Take this H&M Viper Poll IF YOU HAVEN'T ELSEWHERE

[drobie]

It is clear to all who race that the H&M Viper is one of the most popular Sport Hydros hulls running today.

It is also clear that regarding the 24" minimum length rule, that some Vipers are legal while some are not.

There is probably not enough time to fix the rules in time for the 2005 season.

What should we do for this season?

 

[TRUCKPULL]

The rule is 24"

It will stay 24" until all NAMBA members vote on it.

A poll here may be 90% NON Members.

Sorry ED But a Rule is a Rule.

Same goes for the 29" Rule for "Q" Sport.

Larry

 

[drobie]

The rule is 24"It will stay 24" until all NAMBA members vote on it.

A poll here may be 90% NON Members.

Sorry ED But a Rule is a Rule.

Same goes for the 29" Rule for "Q" Sport.

Larry

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No one seems to want measurements, so in the meantiime somme Viper or Cabover or Larsony owners should be forced into epoxy and paint work when anothers are not.

That will entice all those non-NAMBA members with short hydros they thought were legal to run and join the organization.

 

[TRUCKPULL]

I have modified my two Vippers with Epoxy and paint.

Also a extra 1" canard wing.

Now you want to chang the rules.

--------- NO WAY --------

Rules do NOT get changed with out a FULL VOTE by all NAMBA members.

I will help write a Sport Hydro Proposal.

I do believe we need it.

But right now the rule is 24" and 25% cut back.

Larry

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

It will stay 24" until all NAMBA members vote on it.

Larry

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Are you certain, Larry?

The rule that stated when a successful proposal took effect was changed without a vote of all NAMBA members.

If that rule can be changed, why can't this minimum length rule be changed in a similar manner?

It's like a can 'o woims!

KW

 

[TRUCKPULL]

I agree that we need to change the FE Sport Hydro rules.

I will offer to help with writing a proposal for them.

But as it stands write now, we have to live with what we have got.

I am making sure that my hulls are all legal.

I will also protest any boat that is short or does not meet all the rules.

*Packing tape does not meet the rules for a canard wing.*

Larry

NAMBA - 615

 

[brooks93]

I would have to agree with Larry on this.. It doesn't matter what everyone wants the rule is 24" 25%. and boat better be atleast that. If you start letting it slide then where do you draw the line without everyone crying foul

 

[drobie]

It doesn't matter what everyone wants the rule is 24" 25%.  and boat better be atleast that.  If you start letting it slide then where do you draw the line without everyone crying foul

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I don't disagree with that, but there might be a message in that poll to consider ragarding how the majority thinks rules should be written going forward.

*Packing tape does not meet the rules for a canard wing.*

Just curious. Larry. What current rule dictates what kind of material must be used to cover a hull opening?

 

[brooks93]

so you needed a poll to say whats already been said a 100 times

 

[drobie]

Let's just let die, OK Kelly?

 

[Grimracer]

It is clear to all who race that the H&M Viper is one of the most popular Sport Hydros hulls running today.
It is also clear that regarding the 24" minimum length rule, that some Vipers are legal while some are not.

There is probably not enough time to fix the rules in time for the 2005 season.

What should we do for this season?

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Outsiders view.

Are you saying that there might be two (or more then one) different molds for the boat?

If the rule states that the boat must be more then 24" that seems easy to understand regardless....if you have one and i do not.. same boat?.. not if its shorter..

If the MFG can not provide you with a proper hull for the class then its not the racers fault. Looks like i would be bitching at the MFG and not NAMBA or its members. If you are a namba club then to make it easy to understand run your classes and run namba rules. namba club = namba classes.. its part of the responsibility of membership. its also the great thing about joining.

Grim

Now im not sure i understand the entire deal but seems like a lot of chat for a simple rule.

If the boat does not fit the rule then its not a legal boat..

 

[TRUCKPULL]

Just curious. Larry.  What current rule dictates what kind of material must be used to cover a hull opening?

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Hatch tape put across the top of the sponsons to make up the 25% would fall into the same category as my idea of using hat pins on the front of the sponson tips.

As pointed out to me by Paul,

They (the pins) would not an integral part of the hull.

Just as hatch tape across the top of the sponsons would not be an integral part of the hull.

Larry

 

[T.S.Davis]

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If the MFG can not provide you with a proper hull for the class then its not the racers fault. Looks like i would be bitching at the MFG and not NAMBA or its members.

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Sure seems like a no brainer don't it?

You would think that the guys that can read the book had shafted the guys who didn't read the book.

If you wanted to manufacture a new hull that was outside of the spec then you might lobby to change the rule prior to production. It might be a tough sell but if the change made racing better and made sense you could get it done. The way we did it was manufacture, sell, and race a bunch of these and then get pissed because someone read the book and said "hey, that don't look quite right"

There is a pretty strong support for no length restrictions at all but it's tough to swallow after the fits some have thrown over this particular hull. This one has been debated more tha once on the red board too.

Larry, any idea where "an integral part of the hull" comes from in the book? I can't find those words to save my life. I know I've read them but maybe it was something Andy had posted once. Sounds like something he would say.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hey Guys,

Larry's right on the tape deal. Look at the new proposal, if passed any add ons for length need to be part of the hull. No pins, no tape, no cardboard, no BS.

If the MFG can not provide you with a proper hull for the class then its not the racers fault. Looks like i would be bitching at the MFG and not NAMBA or its members.

Sure seems like a no brainer don't it?

Careful guys, the Viper hulls that I have owned all met the 24" minimum. I have seen short hulls but I haven't bought one. Chris doesn't measure every boat that comes in and H&M doesn't have any propblems running the Viper overseas. It's a German hull, not built for us here in the states. You don't like it? Go buy a friggin pile of wood and start gluing. To listen to some of you guys you'd think Fine Design is looking to screw you out of your money KNOWING the boats were short.

I'm soooooo tired of all the pissing and moaning about the length rules, the motor rules, the appearence rules this that and the other rules. All of them should come with a "use common sence and make an appropriate ruling" clause.

What a bunch of lawyers we have in MODEL BOATING! Go ahead, screw the whole deal up, scrutinize the rules until you bleed NAMBA blue. You'd think there was a million bucks up for grab the way some of you carry on.

Paul.

This craps really starting to piss me off.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Outsiders view.

Are you saying that there might be two (or more then one) different molds for the boat?

If the rule states that the boat must be more then 24" that seems easy to understand regardless....if you have one and i do not.. same boat?.. not if its shorter..

If the MFG can not provide you with a proper hull for the class then its not the racers fault. Looks like i would be bitching at the MFG and not NAMBA or its  members. If you are a namba club then to make it easy to understand run your classes and run namba rules. namba club = namba classes.. its part of the responsibility of membership. its also the great thing about joining.

Grim

Now im not sure i understand the entire deal but seems like a lot of chat for a simple rule.

If the boat does not fit the rule then its not a legal boat..

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Ah, but toss this into that mix, Grimmy.

If the particular boat in question had been available for more than two years and had already been run in at least a dozen races (likely more). Not a peep out of anyone in that two years, no complaints about size at all.

Then bamm! Out of nowhere all of this ruckus arose last year.

Apparently things were going too well in FE-land. Too many people were enjoying their racing. So, someone had to put a stop to that!

KW

 

[sjslhill]

Amazing, .125" can make a hull out lawed? Why does a hydro like this have a length limit to begin with? The way things are going, the growth may soon waiver due to over regulation. <_<

my 2 cents

Steve

Hey Guys,
Larry's right on the tape deal.  Look at the new proposal, if passed any add ons for length need to be part of the hull.  No pins, no tape, no cardboard, no BS.

If the MFG can not provide you with a proper hull for the class then its not the racers fault. Looks like i would be bitching at the MFG and not NAMBA or its members.

Sure seems like a no brainer don't it?

Careful guys, the Viper hulls that I have owned all met the 24" minimum. I have seen short hulls but I haven't bought one. Chris doesn't measure every boat that comes in and H&M doesn't have any propblems running the Viper overseas. It's a German hull, not built for us here in the states. You don't like it? Go buy a friggin pile of wood and start gluing. To listen to some of you guys you'd think Fine Design is looking to screw you out of your money KNOWING the boats were short.

I'm soooooo tired of all the pissing and moaning about the length rules, the motor rules, the appearence rules this that and the other rules. All of them should come with a "use common sence and make an appropriate ruling" clause.

What a bunch of lawyers we have in MODEL BOATING! Go ahead, screw the whole deal up, scrutinize the rules until you bleed NAMBA blue. You'd think there was a million bucks up for grab the way some of you carry on.

Paul.

This craps really starting to piss me off.

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[TRUCKPULL]

Hey Guys,
Larry's right on the tape deal.  Look at the new proposal, if passed any add ons for length need to be part of the hull.  No pins, no tape, no cardboard, no BS.

Careful guys, the Viper hulls that I have owned all met the 24" minimum.  I have seen short hulls but I haven't bought one.

Paul.

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Paul

Yoy say that the Vipper hulls that you own all meet the 24" rule.

But will they meet the 24" rule when measured in the box instead of the over the deck measurment.

With the box measurment you will be an other 1/8" shorter.

Larry

 

[T.S.Davis]

What a bunch of lawyers we have in MODEL BOATING!  Go ahead, screw the whole deal up, scrutinize the rules until you bleed NAMBA blue.  You'd think there was a million bucks up for grab the way some of you carry on.

Paul.

This craps really starting to piss me off.

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Paul,

First, the Viper is not important enough to screw up the whole deal.

Second, your right. The rules would probably be better recieved with NO limitations. The rules could be as simple as this

Power as defined by class specification

Must look like a hydro

Not a rigger

DONE! PRINT! THAT'S A RAP. let's move on.

Unfortunately there are as many opinions as there are ponds. You know what they say, opinions and a'holes. Which is baffling because only 36 boat turds (I mean that affectionately) took the poll on the red board.

You know what would be inspiring to me? (not that anyone cares LOL) I would be inspired if the gentlemen that feel the loosey goosey approach to sport hydro and the hydro "experts" would re-write sport hydro and get rid of the sections that are holding them back. If it's the right thing it would pass slicker than snake snot AND it would shut the traps of those that want to shove the rule book up your behind.

There are really only 2 camps. The virtually no rules camp and the tighter than the skin on a frogs a$$ camp.

Hey, maybe an either or proposal.

A. Tight as the skin on a frogs a$$ proposal

or

B. The loosey goosey proposal

Both on one ballot!!! yeah yeah that's the ticket. The ultimate poll. No soft money spending now.

We pick and then which ever way loses has to shut the hell up.

Paul, honest I'm not directing my rant at you. Your bigger than me and higher up on the food chain. It's just that I've heard even more debate on this crap than you've had to choke down. In fact that's why I have such an attitude about it.

It might surprise you to know that I would vote for proposal B. I get enough tight skin specs with the day job thank you.

Doesn't change the fact that we're stuck with the spec we have for now. It's only going to matter for one freekin race anyway. Then we have darned near a year and a half to get it straightened out or get it left alone or un-straightened out. We don't want to offend anyone.

 

[Dan Chase]

Terry?!? Did you run out of meds again???

 

[T.S.Davis]

Terry?!? Did you run out of meds again??? 

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hahaha

Your the second guy to ask me that in 24 hours. Maybe I should double up.