Nitro Survey

[Don Ferrette]

....both of my greenheads have the bushing out past the aluminum allowing the drum to ride on the bushings. Have you seen any problems with this?
Thanks for the info!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sincerely,

Allen Waddle

Nope, that's better anyway as the bronze is a WAY better thrust surface than aluminum. B)

 

[ClayGlover]

OK, I'm not a guru like some of you longtime guys, but is Propylene Oxide something that is worth considering? I'm wondering why it is not discussed, and none of the commercially available fuels contain it. I remember John Ackerman's listbot post regarding it being something like "it is fast, but has the downfall of blowing up the engine immediately", could be remembering wrong. And some of you are using it with success. This is curiosity, and I may not get a response on this, but we'll see...

Is PO something that the average club racer should consider for heat racing?

Seems like a hush-hush thing, as Terry Keeley is the only one to share his PO mixtures and such :huh: , not sure why. Forgive me if I'm not hip to the stuff, but it is not really a mainstream fuel in my humble circle of boater friends. Are we missing something beneficial, or what? I've been reading up some on it, and some of the info says it's boiling point is 93 degrees F. Is a head clearance or bubble change needed to run right? interesting

How 'bout it buddy-ole-pal boat gurus, share the info with the mere fodder, or I'll have to find out at the Hard School of Knocks I guess

I await the flood of responses regarding this stuff

 

[Pennywizz6]

30 some dollars for a gallon for 60%? You guys are dumb, just mix 3, 20% for 15$ each mix them up and VIOLA! 60% and for 45$ you get three gallons of 60%... I cant believe only I thought of that?... Cmon...

Jk....

Phil <_<

 

[Joe Reese]

Good Idea

 

[DaveMarles]

Don,Speaking of CMB needle bearings failing,I have learned there is a potential problemas I have had that problem and would love to hear the fix.

Allen

I'm not Don but I can help. Use more oil and/or a better oil.

I see many of people quoting all these low oil contents and that their oil is the best in the world in one breath then in the next they tell of sticking pistons, blue needle rollers etc etc. I increased the oil content in all my motors 4 years ago and since then I havn't stuck a CMB piston, I use the AAC .90 piston liners too. I havn't blued a needle roller in that time either. Those things are generally lubrication related and can be fixed. I don't have time for those kind of failures and so I use a lot of good oil and since I started doing that I don't have bearing failures either.

Alan, How using more oil could be holding more heat in my motors I fail to see. They run cool with very little watercoling and are run on the edge of rich as they should be. I get a lot of power from my engines and do break things occasionally but sticking pistons,bearings and needles are not one of them. If I was doing straight line speed competitions such as Kentley Porter then thats a different matter but he's cramming the maximum amount of nitro possible into his fuel and thats not the same as everyday racing where speed AND reliability are needed.

The Aussies run their boats more than most, they are fast and importantly

they are prepared to experiment and if they tried it and it failed then I'd go with that most of the time. I wouldnt be knocking them by saying they shouldnt be making recomendations to others as someone implied here.

My 1.5 cents

Dave

 

[Don Ferrette]

" I'm not Don but I can help. Use more oil and/or a better oil. "

Dave & others let's keep things straight. I was running 20% oil WITH castor when I was bluing the needles. And Dave you yourself admitted to me that the CMB needles were hard to get oil to & the hole drilled in the rotor housing came out of our many e-mails back & forth about the needle bearing situation. You also knew that there was a problem with the chrome coming off the AAC liners for a time because you told me to stick with the ABC liners in my 90's when that was going on. The Picco EXR's that were failing were to alot of different guys, most of whom were running quality brand name pre-mixed fuels with high oil content & adding castor too. We started calling them "bag motors" 'cause you left the lake with the motor parts in a bag after you took it apart to see what let go. Why do you think O'Donnell dropped the Picco distributorship?? He was getting no support from Picco & trying to do the right thing for boaters with these failed parts was putting him in the poor house. I only started dropping oil content in the last few seasons & experienced NO problems. The CMB 80 motors WITH the added oil hole worked just fine on 17%, so did my 90. With the MAC motors I'm running now I think they could safely go even lower than 15% in heat racing fuel mix without issues but since my stuff is working well I'll probably stay conservative at 15% .

There is no denying that lack of lubrication can be devastating to a motor but too much oil is not good either. I've seen first hand what a bearing race looks like from a bearing that is skidding rather than rolling from excess oil, you can wear bearings out just as fast. They'll feel smooth but will have tons of play in them.

One BIG thing I think is critical with running lower oil content is behaving yourself with the needle setting, especially the 3rd channel needle. So often guys can't resist going one or two more clicks on that transmitter thinking they'll go a little faster. That needle setting is the BIGGEST influence on the life of a motor & many have died a premature death from it regardless of what oil content the fuel had. :blink:

 

[Don Ferrette]

"Please don't take my points as an insult to you - they are definately not that. S#1t, I'm in awe of anyone that can run 108mph and respect your comments....

Tim."

Hey Tim-

Dude absolutely no insult taken!! Sorry I missed this part as I typically find myself reading the Aussie posts early in the morning (before work AND caffiene, er I mean coffee!) or late at night when my arse should be in bed. And please keep in mind I respect your guys comments just as well. B)

I think one of the things we are seeing here is some motors, like MAC's, can be quite happy with lower oil content while some, like the K motors, need the higher oils to work right. B)

 

[Don Ferrette]

"Is PO something that the average club racer should consider for heat racing?"

No. Propylene oxide does impact the power of a motor as it is an oxygenator (not oxidizer) & promotes a better more powerful burn. The racing fuel distributor we get our nitro from also stocks the prope. One of the guys there put it to me this way, he said you could open a gallon can of it when you go to lunch & come back an hour later & the can would be empty. The drag car guys add prope JUST BEFORE THEY RUN. And yes this stuff has an insanely low flash point, just ask Kentley. This stuff needs to be handled & stored with the utmost care-

http://www.tedpella.com/msds_html/18601msd.htm

I personally don't think it belongs in the hands of the average club racer.

 

[Terry Keeley]

One BIG thing I think is critical with running lower oil content is behaving yourself with the needle setting, especially the 3rd channel needle. So often guys can't resist going one or two more clicks on that transmitter thinking they'll go a little faster. That needle setting is the BIGGEST influence on the life of a motor & many have died a premature death from it regardless of what oil content the fuel had. :blink:

Absolutely right!!!

BTW running just a tick on the rich side of that "all out scream" is actually faster, we've proven it with the Stalker. :blink:

Trust me, I was one of the hardest to break of that bad habit.

 

[Terry Keeley]

OK, I'm not a guru like some of you longtime guys, but is Propylene Oxide something that is worth considering? I'm wondering why it is not discussed, and none of the commercially available fuels contain it. I remember John Ackerman's listbot post regarding it being something like "it is fast, but has the downfall of blowing up the engine immediately", could be remembering wrong. And some of you are using it with success. This is curiosity, and I may not get a response on this, but we'll see...
Is PO something that the average club racer should consider for heat racing?

Seems like a hush-hush thing, as Terry Keeley is the only one to share his PO mixtures and such :huh: , not sure why. Forgive me if I'm not hip to the stuff, but it is not really a mainstream fuel in my humble circle of boater friends. Are we missing something beneficial, or what? I've been reading up some on it, and some of the info says it's boiling point is 93 degrees F. Is a head clearance or bubble change needed to run right? interesting

How 'bout it buddy-ole-pal boat gurus, share the info with the mere fodder, or I'll have to find out at the Hard School of Knocks I guess

I await the flood of responses regarding this stuff

There seems to be a lot of mystery and "voodo" about PO, it's an igniter, nothing more. I find running a little all year helps my starts, acceleration from idle etc.

When it gets cool (below 60F or so) it's a real benefit, especially when you're trying to burn a lot of nitro. I've seen motors that won't even start without it and I've shot a little in the carb for the start when it's real cold.

I can't say for sure, but I think many commercial blends have some for just these reasons. Anytime you hear them talk about and "ignitor", it's probably PO.

As far as making you go faster I don't think it does, look at Andy's results without it.

 

[Don Ferrette]

"When it gets cool (below 60F or so) it's a real benefit, especially when you're trying to burn a lot of nitro."

And where Terry lives it's almost always cool/cold/freezing! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Terry Keeley]

Ya, still workin' on those "hard water" props... :lol:

 

[Preston_Hall]

30 some dollars for a gallon for 60%? You guys are dumb, just mix 3, 20% for 15$ each mix them up and VIOLA! 60% and for 45$ you get three gallons of 60%... I cant believe only I thought of that?... Cmon...
Jk....

Phil   <_<  

 

[TimD]

PO is interesting stuff. When you run really high nitro in cold climates the motor struggles to burn the nitro effectively. (nitro is a very very cold fuel). The PO acts as an igniter to get the nitro burn happening properly.

It evaporates very quickly and you need to mix it with the fuel just before you use it. Keeping it refrigerated is supposed to slow down the evaporating..

I don't use it for a few reasons. It doesn't get that cold here even in winter, it's hard to get it here, and I run 50% nitro which probably doesn't need it (70%+ would be a different story).

Tim.

 

[ClayGlover]

thanks guys. never gets very cold around here either.

 

[AWaddle322]

Not to metion that Prope is very bad stuff to be around. Makes ugly vapor in the air and is thought to be cancer causing (what isn't). You don't want this stuff on you flesh either. Very dangerous stuff.

Allen Waddle

 

[dave roach]

I talk to a engineer yerterday about the cool power kart oil and he told me not to run gust the synthetic by it self for what we are using it for he claims that 14 to 18 percent with 2% of castor oil. this is way people are having engine problems. The syntheic mix is fine if your going to run strightway that last 4 seconds a run and like to rebuild you engine every run.So like I said before someone is"nt telling the hole store here.

My 0.02 cents

 

[Preston_Hall]

I talk to a engineer yerterday about the cool power kart oil and he told me not to run gust the synthetic by it self for what we are using it for he claims that 14 to 18 percent with 2% of castor oil. this is way people are having engine problems. The syntheic mix is fine if your going to run strightway that last 4 seconds a run and like to rebuild you engine every run.So like I said before someone is"nt telling the hole store here.My 0.02 cents

Ok Don, it's time to tell the truth. Tell how we put 2oz. of peanut oil in the mix. :lol:

It's ok to run what you want and I totally believe people are waisting engines with the oil they are using or the way they use it. But you would have to believe that there is a some kind of conspiracy going on here to suggest such a mistruth.

The original question was

Preston and anyone else.... I unerstand how to mix the fuels, but what oil brands and quantities are what im looking for. I ve heard of running Klotz and others, but what type specifically. Klotz makes alot of different oils....

. I think it has been answered (truthfully).

Propylene Oxide is as said basically useless unless in a cold climate. Or to be stated another way, only add it if your engine won't sufficiently burn the fuel you have.

 

[dave roach]

Klotz makes different oils you can use kl-100 that has 20% castor in it or you can use kl-200 is all synthetic.I have been using the kl-100 for 10 years with no problems.

 

[shoboat]

Boaters,

As far as Klotz products go they recommend KL-100 up to 40% Nitro.

The KL-200 is for 41% and up,which is all synthetic according to Klotz.

I have used KL-200 up to 70% Nitro mix, with no problems at all. I think

motor maintainance is the key here fellas,not which oil you use. I know

the after run oil is the key to long engine life. Good bearings,and a good

rod are critical to a great performing and long lasting engine also.

Good Luck Mixing,

Mark Sholund