R/C U Bill Muncey Mem.

[jwo]

This weekend brings R/C U to Ellensburg, Wa. for the Bill Muncey Mem. Regata. This year R/C U is proud to welcome our Brothers and Sisters from UNW and PNWTA for 2 full days of Scale Hydroplane Racing. Be sure to check Chris Denslow's Smugmug site for More exciting photo's throughout the weekend.

 

[jwo]

Great weekend with lot's of racing. Here is the Gas Scale Final. Won by David Newton driving my TEMPO VII, 2nd Marty Shallenberger with his Olympia Beer and 3rd myself with the U-95. I cut a bouy in the first turn and had to run an extra lap.

. Dave Brandt wont the Nitro final driving Picco, Kirk Maupin 2nd with his beautiful new U-3 Turbinator and David Newton 3rd with the Electric Formula II. I will get video up later. Check out http://cdenslow.smugmug.com/ for alot of pictures of the weekend.

 

[miniczar]

It was a great weekend that's for sure. Rachael took video of each final, I will try and upload them tomorrow.

 

[lohring]

Your U-95 turned out very well. How are the electric 1/8 scale boats running with the nitro boats? do you think Marty will let them run with the nitro boats at the Northwest Scale Championships?

Lohring Miller

 

[Ray Sametz]

Great pics Chris. http://cdenslow.smugmug.com/RC-Hydroplane-Racing/2012-RCU-Bill-Muncey-Memorial/22713858_sLJwwN#!i=1820838927&k=2XdVb94

 

[Bill Brandt]

I support that during this attempted class buildup time, and I don't have one, right now.

We are limiting their setups to allow competition on an equal basis.

What is your opinion, Lohring?

Bill Brandt

 

[jwo]

Your U-95 turned out very well. How are the electric 1/8 scale boats running with the nitro boats? do you think Marty will let them run with the nitro boats at the Northwest Scale Championships?

Lohring Miller

Hey Lohring, In a nut shell NO. They will not run at the NW Championship with the Nitro boats. If they can get enough boats to make a class, they could run there own heats. Thank you, The U-95 is getting there. A little more testing and tuning. Then it gets a 29.5cc.

 

[Ken Smith]

Looks like you guys had a blast Congrats on the best of scale Albert Lee. Very nice boat. So Dave B won driving his old tride and true Pico. What happened to his new Elam? thx

 

[miniczar]

Just uploaded video of the gas final, here is a link:

 

[Marty Shallenberger]

Your U-95 turned out very well. How are the electric 1/8 scale boats running with the nitro boats? do you think Marty will let them run with the nitro boats at the Northwest Scale Championships? Lohring Miller

Hi Lorhring

The 1/8 scale electric boats are welcome at the NW Scale Championship race if they can register at least five boats to make the class. The boats they are building are fast and I look forward to see the class grow just like the other scale classes have in the Northwest.

Marty Shallenberger

 

[lohring]

I think that electrics with the right class restrictions are made for scale boats, especially with the cost and limited selection of big nitro engines. That said, I can't see how electric and nitro powered boats can compete equally. I've been working on some possible setups for both 7.5 and 11 cc nitro engines. The electrics always end up being too fast. You need to make a rule set that limits current so lower cost equipment can be used without melting. Propeller restrictions are one way. The problem is that electric motors don't quit when they are overloaded. They keep going until something melts. That means while we set the average shaft power at say 3 hp for a 7.5 replacement, the electric motor has no problem producing 4 hp if needed. A nitro motor would stall. The best thing about electrics is that the rules can be written to use existing hulls. My boat is a 20+ year old Dave Frank 8255.

The gas boats are potential solutions at the other end of the nitro engine problem. Here, you need a completely different set of hulls from the historic 1/8 scale. The class offers many of the electric's advantages. However, the boats are big. I think this year is the beginning of good racing after several seasons of building.

I'm excited about both gas and electric. It will take testing and development to see what is needed for both rule sets. You are at the forefront nationally.

Lohring Miller

 

[Hydro Junkie]

I like that inside move by Miniczar to take the lead, never expected to see a roundnosed gas scale to hold the inside like that. John, looks to me like both your boats are dialled in really well considering David took first and you drove around another boat and an extra lap to get third with the U-95. Time to stop tinkering so the others can catch up

 

[jwo]

I think that electrics with the right class restrictions are made for scale boats, especially with the cost and limited selection of big nitro engines. That said, I can't see how electric and nitro powered boats can compete equally. I've been working on some possible setups for both 7.5 and 11 cc nitro engines. The electrics always end up being too fast. You need to make a rule set that limits current so lower cost equipment can be used without melting. Propeller restrictions are one way. The problem is that electric motors don't quit when they are overloaded. They keep going until something melts. That means while we set the average shaft power at say 3 hp for a 7.5 replacement, the electric motor has no problem producing 4 hp if needed. A nitro motor would stall. The best thing about electrics is that the rules can be written to use existing hulls. My boat is a 20+ year old Dave Frank 8255.

The gas boats are potential solutions at the other end of the nitro engine problem. Here, you need a completely different set of hulls from the historic 1/8 scale. The class offers many of the electric's advantages. However, the boats are big. I think this year is the beginning of good racing after several seasons of building.

I'm excited about both gas and electric. It will take testing and development to see what is needed for both rule sets. You are at the forefront nationally.

Lohring Miller

Thanks Lohring. We have limited the props to 55mm. I would like to limit the pitch as well. As you have said they end up to fast to compete with nitro. I am not sure what the overall pitch would be yet. The guys are allowed to run a max of 8s batteries. This brings more issues of melt downs. Not having enough voltage is producing to much heat. They have been working through it, But I do not think it is cost/risk effective. 10 s with really small prop might be better what do you think?

 

[lohring]

I hate to limit more than prop diameter because checking gets hard. It also limits prop development. Our club ran spec props drawn out of a hat in the UL-1 class one year. It really equalized the racing, but no one liked it even though they still mostly run the same prop.

You should not be burning up equipment. The currents should look very much the same as my boat that also runs a 55 mm prop with an 800 Kv motor on 8S. See below. The Neu is a little past its peak efficiency at 150 amps, but it should easily handle the current as should a Castle ICE 200, especially when water cooled. My one experience with the ICE controller is that the over current protection saved it when a motor locked up. Its best feature is the data logging. If you are pulling too much current, work on the setup. Running the prop too deep really loads the motor. Getting the transom up on my boat helped.

For years electrics ran high rpm setups. In an attempt to match nitro rpm, we started running 20,000 rpm setups. In outboards, the torque buries the sponson unless you run the prop much shallower than with a nitro engine. In the two hydros we have tested, the low rpm works great. I think you have a good Kv choice. Again, look at the setup and prop selection. Prop lift may be important. It takes time and testing. Look how long it took to get the nitro boats where they are today. Electrics are in their infancy and no one knows the answers.

Lohring Miller

 

[Bob Brackett]

So far in running all last season and testing before and at the end of last season we have not "burned up" anything actually we run quite cool we are seeing esc temps in the in the 120's at max the batteries and motors come in around 100 to 115 depending on ambient temps. we did have another racer burn up a few esc's last year but he was trying to get an 80 amp esc to hold up with the scorpion 4035 which did not work. We are not hurting the batteries where we are at the come in between 30% and 40%. We have been running a few different packs and all have similar results. We are running all four boats with a few pounds of variance and all results between the boats are pretty uniform. The only failure we have seen so far is with a brand new Neu motor it went four and a half laps and then lost an internal connection so failure is absolutely no a problem. Hopefully we will get enough electrics to race at the northwest scale race.

Rob Brackett

Scales Unlimited Race Team

 

[Duck899]

So far in running all last season and testing before and at the end of last season we have not "burned up" anything actually we run quite cool we are seeing esc temps in the in the 120's at max the batteries and motors come in around 100 to 115 depending on ambient temps. we did have another racer burn up a few esc's last year but he was trying to get an 80 amp esc to hold up with the scorpion 4035 which did not work. We are not hurting the batteries where we are at the come in between 30% and 40%. We have been running a few different packs and all have similar results. We are running all four boats with a few pounds of variance and all results between the boats are pretty uniform. The only failure we have seen so far is with a brand new Neu motor it went four and a half laps and then lost an internal connection so failure is absolutely no a problem. Hopefully we will get enough electrics to race at the northwest scale race.

Rob Brackett

Scales Unlimited Race Team

Hi Bob, welcome to the forum.... What kind of speed do you think you could achieve with an electric scale if there were no restrictions....in other words, a true unlimited scale electric class?

 

[Ray Sametz]

So far in running all last season and testing before and at the end of last season we have not "burned up" anything actually we run quite cool we are seeing esc temps in the in the 120's at max the batteries and motors come in around 100 to 115 depending on ambient temps. we did have another racer burn up a few esc's last year but he was trying to get an 80 amp esc to hold up with the scorpion 4035 which did not work. We are not hurting the batteries where we are at the come in between 30% and 40%. We have been running a few different packs and all have similar results. We are running all four boats with a few pounds of variance and all results between the boats are pretty uniform. The only failure we have seen so far is with a brand new Neu motor it went four and a half laps and then lost an internal connection so failure is absolutely no a problem. Hopefully we will get enough electrics to race at the northwest scale race.

Rob Brackett

Scales Unlimited Race Team

Hi Bob, welcome to the forum.... What kind of speed do you think you could achieve with an electric scale if there were no restrictions....in other words, a true unlimited scale electric class?

Don F just ran 100mph at SAW.

 

[miniczar]

What would be the minimum boat count to have fe run at the nw scale champs? 5?

 

[Marty Shallenberger]

What would be the minimum boat count to have fe run at the nw scale champs? 5?

Hi David - I want to see a minimum of five boats to run the class. Since I don't believe the boats in RCU are following the current NAMBA class rules for 1/8 scale electric and we will be running the boats in their own class (not running with the NITRO 1/8 scale boats) should we just follow the National NAMBA class rules? Please let me know what you think and we will define the rule package that we will follow at the NW Scale Championship race.

 

[miniczar]

Marty, I believe the Namba class for 1/8th scale fe and the class in RCU is quite different. I don't know if anyone else outside of RCU (aside from Lohring which if I am not mistaken he uses the same set up) would make it. Maybe we could poll for it, but i would think RCU rules would suffice. I should have my boat done by then, plus potentially 5 or 6 others could attend by then from RCU if not more.