Nitro versus Gas

[Al Hobbs]

Yes, it is all about having fun. As long as we are having fun, we'll keep coming back for another race.

One of my favorite thoughts is that the boater who consistently beats you in the races is the best friend you have. He is making you try harder, get better, and do a better job of preparing your boats. If it was easy to win races, you would not have to get better. If it was easy to win races, it would not be as much of a challenge, success wouud not be so sweet, and it would not be as much fun.

 

[Tom Foley]

.

What I have troubles with are tuned pipes that can run you $185-215.00 and $70.00 ready to go props.

\

Ron , not sure how much you expect to make per hour working but props take time . The RTR props available from all the top prop tweakers are a deal at their price for all that goes into one .I've messed with a bunch of props and can't come close to the likes of Bobby Austin, Brent Daily , Chris Hoffman , Andy Brown , Mark Sholund ,The Grims , Randy Rapedius ....did I miss some one ??? The hand welded pipes are a limited production part for this tiny group of consumers we call a hobby .

 

[Al Hobbs]

I agree, not only are the people who work props a lot better than I can be, they spent a lot of time learning their craft. They deserve a fair return for their work and their experience.

I know that all the costs add up when you finally total the cost of a new boat. And, each component has a cost.

The best pipes I have ever seen were the hand made pipes for sale at the 2000 Slovenia World Championships. There were many boaters from Russi, Ukraine, and other one time Iron Cutrain countries that set up small tables near the pit area. They had hand made, stainless steel, muffled pipes for sale. Each pipe was formed over their own moulds, either welded or crimped together, and represented many hours of work. These pipes were being sold for the equivalent of $10 to $15.

This means the individuals were working for less than a buck an hour to help get by. Now that their economies have improved, you still see some handmade pipes, but the prices are quite a bit higher.

Al Hobbs

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Are you sure he can handle it? I've seen that Elam first hand and it makes the Pro Boat scales look like toys. He may want to practice with his Pro Boat for a while before investing that kind of money. He might be better off starting out with the Oly/Dame/Weisfields hull first

 

[Ron Olson]

Tom, don't take my post negatively. I just pointed out that some of the parts for gas boats can be pricy but being the cheap son of a ***** that I am, I've gotten by without having to purchase the high-dollar stuff many times. There are places where I don't cheap-out though. If you can justify spending $150-200.00 for a pipe then fine, I just can't right now.

I can see both viewpoints as I run both nitro and gas and nitro anything isn't getting any cheaper in many ways.

You can take this hobby/sport any way that you want just like any other activity. Go fish with a stick and a string or go out and buy a big bass boat loaded to the gills. Play miniature golf or hit Pebble Beach.

 

[Tom Foley]

Tom, don't take my post negatively. I just pointed out that some of the parts for gas boats can be pricy but being the cheap son of a ***** that I am, I've gotten by without having to purchase the high-dollar stuff many times. There are places where I don't cheap-out though. If you can justify spending $150-200.00 for a pipe then fine, I just can't right now.

I can see both viewpoints as I run both nitro and gas and nitro anything isn't getting any cheaper in many ways.

You can take this hobby/sport any way that you want just like any other activity. Go fish with a stick and a string or go out and buy a big bass boat loaded to the gills. Play miniature golf or hit Pebble Beach.

LOL !! TRue

 

[Bill Gibson]

Yes, it is all about having fun. As long as we are having fun, we'll keep coming back for another race.

One of my favorite thoughts is that the boater who consistently beats you in the races is the best friend you have. He is making you try harder, get better, and do a better job of preparing your boats. If it was easy to win races, you would not have to get better. If it was easy to win races, it would not be as much of a challenge, success wouud not be so sweet, and it would not be as much fun.

I couldnt agree with that statement more......every single word of it!! I ve learned a GREAT deal from people who were better then me AND were willing to share with me why they were......set up, driving, whatever.....and in the end everybody benfits, as most racers thrive on competition and WANT to have good racing against each other......though i will admit it is kinda fun to STEAL a race every now and again with cheap, inferior equipment and lousy driving against high buck stuff! :lol:

 

[Al Hobbs]

Isn't that the truth!

 

[Scott Schneider]

Been a good read thus far, glad the first heated post of this becoming a nitro gas bash thread has be averted

Been running RC boats nitro powered sense the mid 70's, Worked with guys on the gas stuff sense it's infancy 15 years or so ago.

With a 30 year background as a commercial small engine mechanic, the maintenance, modifications of either is a non issue.

* So this above just to establish one RC boaters opinion ....

We collectively as RC modelers are becoming quite lazy and lacking in the skill set we saw within the hobby 20+ years ago.

Sense the earliest 1950's the idea behind being into a hobby was LEARNING and doing ... learn a skill, apply it moving on to the next etc etc. Now days so much of the newer & younger crowd while mechanically proficient to some degree has an overall much lower skill set or willingness to learn it. With that attitude of I will buy my success by supporting those who do the R&D and sell it to me now rule the roost more that at any time before hand.

Nitro engines these past 20 years have become VERY potent little engines making BIG power and insane RPM !!! ... but at a cost of not being very user friendly in terms of set up and long life unless set up and maintained "Just right"

Don't need to get into the squish/detonation, Plugs, nitro & fuel here ... anyone with some time in the nitro ranks knows this all too well.

Along came gas powered race boats, dead slow and weedeater based ... No longer is that the case !!

Within the past 6-7 years sense the 4 port Zenoahs (231/260) came out and rpm went up into the 17K+ range producing over 5HP on gas the game changed ... Big Time !

The SPEED the gas hulls race at now are generally Faster than a lot of the nitro hulls not much more that 10 years ago were running at ... That alone is pretty **** impressive.

You can assemble a top of the line gas boat with a few phone calls and a pay-pal/ credit card. And be REALLY competitive speed and handling wise if you actually follow & read some directions.

* This simple turn key ability is what is IMO behind so much of the Gas appeal ... Its stupid simple and easy, minimal support equipment needed either.

Does it make better boaters ... Hell No :blink: only puts more people with big egos and money to burn in the races with more bickering and bitching than ever.

Off my soap box ... Flame suit on

Regards,

Scott

 

[Ron Olson]

Well said Scott! We've seen over on the Dock where there are getting to be a lot take-it-out-of -the-box-and-run-it boats although not classified as RTR's, that's basically what they are if you have the money to have a custom-built boat made. Sometimes those with money have no talent or experience, they just want one because they saw some run and had to have them. Unfortunately I saw one of these people at a race who couldn't start his boat without help. I don't need to mention how badly he drove. Let's just say that if it was a slalom course he might have done well.

There are still some facets that a lot of us can't do, that's where the prop and engine tweakers come in. We can't lay up our own hulls or build our very own radio systems (OK, the majority of us anyway) but we learn to mix our own favorite components together.

I'll leave this here for a while as I could have typed more. I've got some boats to work on and am just taking a break. Back to breathing sawdust and paint fumes.

 

[Jeff Lutz]

Its about time the gas guys quit comparing the two and just run what they want.I don't really care which one is more expensive,you have to pay to play! I will say, people had the right idea 40-50 years ago. My father came out of controline speed circles over 40 years ago. Can you imagine a big, bulky, low rpm ,engine on the front of a speed job?What I mean by this, is if you want to run the fastest boats available today,run nitro. Jeff Lutz

 

[Bill Gibson]

I remember how hard i worked to get my first nitro boat to run 30 years ago......building it (it was a wood boat) rigging it, PAINTING IT! Gettiing the **** engine to to start...and RUN!!! Every step of it was a part of the LEARNING process....sometimes i wanted to trash the whole deal and just go ride my dirt bike...but i didnt...why? Because every time i got something right during the "process", i got this incredible since of SATISFACTION and i LEARNED something from it! Scott and Ron...yep you guys got it right....might not be pretty, but you got it right.....im THANKFUL for the way i came up in this hobby,and maybe thats why i still get as much of a thrill out of it today as i did 30 years ago AND IM STILL LEARNIN even more than ever thanks to racers who put me to shame when it comes to thier knowledge, skills, and experience that they are more than WILLING TO SHARE! Im glad im not a "plug n player" and had to do it the hard way as i feel i have a unique appreciation for the hobby that maybe others dont quite have....oh and im not bashing gas boats at all, as i would LOVE to have a gas Thunderboat .....but i would HAVE to build it myself as it would be a WOOD boat (love that Blazer Lauterbach!)for me it just wouldnt be as much fun if i didnt do it the HARD way! :lol: And hell....it all cost's too much! Cant take it with ya when ya go anyway! B)

 

[julianconde]

you got to pay if you wnna play gas or nitro dont really matter

 

[misshydro]

I remember how hard i worked to get my first nitro boat to run 30 years ago......building it (it was a wood boat) rigging it, PAINTING IT! Gettiing the **** engine to to start...and RUN!!! Every step of it was a part of the LEARNING process....sometimes i wanted to trash the whole deal and just go ride my dirt bike...but i didnt...why? Because every time i got something right during the "process", i got this incredible since of SATISFACTION and i LEARNED something from it! Scott and Ron...yep you guys got it right....might not be pretty, but you got it right.....im THANKFUL for the way i came up in this hobby,and maybe thats why i still get as much of a thrill out of it today as i did 30 years ago AND IM STILL LEARNIN even more than ever thanks to racers who put me to shame when it comes to thier knowledge, skills, and experience that they are more than WILLING TO SHARE! Im glad im not a "plug n player" and had to do it the hard way as i feel i have a unique appreciation for the hobby that maybe others dont quite have....oh and im not bashing gas boats at all, as i would LOVE to have a gas Thunderboat .....but i would HAVE to build it myself as it would be a WOOD boat (love that Blazer Lauterbach!)for me it just wouldnt be as much fun if i didnt do it the HARD way! :lol: And hell....it all cost's too much! Cant take it with ya when ya go anyway! B)

Ok putting my two cents in.. first I want to thank the guys who'd help me out in my boats.. This hobby isnt getting cheaper..Its nice to have guys that will help the that dont have enough money to get certan parts for there boats..But theres a differents in nitro and gas.. The nitro guys some at times can be annal and have the attudes not all are that way..there are some that have more money then brains.. The GAS guys are a great bunch to talk to and deal with...My boats are done by buget.. Don't have the big bucks to do it alot... That's why we got JAE riggers and zippkits. there more to people that can't aford buying built hulls...thats why we have a bunch of budget builders.. in away it's fun to build wood hulls. its mainly money is the main factor..

 

[julianconde]

I have to disagree with you misshydro theres people that are anal on both sides and theres people that are are willing to help or even give away stuff to help other boaters stay in the hobbie thats what its all about us as a collective group.

so you cant say it more towards nitro then gas and you cant say is gas more than nitro because i have had alot of help form both sides of the coin theres are people that Aholes in every hobbie and when it come to this one you cant say is more one than the other just my opinion.

 

[julianconde]

theres nothing wrong with building boats on the budget every bit of the 19 boats i have have been build th same. bought the hull then everything else came after that. so it dont matter if you run gas or nitro you have to buy everything little by little or all at once. i ussually just get everything all at once i leave the electronics for last.

but everyone is different i love gas and nitro dont matter what i have to pay to race either or if you dont have the money then race what you can afford... h34r:

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Okay... Helloooooo...

I see some of your are getting off the topic. It was first for manufacturers to discuss how they will make efforts to keep nitro affordable compared to gas but after some posts it appeared that either one could be expensive depending on what route you took... So then it seemed that it was appropriate to merely speak on how to keep nitro boats just as attractive to run as gas boats and it appeared a new boater or an old nitro boater considering gas could make an informed decision on both.

I will however, address the lost art form of the hobby... and just remind some of you that what you get out of the hobby doesn't mean that is what everyone else is "Supposed to get" out of the hobby. Let's open our minds a bit. There is and always has been that guy that builds really nice looking boats but don't run worth a darn. That guy... likes building boats. Then there's that guy who's boats runs really fast but can't drive. That guy likes making boats run well. Then there's the guy who's boat looks terrible, runs terrible and can't drive too well either. Well that guy... He just likes being around his buddies. So some may have entered the hobby to build... and others entered the hobby to race and others... just to sit around talk about old times. None should be considered less than the other for choosing what fulfills them most... Because like someone said... it's about having fun right? As for me... I like to go fast... drive hard and look good doing it... with a career that holds me sometimes 16 hours a day plus Saturdays and paint jobs that take up the remaining Saturdays and Sundays that I'm not racing... and since you can't outsource the driving part of the hobby... I will happily outsource the go-fast part.

 

[Ron Olson]

A win-win would be for manufacturers to offer package deals. Buy a hull, hardware, engine and radio system and give the buyers a break for the whole shooting match. They seem to know what hardware works best on their babies so that should be an incentive to give people a break . One stop shopping is easier in the long run for the builder as he won't be chasing or waiting on parts, just about everything could show up in one box. Discounts will give the buyer incentive to buy the rest from the manufacturer. Maybe package "levels" depending on how much you need.

 

[JeremyEdge]

All I can say is I love to build I love to tinker with my engines.Heck I love to take them apart 50 times to find a problem then fix it.I love makeing a certain part from scratch because its fun to do.Im not the best designing or engineering something but it sure is fun trying for both gas and nitro.I love the smell of both nitro and gas engine running.Plus they both bring a beautiful ringing to my ears.LOL.I just wish that both gas and nitro where a little nicer on my wallet.But im sure everybodys thinks that...

 

[TimothyJones]

Spend Your Money On......... A Car.......... A Boat......... A Woman..... A Vice.............A Toy

Everybody spends money on something they like !!!! The only Problem is when you try to do it all.LOL