Clean Start Window

[Keith Halverson]

Good one. Jump the clock and it's a DNF. All Run Hard,,then review if a discrepancy might arise. Bring the racer,,or racers over to view the CSW playback if drama ensues. If Y'all jump the clock,,then all Y'all load your junk up and go home. Still,,all need to agree and SIGN on this CSW BEFORE a boat hits the water in early am first day.

 

[Tom Kelly]

Mic, which class of boats gives a DNF for starting early? I know, with the unlimited hydroplanes, that it's a one minute penalty. That is a fairly recent(within the past few years actually) change from the previous lap penalty that was used for decades

What they do now is announce that the start is under review, and show the foul flag. This gives the H1 officials time to look at the start while everyone keeps racing. After a lap or two, they will announce their decision. Although, sometimes it takes a few hours, or even a day or two.

 

[Mark Bullard]

I read in a earlier post the they could check the outcome of the start in about 25 seconds. Hate to say this but that is about 2 to 3 laps on any hydro from 20's to 90's engines. I do like the looks of the start window. It could be a good tool but the video does not work. We worked with it 1985 and 1986 Internats. Just can not get the information to the drivers in a timely manner.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

What they do now is announce that the start is under review, and show the foul flag. This gives the H1 officials time to look at the start while everyone keeps racing. After a lap or two, they will announce their decision. Although, sometimes it takes a few hours, or even a day or two.

Starts are easy. They have a camera that takes slow motion footage of the start with a light synced to the official start. If they have a question about a boat, they review the footage and make the call. Technically, they can make the call very quickly, not two laps in. They probably notify the teams first, then let us know after the fact.
As far as hours or days later, that's everything else. It can take time to review the footage on lane violations, going to slow, etc, due to the amount of footage the powers that be have to look at.

 

[Tom Foley]

Mark , if you can't complete this process of start review in 1 minute or less there is simply no time to do it . the second one heat is over the pits are filled with people waiting to hear " you're on the clock " and the drivers stand must be cleared and ready to go . when the first heat goes off at 8 AM and you are rushing all day and still running heats at dusk there is no time to accomodate argumentative start calls .

 

[Mark Bullard]

I agree Tom. Like I said you could easy get two laps in before they can review the video. But the window looks good as a tool without the video.

Mark , if you can't complete this process of start review in 1 minute or less there is simply no time to do it . the second one heat is over the pits are filled with people waiting to hear " you're on the clock " and the drivers stand must be cleared and ready to go . when the first heat goes off at 8 AM and you are rushing all day and still running heats at dusk there is no time to accomodate argumentative start calls .

 

[Walt Barney]

I agree Tom. Like I said you could easy get two laps in before they can review the video. But the window looks good as a tool without the video.

I would like to try this, I have been called over and have not argued,
as My eyes are on the boat picking up speed and I cannot watch the start line and my boat at the same time, as of late most know that I hang back on the start just so I don't jump, and get in the mix up on the 1st buoy where most boats get watered or roll over unless you are the 1st boat down the course
Walt Barney

 

[Tom Kelly]

Starts are easy. They have a camera that takes slow motion footage of the start with a light synced to the official start. If they have a question about a boat, they review the footage and make the call. Technically, they can make the call very quickly, not two laps in. They probably notify the teams first, then let us know after the fact.
As far as hours or days later, that's everything else. It can take time to review the footage on lane violations, going to slow, etc, due to the amount of footage the powers that be have to look at.

I don't about quickly. Take a look at the San Diego race a couple of weeks ago. Bert Henderson nailed the start, the announcers said "good start" throughout the race, and then after the race, they decided Bert was over. Even at the highest level of boat racing, they still can't get it right.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

I don't about quickly. Take a look at the San Diego race a couple of weeks ago. Bert Henderson nailed the start, the announcers said "good start" throughout the race, and then after the race, they decided Bert was over. Even at the highest level of boat racing, they still can't get it right.

IIRC, someone protested the start. That made a full review of the footage necessary, adding time to the process

 

[MarkF]

It seems to me it takes less time to review the start Pic, show the driver the pic, and be done with it. Now we just listen to an angry driver yelling he wasn't over. Then you get his friends coming over to talk about it, now your listening to 3 different people ***** the guy wasn't over. Now your trying to explain yourself to everybody why your call is good and more time is passing buy. The start window seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[Brad Christy]

Mark,

Bingo. The camera naps a pic at the strobe on the clock, showing the instant the race starts, with the CSW line in the pic. Whoever is calling the start isn't even looking at the course, but rather the laptop with the pic that instantly pops up on the screen. He/she either says "good start", or "yellow boat is over". And that's that. We all already agree that the CD's call is final. With this simple addition, the racers know the call is good, and there's logged evidence in the event someone feels the need to contest the call after the fact. I still can't understand the resistance to something so simple and foolproof.

 

[JimZaremski]

I still can't understand the resistance to something so simple and foolproof.

the resistance is because you’re acting like it should be no big deal for clubs to spend a not insignificant amount of money to solve a “problem” which really hasn’t been a problem in the 50+ years people have been racing R/C boats. We’re grown-ass men playing with toy boats. If you’re going to be a baby and pitch a hissy fit because the mean old CD called you over at the start, then you’re the problem.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Jim, as has been said already by more than one in this thread:
1) Tech has changed
2) Speeds are greater than any time in history
3) What has worked well no longer does
This isn't a huge deal, just something to make it easier on the CD and corner judges. When I consider the abuse I've taken due to someone not liking a call, including being physically hit over a call I didn't make, I see where things need to change, even if it's one small step at a time

 

[Brad Christy]

Jim,

There's a laptop on the judging stand at nearly every single race. All a club has to invest in is a cheap GoPro knock-off and a simple cord to relay the pic to that laptop. It's a one-time <$50 investment.

Yes, we are grown men playing with toy boats. And many of them take their passion seriously enough to want to know they are playing according to fair judging. They only throw hissy fits when they genuinely feel they have been judged unfairly or when they feel their hissy fit will help them get away with stretching the rules. This simple fix keeps everybody honest, as well as eliminates the notion that the judging might be in error. That guy who would normally throw a hissy fit DOESN'T because he knows the call was accurate. This wouldn't help resolving contested calls. It would eliminate them altogether. It's just that simple.

I can't think of even that first time I've contested being called over on a start. But that's not to say I haven't felt like I was wrongly called over. In all honesty, if a system like this was in place, I wouldn't even give the call a second thought. Period.

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BlackJack Hydros
Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[henry velasco]

One huge point that has not been stated --- now many heats are going to be contested
If I remember correctly at the dist. 19 race there were 5 heats out of 70 heats --- big deal right geeeeez guys , step up

Henry

 

[JimZaremski]

There's a laptop on the judging stand at nearly every single race.

O RLY? The only race in my district this year with one was Celina.

 

[Bill Britton]

Iv'e been watching this thread for awhile. I'm not sure many of you are/were aware, but the rcRacingEvents scoring application had this feature from 2010 - 2016. If you used the internal clock in the scoring application and had an HD usb camera installed, there was a window that popped up right before the start and snapped a picture at 0(start) for the CD to review. Most of the feedback I received was that the CD had no time to review the start window, and that it was just something else to distract them. I removed the feature in late 2016 because as far as I could tell in the uploaded diagnostic logs, no one was using it and had that feature turned off.

Not saying it's good or bad. I thought it was a good idea and added it. But not many people used it. Just my observation on the subject.

 

[Brad Christy]

Bill,

The CDs had no time to do their job? Too distracted watching the race to properly judge the start, is more like it.

 

[Grimracer]

Lets face it.. in the end if we (my club for instance) would be adding technology where its really not needed.

If faced with a choice.. I would pass.

The window is fine.. adding a cheap cam and lap top, as Brad suggested.. nope.. not me

Grim

 

[Tom Foley]

Don't start hating on CD's , half the time we are lucky to have them . They take a lot of heat up there on the stand so don't scare them away .