Clean Start Window

Discussion in 'General RC Boating Forum' started by the german, Aug 27, 2019.

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  1. Aug 27, 2019 #1

    the german

    the german

    the german

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    Hi guy's
    I want to share an awesome idea from the R.C. Sharks Racing Team who held the NAMBA District 19 race last weekend.


    The Sharks exclusive "Clean Start Window" made it's debut..!!

    At first, it was met with both skepticism and anticipation, however, by the end of the weekend, it proved itself to be a valuable asset to the CD calling the starts..!!

    The "window" provided a true straight line across the water aligned with the start buoy and this made calling the starts much easier..!! Along with the high visibility aspect of the glass, we also recorded each and every start and this afforded both the CD and the competitors a "Real Time" replay of the starts along with sound.

    In the first round, many asked to review the videos and by the third round, everyone grew to trust the start calls as not ONE call was bad. The video provided the best view of the starts. Having a true line across the water, versus an imaginary line from a drivers perspective showed how angles can deceive racers.

    Some thought some racers jumped, but after review, they learned that "their" angles deceived their perspectives.

    The "Clean Start Window" passed its initial live race test and there is room for improvements..!!

    "Quote Rey Garcia/Facebook"



    Alex IMG_4606.JPG
     
  2. Aug 27, 2019 #2

    Brian Sorgente

    Brian Sorgente

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    Great idea.
     
  3. Aug 27, 2019 #3

    dr gary turner

    dr gary turner

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    Looks promising
     
  4. Aug 27, 2019 #4

    Tony Jacuzzi

    Tony Jacuzzi

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    Great idea love the video idea
     
  5. Aug 28, 2019 #5

    Kris Flynn

    Kris Flynn

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    fantastic idea which should be adopted by everyone to avoid the confusion as you have described.

    great job!
     
  6. Aug 29, 2019 #6

    the german

    the german

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    start1.jpg start2.jpg Here are 2 pics of a start.
    The first picture shows the start of the buzzer and the second one was taken when the buzzer went off.
     
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  7. Aug 30, 2019 #7

    Grimracer

    Grimracer

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    I wonder if you could make the line wider to accommodate the dwell time of the buzzer.

    Grim
     
  8. Sep 1, 2019 #8

    HTV Boats

    HTV Boats

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    I do not see how dwell time can be factored in. It is either the micro second you first hear the tone or do you judge when the tone dies? If the tone dwells say .05 if a second that's 5% distance over time. As slow as 30 mph is that's 44 ft/second and 5% is over 2 feet of movement. increase speed and dwell can be 3-5 feet. A line needs to be a line not a swath.
    I do like the photo recording and definition of the line. On the first photo the lead boat is touching the line and not behind the line. Is he over? From what I understand you have to be behind the line.
    Starting line judging and consistency is the essence of fair competition to me. A lot of sports are using technology to assist judgment these days so why not model boat racing.
    Mic
     
  9. Sep 1, 2019 #9

    P THOMAS

    P THOMAS

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    Isnt the redyellow line the start line? and the fair start would be judged at the start of the buzzer or flash or 0 not the end of such buzzer. I can see this a good help for start judging with or with out a camera, should be easy for a club to setup on the judge stand.
     
  10. Sep 1, 2019 #10

    Don Ferrette

    Don Ferrette

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    Dwell time of the buzzer?? Not even a factor as the buzzer BEGINS sounding at zero so the buzzers duration is completely irrelevant. Charleston had a killer system that took a pic of the start line triggered by the strobe circuit of the digital clock and the image came up on the laptop on the CD table. I was helping with the CD duties so I got to see it in action and it was dead nut on the money yet people would ***** up a storm saying they weren't over, that it wasn't accurate, blah, blah, blah. Yeah right..............
     
  11. Sep 1, 2019 #11

    dave roach

    dave roach

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    In my book pictures don't lie
     
  12. Sep 1, 2019 #12

    dave roach

    dave roach

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    In my book pictures don't lie
     
  13. Sep 1, 2019 #13

    Tom Foley

    Tom Foley

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    Great system , some people will never just go with the call . It is THE CALL so shut up and race !!!
     
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  14. Sep 2, 2019 #14

    Andy Greene

    Andy Greene

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    Is that the one Britton was working with Don ? At one point Bill had one we where using in Brandon and maybe Riverview , the biggest issue I saw was , by the time you look at the pic and make the "over" call , in most fast classes they are already on the back stretch mixing it up. The only true way would be a timing loop and we have been down that road before.
     
  15. Sep 2, 2019 #15

    Grimracer

    Grimracer

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    agree don..
     
  16. Sep 2, 2019 #16

    Don Ferrette

    Don Ferrette

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    Dude I've been at races, big races, where guys didn't know they were over til the end of a heat!! Technically you're supposed to make the call within the first lap so even if you're going up the back chute you were still over. And based on experience with timing loops in the past it's no faster than the picture method, you still waited for the data. The Charleston system worked great, they just got tired of all the crybaby crap from those who thought their "eyesight" was more accurate than a camera tied to the clock timing. Sorry folks you're NOT that good.......... :D
     
  17. Sep 2, 2019 #17

    Shark

    Shark

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    My "Clean Start Window" brought a new level of accuracy to our starts here in District 19.. In the glass, you see a White line ( the actual start line) and to the left a yellow and red line (reference lines)

    The reason for the reference lines is for OPTICS when calling a start.. For the purpose of this race, we BETA tested the Window to see if it could make a real difference in calling the starts... After two days of live race testing, it worked better than expected..

    Using a cell phone to record each start of each heat helped to memorialize the starts in case there was a dispute. Of course, nobody thinks they "jumped" the start and everybody thinks everyone else "jumped" the start... (LOL)

    On the first day of racing, we had several requests to view the replay of the starts...

    Racers were surprised to see the accuracy of the calls, despite feeling that some boats jumped the start before seeing the recording.

    The optics of the window provide a solid white line on the start and when you are looking through the glass, it appears that a white line is actually on the water. You can see the entire front stretch regardless of lanes.

    Now, for the purpose of testing, we used the white line for judging a boat when the sound of the buzzer initiated .... the reference lines makes this call much easier to make. Connecting the eyes to the sound on a reference line makes the start much easier to judge.

    In two days of racing, we called less than 8 jump starts. Racers really respected the line knowing that the CD had a clear birds eye view of the start.

    In the past, starts were always something of a challenge and this has led to some heated moments, however, at our race, we only had one of these exchanges and after reviewing the recording, the proof was in the pudding sortofspeak...

    The camera was only used for review purposes and not for making any calls or changing any calls.

    The camera can also be used to record "CLOSE FINISHES"....to determine a winner in a tight race.

    There is always room for improvement, and we are working to reduce the size of the white lines and move the reference lines slightly closer to the white line.

    All in all, it brings some new innovation to racing!
     
  18. Sep 2, 2019 #18

    Mike Hughes

    Mike Hughes

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    I am not sure who you are Shark. One of the rules of this site is to have your name in each post. You need to change your login or jsut put your name in the signature.
     
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  19. Sep 3, 2019 #19

    HTV Boats

    HTV Boats

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    Any assist for accuracy is helpful. As Don said people will argue their view right or wrong and Tom yes take the judgment and move on. It does suck when you know you pushed it and are willing to accept the penalty hear, "all good" and another boat was ten feet ahead of you.
    What might be good is the CD or line judge alone review starts. If he finds he is too loose he may tighten up a bit. Also the CD might benefit having a corner judge or a dedicated start judge so he can watch the starting chute and clean up some lane violations there.
    Mic
     
  20. Sep 3, 2019 #20

    Grimracer

    Grimracer

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    I call em at the horn.. to the right of the line.. your on it you are over.. they know this in the drivers meeting..

    They can ***** and moan.. I dont care..

    The window and the cams are nice but SO NOT NEEDED.. and if it takes time to make the call confusion builds.

    Grim
     
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