SEADUCER MONO

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i have a scratch-built ply-glass 32" Wild Thing" and i love it, i haven't tested it (like set-up) against "Miss Tupperware" my Seaducer FE-33 SAWS mono for straightline speed yet and don't think i ever will...

i run the "Wild Thing" in Q-Mono oval sprint on 16 cells, it's a sweet handling boat and fast as well... high forties

just wondering, what is the standing I.M.P.B.A. .21 mono 1/16th mile SAWS record?

Ron
Porter and myself hold it at 65.426 mph set in March of 99. Could have been faster if the bottom had not warped on us before the trials. It was a super light boat, so there was not much thickness on the wood I used to build it. It came in at just over 3 ponds ready to run. We did clock 77 mph the first and only test day at the pond. Took all day to get there and a lot of hardware changes. It was a delta design and only about 20 inches long, if that, with a 21 degree vee.
 
What a day at the pond we have today.....an infinity of tests with pipes,props ,struts,different boats etc and here the final result.

The new boat with the engine relocated 1,75"backward,plus a cooper pipe at 11,5"and a propshop 6518/3 modified was awesome in straights and turns WITHOUT THE TURNFIN as Finch said .Speed is in the 60's with no chinewalking,boat running on the keel and super predictable ready for our next race in few days.Again the hook reworked(not completely removed) has made a big difference and the boat runs great with different props with or without lift.1475 cup 6.6 is incredibly fast for a heat race so with a good start is hard to reach this boat that's turning on a dime.H31 cup 6.9 is also fast but slower in turns.We tried lot of props but the propshop 6518/3 cupped is unbelivably faster than others however the boat runs a little bit loose and demands carefull driving but a good driver can deal with it easily....I loved this set up!

Conclusion here is that with a reduced hook,turn fin removed(made no difference at all),strut 1/8 raised and flat with the keel plus the motor replaced Ducer's are hard to be beaten.As every boat is a boat .....take your time , try and apply your knowledge before give it up.

Hope this help someone inttending to get one someday!

Thanks

Gill
 
Here is something to chew on. If a boat's best ride attitude is say 2 to 3 degrees where it hits the water, then a slight hook lets the boat ride at a lower bow height off the water when the transon is at the desired angle of attack. So, you can go faster without blowing off the water. The problem then ensues when you throw the boat into a corner as the bow comes down to the water and the transom is then say 5 degrees angle of attack, which makes the forward keel bite hard, which makes the boat turn very aggessively. Which also makes the boat prone to making square corners on an oval course while other boats are staying in their lanes. That's the part I couldn't live with. Turn fins are not only not needed, but don't do any good when the bow bites too hard. I would rather have a boat that runs linear turns. I don't like having to go up to someone after a race and say "sorry, the boat hooked up quicker than I antisipated and I didn't mean to run over you".
John, this is a very informative post, you are bang on again. With my boat this problems occur only after 48-49 MPH any slower and the boat is flawless.
 
It takes a lot of ingredients to make a really good dish. Too many times we look for the special thing that makes a boat work when it is the combination of things that make it work well. Where the rudder is, how wide it is, how long it is, how far back from the transom. Like orlic said........up to a certain speed everything works great, but when you get going really fast all those little things then play a big part in how the boat rides. This is why some people say stuff works for them but it doesn't work for others. I found that almost every time I got another 5 to 8 mph out of a boat while setting up for record trials I would then see a new problem that needed to be solved that was not a problem at a slower speed. I think this is why we all have different opinions on setup, and are sometimes fooled into thinking certain things are universal fixes when in fact they are only cures for certain boats at certain speeds. Interesting thing to chew on, huh.
 
That's why i felt in love for boats 35 years ago to now...thanks all for this nice discussion.

Gill
 
there is still alot to play with ,, dont get the bog out until last.. he he

here is one to try , if you tilt the seaducer rudder bottom .5 / 1 deg off vertical to starb at the bottom.

i found the boat will then try to turn alot more linear...??

as i presume the rudder offset the keeps the nose up a deg....strait out of Mr Finchs book....

the turn fin is not needed until you want to turn real hard ( to run on a small pond - Not Oval Racing)..... without it the gas props will walk the boat real wide ,

i dont mind the big drifts , its cool charging up to a freinds boat sideways... LOL's

and it gets them all rattled.....

i did buff the transom down a bit on my hull to do a repair - i suppose i wound the tabs up a notch . LOL's

how far can i buff before it becomes a stepped mono ???

Jason
 
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I always thought that the trim tabs on just about every mono racing create basically the same effect as the hook in a Seaducer....
 
Yea, the old rudder tilt trick. Not many people use that one. Most all boats have a hook, like I said earlier, it's hard not to get a hook when you pop a hull out of the mold because the fiberglass wants to draw at the 90 degree angled areas and that causes hook. Thing to remember about the tabs is the inside ones control the boat in the straightaway and the outside ones control how much dig you get in the corners. If you lay the boat on it's right side, looking at the transom from behind the boat..........the right side of the transon, if hooked or has a tab, affects how much pressure is applied to the forward keel. Pressure at the transom keel applies pressure to push down the right forward side of the boat. The effects are a criss cross pattern.

Most boats tend to turn sharp enough, so going up on the right outside tab lessens the pressure on the forward keel and lets the boat ride the corners more linear. I don't use outside tabs at all anymore. Here's

the thing.........The keel is what controls how the boat turns more than anything. Sharp keels bite hard, while rounded keels slide. The right amount of round or sharp in the right areas make a boat so linear thru the corners that they are a dream to drive. Again, all boats are different because they all have different hook, sharpness at the keel, and weight distributiion, so knowing how to adjust the hull makes it or brakes it. Something else to chew on.
 
While this thread is active I'd like to ask all you Seaducer Gurus out there what techniques you have used to secure the tank trays in Ducers. I know Jerry has good instructions but I've had the tank trays knocked out of my 40 & 60 this year. I'm getting ready to build my 20 as well as hopefully enhance the tank mountings in my 40 & 60 hulls. I also had a little collision with the nose on my 60 into the rear of a Gas Cat in an offshore race and need to repair the nose. Basic shape is still there but crunched up a bit. Any thoughts in this area would be appreciated also.

Thanks for any help in advance!

Scott Norris
 
Scott i just built a new 60 boat. I used 5200 to hold the tray down.

But secure the tanks to the trays BEFORE you put them in the boat........... ;) ;) ;)
 
I think that hooks are produced from the molding more when poliester resins are used due to the contraction of the chemical reaction among polimers but when you use epoxy resin there is a very little contraction reason I guess most european manufactures use it .Why epoxy hulls are very often offered in US? I work with full size boats and get rid of poliester compounds for years due to this problem and working with epoxy resins not only we have got better results in streght but hulls are lighter with basically lifetime warranty to customers.Take a lot to swissmodelboats,Prersthwicth,Folkson's ,PPR and other and see they only use epoxy products with awesome qualities in their hulls.... light and strong.

I guess if we could have an epoxy vertion of a Ducer lot of trouble could be saved.

Yes the rudder tilt have been used a lot with cats ...don't know why not with monos? l

I'm learning a lot on this thread.

thanks

Gill
 
Scott 5200 is a marine silicone. It is sticky but the bond is SUPER. You can find it at a home depot. I comes in three colors. And once it drys you have no movent. I drys like a silcone.

It is that white stuff you see around the edge of the transon plates on the full size boats.
 

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