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Ronald Van Wagnen

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Joined
May 3, 2011
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109
Certainly can be attributed to this crap load of classes. This is one of the first times in quite a while I have seen all IMPBA classes listed together. The "E" classes aren't even in this list !!

This is amazing to see since I left in early 2000.

You would need hundreds of drivers to fill all these and make a good event that did not last a week.

Off my soapbox now and wiggling into my flameproof undies !

Inactive Ron
 
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Not all classes are always offered. Most run what is popular in the area they race. Even if they are offered and not enough are entered then those classes are dropped. I'm not sure what you mean.
 
I agree Ron. The D hydro boats are my favorite to run and there is rarely more than 4 boats at the races I attend. Scale and sport 40 are still popular around here though.
 
I know what he's talking about. The classes are so diluted that it's **** near impossible to get a decent turnout at a race these days. With the economy sucking on both sides of the border and less and less people being able to afford to travel. Wouldn't it be in our best interest to streamline rather than add more classes all the time? One district/area might be big into scale and sport .40 while the one next door supports gas mono and thunderboat. Will they get together? Probs not.

I believe true competition is all about numbers. Not 2 and 3 boat heats, but 6-7 and multiple heats of each class. How exciting is it to win a class with 25 plus boats in it? One of the best races I ever attended was the Tech Center race in Michigan where it was Scale and Sp .40 only. 20 plus boats in each class. 5 rounds in one day. Bang, bang, bang, 10 heats in 8 hours and you're on the road. That was fun!

Not to try to compare totally but on and off-road cars offer 2-3 classes max and you get to run all day long. Compared to boat racing at a big event, where if you have a couple of boats you run twice a day. That's a lot of time between heats if you ask me.

I believe these are the reasons people pick and choose the races they attend. Most go for less racing at a higher level. More "bang for their buck" basically. Just an observation...

Ron
 
You guys complaining need to stop living in the past. Much has changed beyond a bunch of new classes and things are not and NEVER will be what they once were. I focus on FUN now and in doing so will pick the races that give me the most for my time there and certainly don't spend up to 14 hours driving one way just for the hell of it. Granted I'll race it like I stole it whenever my stuff is in the water but there's more to it when it comes to attending events. Even if you were to run let's say 4 classes and did 3 rounds in one day that's not even an hour of actual time on the race course for the entire day. I want my fun meter pegged on and off the water and adopting that approach has made things far more enjoyable in recent years. And BTW I do find it interesting that this grumble thread was started by someone who hasn't raced in years........
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Like I said Don. "Just an observation". Not trying to piss and moan about anything. For me, an hour on the race course running the best of the best pegs my fun meter far more than time off the water. 14 hrs to spend 10 minutes on the water just doesn't do it for me. Just say'n.

Ron
 
You guys complaining need to stop living in the past. Much has changed beyond a bunch of new classes and things are not and NEVER will be what they once were. I focus on FUN now and in doing so will pick the races that give me the most for my time there and certainly don't spend up to 14 hours driving one way just for the hell of it. Granted I'll race it like I stole it whenever my stuff is in the water but there's more to it when it comes to attending events. Even if you were to run let's say 4 classes and did 3 rounds in one day that's not even an hour of actual time on the race course for the entire day. I want my fun meter pegged on and off the water and adopting that approach has made things far more enjoyable in recent years. And BTW I do find it interesting that this grumble thread was started by someone who hasn't raced
I'm not complaining Don but what fun is it to race against 3 guys all the time? The fact is CDs are always saying we need more entries and this is simply a conversation that needs to be had. Not everyone can take time off work and go to the big races so they have a chance to run against a lot of boats.
 
There is no reason things can't be like they were before.

I couldn't agree more with the gist of the original post. The current amount of classes is crazy and the formats are not competitive.

The trick is to get an agreement on what classes. That's the hard part.

I would rather run 4 boats 5 times then run 5 boats 4 or maybe 3 times. The races are just packed with classes anymore.

Hobart is a great example of a good format. So was Indy unlimited.

In Florida this august we are running a different type of format that will be very competitive. Just to try something differant. Next year it will be in a better month. I would rather try something new cause it can't be any worse.
 
This has been a problem for some time now and it keeps coming up so maybe instead of defending why things are the way they are the members of the board should start listening to it's membership?

I have been around more than long enough to remember what racing was and what we do now is not, with the exception of a few great events that unfortunately for me requires a minimum of an eight hour drive to attend and a lot of money.

As I've said so many times in the past we need to stop adding classes without thinking of the consequences, every time we add a class it removes someone from another class. Our numbers are not growing but the number of classes has become ridiculous.On top of that people are getting pissed off because you don't want to race in a combined class, the reason we had classes in the first place was to test your abilities against others under the same set of rules.Not throw whatever you have into a heat and hope for the best, thats not racing.

Okay I'm done.
 
You guys just don't get it, the classes aren't filling because the boats ARE NOT THERE ANYMORE. Classes are getting combined just so people can even run!! So what's worse, combining into open classes so people can at least race or telling them no class for you??? We have a thread started by someone who doesn't race anymore, no offense but he is also part of the problem. I'm not saying I like it (I definitely don't) but you can offer as little or as many classes as you want and it doesn't matter if the boats are not there. And saying the board should listen to the members on this?? REALLY??? That doesn't fly, this one falls squarely on the membership and not the BOD. If you guys want to find the solution to the problem for starters look in the mirror. Ask yourself what have you done to bolster or help bring back the boat counts or classes you are looking for? And every time we add a class it removes someone from another class?? BS, the class got added because there were people asking for it, not to get someone to switch. If a class dies off it's because it was allowed to die off by those who didn't support it. So you say get an agreement on what classes to run and not run, so who gets in and who gets screwed???? And how do you do that where it's different what people run region to region?? If you are not happy because there's not enough to make the class or classes you like to run in your area then it's up to you and your fellow local racers to do something about it. And that in itself will be no easy feat as we've lost many to the crappy state of our economy, companies cutting back the perks (like time off) and a general lack of interest from the younger generations who'd rather play video games all day. Instead of sitting here crying the blues the energy would be far better spent on trying to improve things (if you can) in your given area. For those willing to try I wish you the best of luck as it will not be easy but it is something only you as a member and racer can fix.................. if it can be fixed.
 
I've been boating for 35 years on and off. I remember when districts (mine) only had five the seven races in a season with one or two of them being 2 day races. My district has 12 races and 2 record trials I have to pick and choose where I race as money doesn't grow on trees and gas being almost $4.00 per gallon. Yes it is the same for everyone. I am not the only one that thinks like this. Major races like Indy Unlimited and the Buckeye 880 used to sell out every year.

Part of the problem today is there are very few hobbyists anymore. Almost all new voters are plug-and-play, it is clear by the decline in new Nitro boaters. Boaters don't want to build test, test, and more testing which gives the hobbyists gratification and a sense of accomplishment.

New boaters want to put the boat in the water and go like hell! If it doesn't they sell it and move on. Money buys speed why should they build. Everyone that reads this Knows what I'm talking about!

Don't blame the IMPBA board for the number of classes because ultimately is a decision of the membership as they vote on it. Clubs need to start running the popular classes in their area. They can't please everyone so stick by the five boats to class. I will make better racing and eventually your classes will fill.

My rant is done now.

Kevin Sheren

IMPBA #7296
 
Nobody is pointing fingers and there is no easy solution to the problem, we get that.

But it is the number one complaint I hear from all types of racers and burying our heads in the sand won't make it go away.

Even with our constant growth in D1( we have almost doubled in size) it is a huge problem, simply to many options not enough people.Maybe as my good friend keeps saying we should all go GAS.
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lol

I'm going camping.
 
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I think the biggest issue is cost. Besides RTR and a couple others your going to spend a minimum of 1,000 dollars to get started. Then like me you have to drive out of state to go to a race District Race. But this hobby is not cheap and you need water to run. To make the 2 day races worth while you need more then 1 boat.
 
Well I have noticed a change also, D4 is ....or was primarily a nitro district. Now D4 offers alot more gas and FE Classes. When I started racing 8yrs ago there was enough B & D Hydros to race atleast a full heat per class. Our last district race we had 2 B and 2 D hydros...... Now my thing is i dont race gas ( Physically to big of boats for me) i possibly could try a FE class... but if i run anything it will be a HYDRO .... I am gonna make a sport .12 run by the fall just to throw it in with sport 20 which is almost dead here and had atleast 2 full heats of boats 8yrs ago.... just venting sorry
 
You guys just don't get it, the classes aren't filling because the boats ARE NOT THERE ANYMORE. Classes are getting combined just so people can even run!! So what's worse, combining into open classes so people can at least race or telling them no class for you??? We have a thread started by someone who doesn't race anymore, no offense but he is also part of the problem. I'm not saying I like it (I definitely don't) but you can offer as little or as many classes as you want and it doesn't matter if the boats are not there. And saying the board should listen to the members on this?? REALLY??? That doesn't fly, this one falls squarely on the membership and not the BOD. If you guys want to find the solution to the problem for starters look in the mirror. Ask yourself what have you done to bolster or help bring back the boat counts or classes you are looking for? And every time we add a class it removes someone from another class?? BS, the class got added because there were people asking for it, not to get someone to switch. If a class dies off it's because it was allowed to die off by those who didn't support it. So you say get an agreement on what classes to run and not run, so who gets in and who gets screwed???? And how do you do that where it's different what people run region to region?? If you are not happy because there's not enough to make the class or classes you like to run in your area then it's up to you and your fellow local racers to do something about it. And that in itself will be no easy feat as we've lost many to the crappy state of our economy, companies cutting back the perks (like time off) and a general lack of interest from the younger generations who'd rather play video games all day. Instead of sitting here crying the blues the energy would be far better spent on trying to improve things (if you can) in your given area. For those willing to try I wish you the best of luck as it will not be easy but it is something only you as a member and racer can fix.................. if it can be fixed.
Don, I think what the guys are trying to say,, is this (If I'm wrong correct me) with too many classes.

1: Back when,,, you basically had these classes to build boats for and race. 20-40-60-F/X hydro and mono That is 8 different boats/classes.

Then you have scale and sport-40 that's 10 boats/classes.

Then add in the tunnel hull classes 20-40-60 that's 13 classes at any given race.

If you happened to have built a cat hull, you had a hydro, you ran in in the hydro classes

2: now add up all of the different gas classes that are available,,, I'm not even going to try that one.

3: and the FE classes,, no way am I going to try to list those..

So, I think what everyone is trying to say is,,, with so many classes, boat types and power options,,, there is not as many people building/running the same type boats and power.

The people per class now is so diluted, because there are so many choices.... Does this make sence?? have I discribed it correctly?
 
I think WE have to look at some type of focused NEW membership drive. Our numbers are down as an organization. I don't think too many classes is the the root cause of decline. Back in the early 2000's in our district (D4) I saw Hydros entries starting to drop, mostly B and D. I had 3 really good "turn key" D Hydros, and one B Hydro "out on loan" to other racers just to keep the classes competitive and hoped to keep these racers interested and involved. Funny thing is they all found other activities to fill their time, none of them are still in our organization. We cannot keep losing racers without getting them replaced. They had really good equipment, plenty of help and had alot of fun. They chose to do other things, NOT race other classes. We have alot of really smart businessmen in this forum, maybe we can get some ideas going on how to draw in new racers and KEEP them.
 
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I think everyone is right in what they have had said. When I started racing there were 4 mono classes and 4 hydro classes. Then out boards came along. There could be 3 five boat heats of 20 mono per round at district events.

As new classes have been added and as our numbers of active nitro racers has fallen, we experience diluted numbers in the classes.

We don't have a lot of choice here. We need to attract more people into nitro racing, boat racing in general, and allow the CD's to merge classes. For many years we had catamarrans running with riggers in the hydro events. In Alberta we now race 20 mono, 40 mono and open mono. Maybe we will have to offer merged hydro classes as well.

No question but that we must attract new members. And the way to do that is to make certain that model boating stays fun for everyone. I was very happy to see so many wives and children at the IMPBA Nitro Nats in Evansville. We are competing for families, not just Dad. If we get the entire family involved, we have a second generation of racers coming up.

The other thing I must compliment the Evansville Club about is the good manners shown throughout the event. There was no arguing, throwing of tools, or loud swearing at the event. These are the things that drive wives and children away from our races.

We CAN attract new members and we CAN get more people racing nitro, IF we are the kind of people that others want to hang around.

Al Hobbs
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]I too have been at this for some time now.. "large" turnouts dont dive me.. I could care less about that.. The win from a large race is just that, as is a small race. (My opinion). I don’t care to much about that.. I love racing at the club and dist level.. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I do however feel we need to champion our areas, clubs and what not.. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Sooooo[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]A few years ago.. I started a race program for the local guys. We were getting 15 or so boats each week (we raced every wed night). I put this on, brought the chase boat, setup the cource…brought the PA.. the whole deal.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I kept telling the guys.. we are having fun right.. O YEA they said.. This is great.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I kept telling them.. if we want to continued we are all going to need to chip in and help next year… right.. O yea they said…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]So.. The next year came and it was time for our first race.. 2 people showed up.. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I was DONE.. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]You cannot FIX a lazy society. And that my friends are what we are and have become with our hobby.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]From building to testing to working the event.. we don’t have “TIME” for that! Trust me when I say this had VERY little to do with money locally, Boats were RTR, pond is close, chase boat bought and paid for, PA in place.. Very cheap racing.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]At the end of the day however.. we have 3 new people now in our area that run and race boats (took 9 years to get this). They have to travel if they want to race but our test pond is still open for anybody to join in.[/SIZE]
 
Great discussion with some very valid points.

I would like to say that we in D1are far from lazy actually the exact opposite, maybe that's why we continue to grow;-)
 
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