Seaducer 44" Setup,,,, CG quiss!

[dwilfong]

That nose job looks good!

Should help keep its head above water.

Andy you going into shock yet!!!!! :lol:

Better call Jerry and let him now there is a disturbance in the force. :unsure:

 

[John Finch]

Richard,

I have been working with the dive issue for about 15 years now and have figured it out. I see you doing the same things I did along the way. I had a seaducer I put in the local landfill crusher about 5 years ago. Like the viking funeral.....it was a good sound. Don't get me wrong.......the boats are the fastest out there, but the diving was not acceptable to me. I designed the Twincraft 41 inch pro boat with the same dipped nose as the seaducer and had the 34 percent cg and guess what. It dived too! But it ran 65 mph heat racing trim. The problem was cured by attaching a spoiler at the transom to keep the boat on the water. Never dove after that. If the transom does not leave the water the boat cannot dive. The boat heat raced at 65 mph but was an ugly boat too.

Another comparison. A 46 inch twin craft owned by Dick tyndal about 20 years ago. He modified the first 8 inches of the deck to dip a bit because it was damaged in an accident and he thought it would make the boat work better. It worked great most of the time, but I did see it dive at a local race just like the seaducer does. Then there is the Wild thing. It has a dipped bow but works ok at 50 mph with a 21 engine. Put a 40 engine in it and run on a quarter mile course and it is fine. Race it in a 330 foot SAW and about two thirds down the straight it can sometimes dive. Why......it is running faster......up in the 60 plus mph and the boat is no longer accellerating after going 300 feet so the nose drops. Note they seem to always dive about two thirds down the straightaway after the prop stops lifting the bow. I could go on and on with examples. Bottom line is........on your video the boat was flying. liertally. At 30 % cg the boat normally comes down straight and level. At 34% cg the nose comes down first......dive dive! OR. too much dip in the deck at the bow. So, there are two main contributing factors. Dipped bows and cg too far forward. Things like rounded decks can help rather than using flat ones. The spoiler works on the Twincraft pro boat. The forward cg lets the boat run faster, but the 30 % cg lets the boat fly level. Just some food for thought for you to chew on.

John

 

[Joe Warren]

What is the best prop for a 90 Seaducer. Hull measures tip yo transom 42 inches. Plan to use a picco 90

We ran very fast with X465 - X665 in the K90 engine days in a 42 seaducer. A X467 has a lot of lift for a 42 seaducer. jw

 

[Joe Warren]

If you are looking for the Ultimate Nitro Seaducer for BIG BLOCk racing? Consider the Seaducer 47, No hook and bigger boat than the 44

 

[Rickard Andersson]

John, thanks for your post. Well, the Seaducer boats are really super fast, but not as user-friendly or should I say, requires a certain ability to run. I'm a little surprised that there is such a high CG on these boats. Now I do not know what speeds you can hold in heat race trim.

As regards the question on a sloping nose, it is to try to move the CL backward. Perhaps closer to the CG but the main reason is not to get a big movement or force of CL with increasing speed. Another character I am looking for is that in the event of interference that makes the nose goes up, so the CL should not be as far forward so that the lift force increases and becomes too large so that the nose traveling on too much. This would mean that the boat can withstand shocks better, it becomes more dynamic stability. And/or you can add lift to the back of the boat to move the CL back. All that is to try to ride/fly level at all time in all conditions!

But if we start from the other direction, from the propeller. I've always wondered at what angle the propeller is most efficient relative to the oncoming water? What AoA should propeller have, if I know I can build a boat that is designed to accommodate it.

Rickard

 

[Rickard Andersson]

If you we looking for the Untimate Nitro Seaducer for BIG BLOCk racing? Consider the Seaducer 47, No hook and bigger boat than the 44

If this is not working out I have to go for the 47,,,,, but time will tell!

Rickard

 

[Rickard Andersson]

Was looking for a video on the 44 Seaducer, as it should run when going wicked fast during heat race. Did not find any on the tube. Any one know of were I can find any video?

Rickard

 

[John Finch]

Rickard,

I like to run the prop parallel to the keel on all my mono hulls.

 

[Andy Greene]

There are most all the heats of X-Mono from last years Winternats on my youtube page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/justvaughn2?feature=mhee

 

[Joe Warren]

You remove the hook from a seaducer mono hull and it is hard to get it to turn. It may run faster in the straight but you will give up a ton in the corners. I have seen others try this many times. i would like to see jerry design & develope a new 45 inch mono with a few changes. with Todays power the 44 is very good up to about 70 mph. after that it is loose and a little out of control. But the 44 SEADUCER is a Great Boat for racing!!!!

 

[Rickard Andersson]

Rickard,

I like to run the prop parallel to the keel on all my mono hulls.

I do the same, mount everything at parallel and neutral except strut/prop that set to the right by 2-4mm to neutralizing torque roll.

But on a Seaducer 44 with a CG of 34-35%, do people run the strut parallel to the keel or not and/or with what kinde of prop,,,, limeted in lift of prop?

There are most all the heats of X-Mono from last years Winternats on my youtube page.

http://www.youtube.c...n2?feature=mhee

Yes Andy I've saw your videos but no close up therfore hard to see, I saw an older video with more zooming (link). There is a dark / black seaducer, is it similar to that one that a seaducer should run in the water?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB0oXuuzcWQ

You remove the hook from a seaducer mono hull and it is hard to get it to turn. It may run faster in the straight but you will give up a ton in the corners. I have seen others try this many times. i would like to see jerry develove a new 45 inch mono with a few changes. with Todays power the 44 is very good up to about 70 mph. after that it is loose and a little out of control. But the 44 SEADUCER is a Great Boat for racing!!!!

Joe, you say that you would like to see a new one but why only 45" and not longer and what changes would you like to see on a new one? It would be nice if you could explain the big advantages of using hooks and even the negative with it. My guess is that whith no hooks the boat have to bank harder/more, use more rudder and maby use a fin to make the turn the hold it in the turn,,,,,,means more drag=slower,,,,,only my guess about hooks!!!!

Rickard

 

[Tom Foley]

Do yourself a favor ...get a brand new 44 " , set it up by the book with a known good powerplant VAC 91 , RS 91 or RS 101 . it will kick ass in racing conditions . If you want a mono that flys the bow high and is all over the place on the brink of disaster ...get something else or ignore the setup instructions for the 44 .

 

[Joe Warren]

Rickard,

I like to run the prop parallel to the keel on all my mono hulls.

I do the same, mount everything at parallel and neutral except strut/prop that set to the right by 2-4mm to neutralizing torque roll.

But on a Seaducer 44 with a CG of 34-35%, do people run the strut parallel to the keel or not and/or with what kinde of prop,,,, limeted in lift of prop?

There are most all the heats of X-Mono from last years Winternats on my youtube page.

http://www.youtube.c...n2?feature=mhee

Yes Andy I've saw your videos but no close up therfore hard to see, I saw an older video with more zooming (link). There is a dark / black seaducer, is it similar to that one that a seaducer should run in the water?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB0oXuuzcWQ

You remove the hook from a seaducer mono hull and it is hard to get it to turn. It may run faster in the straight but you will give up a ton in the corners. I have seen others try this many times. i would like to see jerry develove a new 45 inch mono with a few changes. with Todays power the 44 is very good up to about 70 mph. after that it is loose and a little out of control. But the 44 SEADUCER is a Great Boat for racing!!!!

Joe, you say that you would like to see a new one but why only 45" and not longer and what changes would you like to see on a new one? It would be nice if you could explain the big advantages of using hooks and even the negative with it. My guess is that whith no hooks the boat have to bank harder/more, use more rudder and maby use a fin to make the turn the hold it in the turn,,,,,,means more drag=slower,,,,,only my guess about hooks!!!!

Rickard

You would have to see the 47 to see what the new 45 would look like. Higher Free board and a Higher Nose would be a change. jerry is beginning to race again so we may see some new hulls in the near furture. I have won several races with the 44 seaducer but I have to play with the prop to get the correct lift i want.I run with the strut down it corners better that way, but sometimes it provides too much lift. just a diameter reduction can fix the pro, or taking a little from the trailing edge can kill some lift..

 

[dwilfong]

That video is a good indication on how thy run set up good.

Thy shine in the corners that is there attribute. But in the straits thy are on the edge.

That is where the calamity happens if not set up perfect with the right prop.

Just watch them going down the straits.

At the last race Jerry's boat would hook in the straits and he would throttle back to save it.

Thy are on the edge all the time that is how thy run.

You can not set them up in calm water in race water thy are a totally different beast.

Like Joe said over 70 MPH thy are a hand full.

But then not many can get there boat to that speed in race trim.

That is the reason I went with a different boat for the new project.

The Rico 47" is very stable at speeds over 70MPH but it lacks the cornering speed of the Seaducer and it is a tug at over 15Lbs.

Will see what the new Cal Craft 47" will acted like with big power.

 

[Scott Miller]

Here is video of my 44 SD3, it's about 30 seconds into the clip. Some good close up shots in slow motion. Also other members boats from Alaska. Never mind the music!

 

[Tom Foley]

Nice Scott ! Music ????????????????????

 

[Rickard Andersson]

Thanks for all inputs!!!!

I know the Seaducern is diabolical fast and that it shall have the right setup. We are competing in other conditions and therefore a boat that you are competing with do not fit outright for our conditions. But I think there is a lot for me to learn :blink: about how you run and setup your boats and therefore, how I can possibly implement it in my boats to make it work better. There not that many boat makers around,,,,, here in Europe! You have to do it by yourself! h34r:

Yes, Seaducern is very impressive in the turns, perhaps the fastest boat of them all in turn. Meanwhile, it is also the boat that you see during the race (youtube) to some time miss some buoys. If we miss a buoy so they count one lap off, if one not re-take the missd buoy again. You must be a very good chauffeur to control it! The Seaducern is extreme and the only one of its kind, therefore it's awesome!

Thank you for all your thoughts and info, it sounds good and if he is going to race again and designing new boats so why not some new 53 "and 57" monos for Europe!

Love the Alaska videos, as we had 3 feet of snow the last days,,,,, and Santa lives not far from here,,herefore Kalix will be one of his first drop off!

Rickard

 

[Rickard Andersson]

Scott, thanks for the nice slow motion video,,,, nice "keel riding" and I think one can see that the turning axis is forward on the boat by the ride of the back of the boat. Not need mutch input o turn! My guess is that what one wants withe the Seaducer regarding setup. I think by using the video as a tool for learning about the hull's abilitis is real helpfull.

At home outside the shed at the summer house it is -14 C and windy, inside the shed, it is calm but still -14 C. :wacko: Hull No.133 is now in its original garb, red and white, and the boat begins to take shape.

Rickard

 

[Scott Miller]

Richard,

Sounds as if your on the right track. Yes the Seaducer can really carve the turns up and it is really sensitive. You won't need a lot of rudder throw at all. If you radio has "EXPO" use it at approx 50% this will bring the sensitivity down and soften the steering in the middle.

Keep in mind this video was my first experience with my Seaducer just beginning to find the right setup. After this I moved to Charleston and found everything changes when you run with other boats racing with you. You will have a lot of fun finding the right setup for you.

Regards

Scott

 

[Rickard Andersson]

I build this boat to run,,,, not to make plug thus I'm not a manufacture of boats,, just a ordinary racer that like OT&E work (R&D). I think it's importent not to apply to mutch poly or fiber due to the weight. I'm trying to extend the hull by mount/extend edge - to - edge,,,,,,, " with no overlap". Yes one need to have some overlap to make it work!

Rickard