Florida that had a bad experience at a Michigan Cup. The guys that let it happen haven't been MMEU members in 10 years. Took 15 years and pitting next to him in Atlanta to talk him into giving us another chance.

Cut it out FE! Grudges hurt our itsy bitsy group of lunatics. Racers are a tiny percentage of the hobby. Divide that further into the three fuel types and it gets even smaller. Now turn your back on part of your particular fuel type because your pissed off? It's not good for the hobby we love.

Off my soap box. Sorry guys.

 

[lohring]

The Super Vee 27 and UL-1 were our club's introduction to electrics. These were mostly experienced nitro and gas racers, but they needed a safe, controlled place to start. These classes evolved into the P limited classes and again the limits kept people from melting equipment. Today we are attracting car racers that are very good drivers and are experienced with electrics. Boats are a little different, but they are racers and are accustomed to the costs of racing. Again, the P limited classes fit their existing equipment and are a great place to start boat racing.

Lohring Miller

 

[HTV Boats]

The Outboard and FE forums have been dead for a while so I consider all the attention to this discussion a positive. For IMPBA members who have nothing formal in the rule book to agree and possibly adopt a simple 36.3 X 61.2mm motor class seems reasonable to propose and vote on. My question is to the NAMBA powers to be, would this be considered on that side. Or might we have peace in the mid-east before we see a common national class? Again thanks to all who have participated pro or con.

Mic

 

[RonShaw]

The Super Vee 27 and UL-1 were our club's introduction to electrics. These were mostly experienced nitro and gas racers, but they needed a safe, controlled place to start. These classes evolved into the P limited classes and again the limits kept people from melting equipment. Today we are attracting car racers that are very good drivers and are experienced with electrics. Boats are a little different, but they are racers and are accustomed to the costs of racing. Again, the P limited classes fit their existing equipment and are a great place to start boat racing.

Lohring Miller

Lohring,

I agree as well. Its a great place to start boating and although probably just as expensive initially as the similar 21 size class, the learning curve, support equipment, and accessories are much less. If we grow FE beginners, we grow IMPBA and NAMBA future nitro and gas members long term. Even if they stay in FE classes, it grow our hobby as a whole.

 

[RonShaw]

The Outboard and FE forums have been dead for a while so I consider all the attention to this discussion a positive. For IMPBA members who have nothing formal in the rule book to agree and possibly adopt a simple 36.3 X 61.2mm motor class seems reasonable to propose and vote on. My question is to the NAMBA powers to be, would this be considered on that side. Or might we have peace in the mid-east before we see a common national class? Again thanks to all who have participated pro or con.

Mic

Absolutely Mic. I too welcome all respectful feedback positive and negative, so we can figure this initial proposal out and get it to the board for initial approval. I am sure anything positive to help grow our hobby as a whole will be well received by the Boards of both organizations.

 

[RonShaw]

FE racing in in general is a tricky place to get started OR.. expect it to be a starter class.

A nitro motor will quit. A FE motor will let the smoke out.. and its NEVER their fault.

Cost is a bust in my opinion.. they are both costly..

never the less we as a group have to try things to get new folks involved. Keep rolling Ron!

Grim

Thanks Grim. If we can grow the hobby we all win.