Piston & Sleeve Removal

Intlwaters

Help Support Intlwaters:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

kilr95ss

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
70
Bought a used MAC 21, while breaking it down, just to check the condition of the internals, it became obvious the engine was not properly taken care of. Gouged up the drum housing pretty good trying to get it off. Rust through out the inside of the engine, I'll post some pics tomarrow. What's gonna be the best way to get sleeve out?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Try to let the piston push it up while turning the flywheel. A popsicle stick or wide zip tie in the exhaust port shouldn't cause any damage, and should lift the sleeve enough to get your fingernails under the top flange. If it doesn't want to budge, you'll need to heat up the engine case, soak everything with penetrating oil, then try again. Heating to expand the case usually works for me... :)
 
Just had the same problem with an MAC 84. Soak it for a day in WD40. Then chuck it up in the vise and went at it with a torch. I use a brass washer from the glow plug at first. It cut that in half. I needed something a little more solid. I had an old small bearing that I put in the exhaust window and gave it a little twist and out it came.

Mike
 
Thanks, I filled the crankcase with WD40 last night. Guess the bearings still have a good seal, case is still full and no WD40 leaked into the container.
 
Got the sleeve out. Engine case is pretty gummed up, how do I get it out? There is some play between the con rod and crank. The crank measure .02" and the con rod bushing measures .202". Can I just get another rod bushing or do I have to get a new rod? The areas where the bearing ride on the crank seem fine, small bearing surface was .275" and the large is .392".

IMG_0653.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That thing looks like it has been through the ringer. :blink:

You might try an autoclave if you have one available to you.

An ultrasonic cleaner might work also. I say might as the photo looks bad. You can pick one up pretty cheap.

In any case you should absolutely change the bearings after you get the case clean. (I would recommend removing the old bearings prior to cleaning and install new ones after cleaning.)

Regards,

-Buck-
 
wow.... thats pretty rough. :unsure: :unsure:

It may be better to start new...

~James
 
First soak it in automotive "parts dip". This is the really nasty stuff for rebuilding carburetors that you use a dip basket with. It used to contain methylene chloride, but I think has something less carcinogenic these days; still pretty nasty. McKay and Berryman are two brands I know of. Anyway, it's pretty good at removing varnish and old fuel. For the rust, you can dunk the case briefly in phosphoric acid. Not too long though, or it will attack the aluminum alloy. After that, Ajax cleanser, the toothbrush and elbow grease. Finish off with the ultrasonic cleaner. :)
 
Thanks for the info. Im soaking it in PB penetrating catalyst, its pretty good at loosening rust up. Hopefully it will loosen up some of the other crude too. Ordered at set of bearing from Boca, just hope I can get the old bearing out without too much trouble.
 
A 24 hour bath in an 8 dollar crock pot with 1/2gal of green anti-freeze on Low will remove anything found on our motors, aluminum or otherwise, and leave the aluminum factory fresh without any metal removal or scrubbing. The aluminum will be as bright as it was cast.

Just remove the backplate and head. Leave the piston, crank and rod in. Add all the parts to the bath. Small parts such as screws or such can go into a small sieve basket with handle removed. Remove all the parts with a kitchen tong after it all cools down, or turkey baister the fluid back into the jug.

After cooking, you can remove the sleeve no problem and usually pop the bearings all in one stroke while everything is still hot.

Keep this out in the shed, do not breath fumes, do not re-use the crock pot or anything else used in this process for food ever again. Destroy the clay pot before putting into trash if trashed.

You can clean entire motors this way excluding anything plastic or rubber. In other words, remove the carb and clean that seperate - all that can go into Hoppe's No. 9 Gun Cleaning Fluid for 2 or 3 hours. Makes brass new again - dissolves all sludge. Rinse with soap and water.

The entire process will involve almost no brushing. If brushing is needed, use a stainless steel welding brush with Wrights Copper Cleaner (grocery store item) or use it with an old toothbrush. All water based and rinses clean as a whistle.

Bottle brushes are nice for using the cream inside the crankshaft bore. Gun brushes work good for the carb hole. Gum brushes found near the toothbrushes work good for tapped holes and needle valve assemblies.

Always wash every part with soap and water and a rag, and also dry with a rag. The dry rag will show you anything that needs more cleaning if you see any deposits in the rag.

Use a hot water rinse for less water spotting, or keep the oven warm with a cookie sheet to place parts on as you go. Spray your steel parts with WD-40 after rinsing. Don't wait for these to air dry...they will have no oil on them and will rust as they dry.

Works like magic. After this process you can start your rebuilding with basically parts that are as clean as the day they were born...

I go one more step and heat my steel parts (screws or couplers) in a pot of boiling water with a few birthday candles thrown in to cover the top of the water, and remove the parts with tongs - or wire hang them first. This hot waxes all your steel nice and thin when removed from the pot and stops screws from rusting inside the tapped holes after assembly, and keeps your coupler threads in good shape also.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A 24 hour bath in an 8 dollar crock pot with 1/2gal of green anti-freeze on Low will remove anything found on our motors, aluminum or otherwise...The aluminum will be as bright as it was cast....
Hey; I like the sound of that... Need to give it a try. :)
 
As I type this, I am stewing up a MAC 21 crank case. Let you know how it comes out tomarrow.
 
Just be sure you don't go past LOW on the dial, and also turn your parts once they are submerged to remove any air pockets so it can do its job. :)

If it needs another bath after you take it out and there's a stubborn spot of goop on it that won't brush out like on the exhaust port, bust the surface good with the stainless brush and add another 4 hours or so. If you let it go for too long, you will have a chance of darkening what aluminum is already cleaned, but if it does, it is easily taken off with the copper cleaner and toothbrush - it won't go very deep.

If you never have used steel brushes on aluminum before, go easy! It will drag inside corners and leave brush marks. It will also leave small scratches if not "lubricated" with the cleaner. Brass brushes will be safer in that respect, but wear out quickly, and the bristles aren't as long as the stainless. Just rinse it occasionally and look, you will be able to tell if you're being too heavy handed with it. Many light strokes work better than pushing and distorting the bristles, along with having the compound there to help.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
As I type this, I am stewing up a MAC 21 crank case. Let you know how it comes out tomarrow.
If you can find a B-G dealer 44k will also clean everything Alum brass all of it and look good as new. Im going to have to find a crock to try your coolant trick the thing about coolant is it raises the boiling point but cut it nearly 50 50
 
Im going to have to find a crock to try your coolant trick the thing about coolant is it raises the boiling point but cut it nearly 50 50
I am not sure you would want to cut the coolant with water, it works best full strength. Adding water will reduce the alcohol and glycol percentage, reducing its effectiveness. Is that what you intend with yours? You don't want high temps...that is what makes the coolant react badly to the aluminum. Time is better than heat in this case.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A 24 hour bath in an 8 dollar crock pot with 1/2gal of green anti-freeze on Low will remove anything found on our motors, aluminum or otherwise, and leave the aluminum factory fresh without any metal removal or scrubbing. The aluminum will be as bright as it was cast.
Just remove the backplate and head. Leave the piston, crank and rod in. Add all the parts to the bath. Small parts such as screws or such can go into a small sieve basket with handle removed. Remove all the parts with a kitchen tong after it all cools down, or turkey baister the fluid back into the jug.

After cooking, you can remove the sleeve no problem and usually pop the bearings all in one stroke while everything is still hot.

Keep this out in the shed, do not breath fumes, do not re-use the crock pot or anything else used in this process for food ever again. Destroy the clay pot before putting into trash if trashed.

You can clean entire motors this way excluding anything plastic or rubber. In other words, remove the carb and clean that seperate - all that can go into Hoppe's No. 9 Gun Cleaning Fluid for 2 or 3 hours. Makes brass new again - dissolves all sludge. Rinse with soap and water.

The entire process will involve almost no brushing. If brushing is needed, use a stainless steel welding brush with Wrights Copper Cleaner (grocery store item) or use it with an old toothbrush. All water based and rinses clean as a whistle.

Bottle brushes are nice for using the cream inside the crankshaft bore. Gun brushes work good for the carb hole. Gum brushes found near the toothbrushes work good for tapped holes and needle valve assemblies.

Always wash every part with soap and water and a rag, and also dry with a rag. The dry rag will show you anything that needs more cleaning if you see any deposits in the rag.

Use a hot water rinse for less water spotting, or keep the oven warm with a cookie sheet to place parts on as you go. Spray your steel parts with WD-40 after rinsing. Don't wait for these to air dry...they will have no oil on them and will rust as they dry.

Works like magic. After this process you can start your rebuilding with basically parts that are as clean as the day they were born...

I go one more step and heat my steel parts (screws or couplers) in a pot of boiling water with a few birthday candles thrown in to cover the top of the water, and remove the parts with tongs - or wire hang them first. This hot waxes all your steel nice and thin when removed from the pot and stops screws from rusting inside the tapped holes after assembly, and keeps your coupler threads in good shape also.
Interesting?, might keep me from buying one of those sonic cleaners, I think I can slip a crock pot out of the cupboard

without being noticed (LOL)
 
The crock I got does not have a heat setting, only on/off. According to my HPI temp gauge I use to tune my monster truck, the liquid temp is 260*. Lifted the case out of the coolant and everything seems to be fine. Noticable difference, case is almost clean!
 
you will have to do an "after" picture for us. I have heard of this before, but never seen the results...

~James
 
That temp should be fine. I don't have a temp gauge, but my low position will produce large slow bubbles and seems to be the right tempurature the way it works. Let it cook more if you want, I've only experienced mine darkening after about 40 hours with one that was real stubborn to clean that I didn't scrub and thought it wouldnt hurt just to leave it cook. Thats what taught me the copper cleaner and scrub brush trick.

I think the only time you would start to run into real trouble (other than darkening the aluminum) is if the tempuratures start to creep up into the 400 or 500 range where you would start to loose the temper of a heat treated case, or cause distortion. I dont think all makes are heat treated though.

The magic combination though is to use low heat / long time method instead of high heat / short time so the chemicals have time to work, and the low heat lets things soften and the liquid staying in some kind of motion.

I didn't take an after picture of the cases of this engine, but I can show you what a before picture looks like. I ended up painting it because some spots on this engine simply were too corrosion pitted and did not have an even color. I would have had to stone down past the pitting to remove the blemished areas, but was the areas that were not pitted were as bright and smooth as a new casting.

gallery_4478_135_29073.jpg


All the old gasket material and the RTV just fell off of this motor when I cooked it. The only difficult part was the highest heat area on the header where the castor was baked on terribly thick and had to use sandpaper to remove it, but even then the residue was softened up so much it just took a few swipes and it was off. The finished pics are in my photo album here at Intlwaters.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The results are in: WOW!!!!!!!!! There's a little pitting from the rust, but other than that the case is almost spottless. This is a lesson for those new to nitro, flush the engine with some after run oil! Big thanks to you Jetpack. Case has not been scrubbed, just rinsed with hot water and blown off with compressed air

Side by side comparision:

IMG_0653.jpg


IMG_0667.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest posts

Back
Top