Cmb 45RS with Cooper QFE pipe

[harvknox]

Have any of you guys north of me run this combination in the winter at about freezing tempertures.

Here's what I've got:

AC sport 40

CMB 45 RS with good compression,bearings,intake valve,MC-9 plug

X 450 3 blade

50% Red Max

Cooper QFE pipe

Violet 3rd channel needle

We are running on a TVA lake inlet away from power plants and dams.

I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems.

Engine would start normally with a wide range of needle settings.Head did not warm up to the touch very much.

When we thru it in,it would go half lap and die,no matter what the needle setting was.

We tried going to 65% and propping down to an X 450 2 blade,but no change.

One of the other guys freezing his tail off was running a Seaducer with the same engine and prop combination,except a Mac pipe with no muffler.Ran fine.

Jose Ortiz had his flow meter with him.We set my carb approx equal to the Seaducer,still half lap on my boat then dieing.I realize with nomal conditions flow would be different between setups,but this would be a ballpark setting.

My question after all this,could the QFE pipe be the culprit?

I spent more time in the retrieve boat then running the sport 40.No fun.

Harvey Liberman

 

[Duck899]

Have any of you guys north of me run this combination in the winter at about freezing tempertures.Here's what I've got:

AC sport 40

CMB 45 RS with good compression,bearings,intake valve,MC-9 plug

X 450 3 blade

50% Red Max

Cooper QFE pipe

Violet 3rd channel needle

We are running on a TVA lake inlet away from power plants and dams.

I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems.

Engine would start normally with a wide range of needle settings.Head did not warm up to the touch very much.

When we thru it in,it would go half lap and die,no matter what the needle setting was.

We tried going to 65% and propping down to an X 450 2 blade,but no change.

One of the other guys freezing his tail off was running a Seaducer with the same engine and prop combination,except a Mac pipe with no muffler.Ran fine.

Jose Ortiz had his flow meter with him.We set my carb approx equal to the Seaducer,still half lap on my boat then dieing.I realize with nomal conditions flow would be different between setups,but this would be a ballpark setting.

My question after all this,could the QFE pipe be the culprit?

I spent more time in the retrieve boat then running the sport 40.No fun.

Harvey Liberman

If it dies no matter what the needle setting, then it sounds like a bad bearing to me.....or some kind of air leak in the fuel system. I suppose you could pinch the water line with a tie wrap to reduce the cooling water? I use an inline needle valve on the water line which works well. I've also tried the cooper pipe on my RS and it did not make the power that the Mac 10cc airplane unmuffled pipe does.....

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

I think that check your crankshaft' pin may loose or broke also any O rings leak or crack for water jacket , front& Rear bearing housings ? Will you look to clue open engine?

 

[carlnoki]

Sounds like time for new bearings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

carl

 

[SayMikey]

Sounds like time for new bearings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
carl

Harv sounds like the disc is outa wack or pickup has rotted off in the tank. That RS is a maintenance HOG

 

[John Knight]

Sounds like time for new bearings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
carl

Absolutely!!

 

[Mark Bullard]

Have any of you guys north of me run this combination in the winter at about freezing tempertures.Here's what I've got:

AC sport 40

CMB 45 RS with good compression,bearings,intake valve,MC-9 plug

X 450 3 blade

50% Red Max

Cooper QFE pipe

Violet 3rd channel needle

We are running on a TVA lake inlet away from power plants and dams.

I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems.

Engine would start normally with a wide range of needle settings.Head did not warm up to the touch very much.

When we thru it in,it would go half lap and die,no matter what the needle setting was.

We tried going to 65% and propping down to an X 450 2 blade,but no change.

One of the other guys freezing his tail off was running a Seaducer with the same engine and prop combination,except a Mac pipe with no muffler.Ran fine.

Jose Ortiz had his flow meter with him.We set my carb approx equal to the Seaducer,still half lap on my boat then dieing.I realize with nomal conditions flow would be different between setups,but this would be a ballpark setting.

My question after all this,could the QFE pipe be the culprit?

I spent more time in the retrieve boat then running the sport 40.No fun.

Harvey Liberman

Hi Harvey,

I think that the pipe is on the borderline of being able to allow the exhaust gas out in normal running conditions. As the temps have been very low this past few weeks the air is very good, this is normal. When the motor was loaded it went lean very quick because of the restrictions of the pipe. I have not been able to run Cooper's pipes because of the restrictions but they are very nice pipes. The only way to run these pipes if you have a motor that is well tuned of good performace is to cut the nitro back and run a smaller prop. IM think you can see that this is going the wrong way.

 

[Don Ferrette]

It's not the pipe. Go back to the first post-

"I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems."

That right there tells you the pipe is fine and has been so for 3 years so the problem is elsewhere. If those bearings are 3 years old then I would change them first before doing anything else and use CMB bearings (Stu keeps them in stock). If that doesn't cure it swap out to a known good fuel tank as I've seen bad bearings or a cracked pick up tube in the tank do EXACTLY what Harvey is describing.

 

[steve wood]

water is too cold.if you can hold on to the head for more than 2 seconds it's too cold. are you running both chambers in the water jacket? if so in the top and out the bottom? try feeding water to the top only. also check the rotor clearance for no more than .004 clearance. i doubt if it's bearings, just my opinion

 

[Mark Bullard]

It's not the pipe. Go back to the first post-"I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems."

That right there tells you the pipe is fine and has been so for 3 years so the problem is elsewhere. If those bearings are 3 years old then I would change them first before doing anything else and use CMB bearings (Stu keeps them in stock). If that doesn't cure it swap out to a known good fuel tank as I've seen bad bearings or a cracked pick up tube in the tank do EXACTLY what Harvey is describing.

Don it could be the bearings but Harvey takes very good care of his motors and I would not think that the problem just popped up. He has not ran the boat at these temps before and I can see with the cooler weather the motor is making a lot of power and needs to breath.

 

[Rokieboater]

I would have to say a pin hole in the fuel or pressure line or a clog in the pressure line.

Robert Holland

 

[Don Ferrette]

It's not the pipe. Go back to the first post-"I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems."

That right there tells you the pipe is fine and has been so for 3 years so the problem is elsewhere. If those bearings are 3 years old then I would change them first before doing anything else and use CMB bearings (Stu keeps them in stock). If that doesn't cure it swap out to a known good fuel tank as I've seen bad bearings or a cracked pick up tube in the tank do EXACTLY what Harvey is describing.

Don it could be the bearings but Harvey takes very good care of his motors and I would not think that the problem just popped up. He has not ran the boat at these temps before and I can see with the cooler weather the motor is making a lot of power and needs to breath.

I know Harvey takes good care of his stuff, but even meticulously maintained 3 years is a healthy stretch on one set of bearings.

 

[harvknox]

It's not the pipe. Go back to the first post-"I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems."

That right there tells you the pipe is fine and has been so for 3 years so the problem is elsewhere. If those bearings are 3 years old then I would change them first before doing anything else and use CMB bearings (Stu keeps them in stock). If that doesn't cure it swap out to a known good fuel tank as I've seen bad bearings or a cracked pick up tube in the tank do EXACTLY what Harvey is describing.

Don it could be the bearings but Harvey takes very good care of his motors and I would not think that the problem just popped up. He has not ran the boat at these temps before and I can see with the cooler weather the motor is making a lot of power and needs to breath.

I appreciate the comments.To give you all a bit more info.Engine is 3 years old.Needle bearings went out last spring.Before the racing season started I put in new bearings and a new crank which of course included rod and needles.Engine has good compression compared to my spare 45RS,which is practically new.Head clearance is .016.Head button looks almost new(surprised me).We checked fuel lines and pressure port in pipe by blowing thru the various lines.Everything checked out after tightening one of the tank caps which had a small leak.

The one thing we did not do which one of you suggested was restrict the cooling water.I have a temperature gage,but by the time I got out to the boat,both the head and pipe were cold.To answer one question,the cooling jacket is standard with lake water into the upper fitting.

I have run this engine over 3 winters,this being the 4th.This past weekend and days preceeding were really cold for this area.Thats why I thought that temperature was a factor.

Any more thoughts?

Harvey

Harvey

 

[Piston1]

I work with the motor last weekend. The motor will not respond to the needle. I gave it at least three turns open and it did not richen up. Don you are on the correct track. The suspect problems have been mentioned. Bearings, rotor seal, tank pickup,etc. The bushing crankcase seal behind the flywheel needs to be checked also. It is essentially a "3 yr. old new engine" with "1 yr. old new bearings". That might could be the problem. B)

 

[Don Ferrette]

I work with the motor last weekend. The motor will not respond to the needle. I gave it at least three turns open and it did not richen up. Don you are on the correct track. The suspect problems have been mentioned. Bearings, rotor seal, tank pickup,etc. The bushing crankcase seal behind the flywheel needs to be checked also. It is essentially a "3 yr. old new engine" with "1 yr. old new bearings". That might could be the problem. B)

Would the guy with the Seaducer consider letting Harvey try his RS45 motor for one run? If goes good then the tank's ok, if not I'd try another tank.

 

[Andy Greene]

I work with the motor last weekend. The motor will not respond to the needle. I gave it at least three turns open and it did not richen up. Don you are on the correct track. The suspect problems have been mentioned. Bearings, rotor seal, tank pickup,etc. The bushing crankcase seal behind the flywheel needs to be checked also. It is essentially a "3 yr. old new engine" with "1 yr. old new bearings". That might could be the problem. B)

Would the guy with the Seaducer consider letting Harvey try his RS45 motor for one run? If goes good then the tank's ok, if not I'd try another tank.

Mono guys are weird that way -lol - kidding,

Hope you get it sorted out Harvey, Sounds like a tank or air leak issue , when's the last time the motor was run ??

Andy

 

[Joe Warren]

Have any of you guys north of me run this combination in the winter at about freezing tempertures.Here's what I've got:

AC sport 40

CMB 45 RS with good compression,bearings,intake valve,MC-9 plug

X 450 3 blade

50% Red Max

Cooper QFE pipe

Violet 3rd channel needle

We are running on a TVA lake inlet away from power plants and dams.

I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems.

Engine would start normally with a wide range of needle settings.Head did not warm up to the touch very much.

When we thru it in,it would go half lap and die,no matter what the needle setting was.

We tried going to 65% and propping down to an X 450 2 blade,but no change.

One of the other guys freezing his tail off was running a Seaducer with the same engine and prop combination,except a Mac pipe with no muffler.Ran fine.

Jose Ortiz had his flow meter with him.We set my carb approx equal to the Seaducer,still half lap on my boat then dieing.I realize with nomal conditions flow would be different between setups,but this would be a ballpark setting.

My question after all this,could the QFE pipe be the culprit?

I spent more time in the retrieve boat then running the sport 40.No fun.

Harvey Liberman

Boats that wont run a lap either have Fuel pressure problems or Cooling leak problems, I would change to a open nitro pipe for testing. verify the water system dont have a leak ,especially around the cooling head. I would consider that you already know the engine is correct?? Put a know good engine in the boat & test again. The problem is either in the engine or the boat. You must determine where 1st in order to fix it. also you could pull the pipe presure line off while it is running on the bank to see if there is a change??? 90 degree pipe fittings are bad to stop up. also consider the cowl is pinching a line when it is installed. also try running without the cowl. also try a diff needle assembly incase it is sucking air..... & change all known fuel lines including the pipe pressure line.

 

[mark voorhies]

Have any of you guys north of me run this combination in the winter at about freezing tempertures.Here's what I've got:

AC sport 40

CMB 45 RS with good compression,bearings,intake valve,MC-9 plug

X 450 3 blade

50% Red Max

Cooper QFE pipe

Violet 3rd channel needle

We are running on a TVA lake inlet away from power plants and dams.

I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems.

Engine would start normally with a wide range of needle settings.Head did not warm up to the touch very much.

When we thru it in,it would go half lap and die,no matter what the needle setting was.

We tried going to 65% and propping down to an X 450 2 blade,but no change.

One of the other guys freezing his tail off was running a Seaducer with the same engine and prop combination,except a Mac pipe with no muffler.Ran fine.

Jose Ortiz had his flow meter with him.We set my carb approx equal to the Seaducer,still half lap on my boat then dieing.I realize with nomal conditions flow would be different between setups,but this would be a ballpark setting.

My question after all this,could the QFE pipe be the culprit?

I spent more time in the retrieve boat then running the sport 40.No fun.

Harvey Liberman

Harvey,

I gather your runnin your 45 RS at about 32 degrees, correct. I have tried runnin mine at

higher temps , and needed a hotter plug, Mc-59 at least. I have no idea how to run one that cold.

Don't know if your QFE is the issue, I doubt it, my Viper mono 45RS, Cooper QHP, X450/3 runs very

nice, in warmer conditions.I realize this is a Sport hull and proping down from what you had was worth a try. I can tell you that uping nitro in cold weather is the wrong way to go,

just opposite. As far as a Seaducer runnin same as you have will create more heat in motor because

they have more drag with hull hook in testing conditions as compared to your AC Sport.

All the other posts for problems are possible.

 

[harvknox]

Have any of you guys north of me run this combination in the winter at about freezing tempertures.Here's what I've got:

AC sport 40

CMB 45 RS with good compression,bearings,intake valve,MC-9 plug

X 450 3 blade

50% Red Max

Cooper QFE pipe

Violet 3rd channel needle

We are running on a TVA lake inlet away from power plants and dams.

I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems.

Engine would start normally with a wide range of needle settings.Head did not warm up to the touch very much.

When we thru it in,it would go half lap and die,no matter what the needle setting was.

We tried going to 65% and propping down to an X 450 2 blade,but no change.

One of the other guys freezing his tail off was running a Seaducer with the same engine and prop combination,except a Mac pipe with no muffler.Ran fine.

Jose Ortiz had his flow meter with him.We set my carb approx equal to the Seaducer,still half lap on my boat then dieing.I realize with nomal conditions flow would be different between setups,but this would be a ballpark setting.

My question after all this,could the QFE pipe be the culprit?

I spent more time in the retrieve boat then running the sport 40.No fun.

Harvey Liberman

Harvey,

I gather your runnin your 45 RS at about 32 degrees, correct. I have tried runnin mine at

higher temps , and needed a hotter plug, Mc-59 at least. I have no idea how to run one that cold.

Don't know if your QFE is the issue, I doubt it, my Viper mono 45RS, Cooper QHP, X450/3 runs very

nice, in warmer conditions.I realize this is a Sport hull and proping down from what you had was worth a try. I can tell you that uping nitro in cold weather is the wrong way to go,

just opposite. As far as a Seaducer runnin same as you have will create more heat in motor because

they have more drag with hull hook in testing conditions as compared to your AC Sport.

All the other posts for problems are possible.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions made and any more that come in.Weather permiting,I'll post results after we run this weekend.

Harvey

 

[harvknox]

Have any of you guys north of me run this combination in the winter at about freezing tempertures.Here's what I've got:

AC sport 40

CMB 45 RS with good compression,bearings,intake valve,MC-9 plug

X 450 3 blade

50% Red Max

Cooper QFE pipe

Violet 3rd channel needle

We are running on a TVA lake inlet away from power plants and dams.

I've run this combination for 3 years with no problems.

Engine would start normally with a wide range of needle settings.Head did not warm up to the touch very much.

When we thru it in,it would go half lap and die,no matter what the needle setting was.

We tried going to 65% and propping down to an X 450 2 blade,but no change.

One of the other guys freezing his tail off was running a Seaducer with the same engine and prop combination,except a Mac pipe with no muffler.Ran fine.

Jose Ortiz had his flow meter with him.We set my carb approx equal to the Seaducer,still half lap on my boat then dieing.I realize with nomal conditions flow would be different between setups,but this would be a ballpark setting.

My question after all this,could the QFE pipe be the culprit?

I spent more time in the retrieve boat then running the sport 40.No fun.

Harvey Liberman

I said next time we run the boat I'd report what happens.

We ran boats this morning,almost as cold as two weeks ago.Jose and I discussed the problem this past week.I had disassembled the motor this past week and everything looked great inspite of Jose's remarks about my three year old engine with one year old bearings!The one thing that had not been checked was the inside of the Bob Violet needle valve.Since all the fuel and pressure lines were blown thru and seemed clear and we adjusted the needle setting with Jose's flowmeter,I did not look inside the needle at the lake.When I later took the needle valve apart,I found a small black particle on the side of the needle.It was too big to go thru the fuel filter on my fuel pump,but still small.I'm pretty sure it was a particle out of the pressure tap on the pipe that traveled thru two 8oz. tanks into the needle.

Lesson learned, just because everything seemed to check,doesn't mean it's right.Jose was almost on it when he could not adjust the needle by hand,but we could adjust it with the flowmeter.

Joe,I don't know whether the particle formed in the pipe or fitting,but it is a 90 degree fitting.

Harvey

Harvey,

I gather your runnin your 45 RS at about 32 degrees, correct. I have tried runnin mine at

higher temps , and needed a hotter plug, Mc-59 at least. I have no idea how to run one that cold.

Don't know if your QFE is the issue, I doubt it, my Viper mono 45RS, Cooper QHP, X450/3 runs very

nice, in warmer conditions.I realize this is a Sport hull and proping down from what you had was worth a try. I can tell you that uping nitro in cold weather is the wrong way to go,

just opposite. As far as a Seaducer runnin same as you have will create more heat in motor because

they have more drag with hull hook in testing conditions as compared to your AC Sport.

All the other posts for problems are possible.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions made and any more that come in.Weather permiting,I'll post results after we run this weekend.

Harvey