I can't take it anymore!!!!!!!!!

[Nigtmare]

Mark and anyone else who wants to know where are we going with this boat.

I came into this hobby in 1979 running a homemade rigger and later into cats.

To tell you the truth, at the time cats were the thing to have. They were faster and

more stable in the water. I left the hobby in the mid 80's. The fastest rigger

in our club at the time was doing 40-50mph. I came back last year, into the hobby

and now the riggers are doing 70-80mph. They stay in the water much better

than they ever did before. Things greatly improved during the time I was out.

If it wasnt for people trying new and different things we would still be back

running at 40-50mph. (with straight turn fins made out of knife blades and wing

reflectors on top of the tube sponsons to keep the boat down). Matthew and I

arent here to invent the wheel. We are just trying things that might or might not

work. I have lots of time on my hands so I try to keep myself busy and to get

Matthew involved with something he can remember for the rest of his life. Now,

going back to the boat Mark you must have been peeking because we already

have drawings with a radio box inbetween the sponsons and the engine, where

the radio box is now. It has a complete cover engine and exhaust system. It looks like a jet rigger but with the same engines we use today. Is this thing going to fly?God, only knows. Where my r&d is coming from? It doesnt until I have our boat

running to our expectations. I just hope this will open up a new window for everyone to look through. As my son says, you got to think out of the box.

Thanks for your kind words....Nick B)

 

[Scott Schneider]

Nick,

Thanks for the insight, A fresh sheet of paper is allway good for new ideas.

Once again good luck.

Mark,

You say this .. and I quote:

SCOTT, I'm sorry for the way you view the world. Every single Formula 1 team must copy everyone else because they all look similar to me and that goes for Indycars, Sprintcars, MotoGP bikes and most other forms of racing. GET MY DRIFT.

Yea so what :blink: Still looks like a crapshooter or in that matter a Blackjack too. :blink:

About the time you guys start giving some info of the boat posted you continue being silly about what others see, and comment on.

Lets get some thick skin on boys and lets not be so damm defensive.

In a nut shell, they are all just MODEL boats built by big boys as TOYS !!

So with that said, I'm done and will comment no more.

Scott

 

[Mike Byer]

good deal

 

[Mark]

Norm Doerr,

Whats the cool air box look like? I have built airboxes for race bikes and race cars but how does it trap the water from going in the carb. Today I was going down a back road @ 130 Kmh in my Saab convertible and stuck my hand into the airflow. There would be a big gain if you could harness that energy to help the engine breath while still having the mixture right. Ram air into the carb on our engines would make them pretty sensitive to a set speed I would presume.

I would like to know what sort of aero force is pushing back against my rigger @ 120 Kmh.

 

[Norm Doerr]

Norm Doerr,
Whats the cool air box look like? I have built airboxes for race bikes and race cars but how does it trap the water from going in the carb. Today I was going down a back road @ 130 Kmh in my Saab convertible and stuck my hand into the airflow. There would be a big gain if you could harness that energy to help the engine breath while still having the mixture right. Ram air into the carb on our engines would make them pretty sensitive to a set speed I would presume.

I would like to know what sort of aero force is pushing back against my rigger @ 120 Kmh.

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Figuring that out is what has to be seen. Ackerman made a box a few years ago. I was not there for the testing but everyone said it sounded interesting. I am thinking one would have to take some time and make something that looks like a transmission line for a woofer, of course on a smaller scale.

I am assuming it would take some builiding and maybe six or so ideas. Atomized water will travel freely, BUT how freely if the airflow turns the corner?

The other side of the coin is that if we get more air we can make a bigger carb run good during mill time. AND we will need to provide more fuel. Pipe pressure will not be enough to feed it soooo we need to look at a float or chamber system. Imagine the possibilities!

 

[Mark]

I'm not sure about pipe pressure not being enough. I can run my Mac 84 way rich if I choose. How do the full scale unlimited turbine engines keep the salt water out with those huge filters up front. I was wondering what you do with the water once it's been caught. You would have to dump the water some how otherwise the whole airbox would fill up. Reversing the flow would be OK because it would be under pressure and the majority of the water would be heavier and keep travelling to the back to a catchment I guess. Perhaps you could have a small hole at the bottom of the catchment to drain the water. The ram at the front would still push enough air to pressurise the box even though it's leaking some out of the small hole at the back of the box. It's just an idea I may be way off with my thoughts on this one.

 

[Norm Doerr]

I'm not sure about pipe pressure not being enough. I can run my Mac 84 way rich if I choose. How do the full scale unlimited turbine engines keep the salt water out with those huge filters up front. I was wondering what you do with the water once it's been caught. You would have to dump the water some how otherwise the whole airbox would fill up. Reversing the flow would be OK because it would be under pressure and the majority of the water would be heavier and keep travelling to the back to a catchment I guess. Perhaps you could have a small hole at the bottom of the catchment to drain the water. The ram at the front would still push enough air to pressurise the box even though it's leaking some out of the small hole at the back of the box. It's just an idea I may be way off with my thoughts on this one.

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Some good ideas IR the box. I am thinking chambers would work. Not a clue on how to set them up, but getting a rid of the water is a concern. I have a few ideas of what could be done.

Fuel pressure with what we are doing now is fine. BUT if we want to step up and make more power we will need more fuel.

The guys in Indy did fuel pressure tests on thier Dyno and found that in order to process more fuel, we will need more pressure.

The problem with pipe pressure is it is not a constant source like with an electrical automotive type of deal.

Marty Davis was playing around with "pop off" valves on his fuel tanks, where he would run high pressure for the heavy load situations and when the engine would unloand the pop off will open and relieve fuel pressure. That is one of the things I plan on contiuing soon.

 

[Nigtmare]

Norm I don't think it has anything to do with pressure to go faster because the HP is there the RPM is there so why the boat is not going fast enough.my theory is the boat design has to be changed or the prop cavitates by 50% at the RPM's we are at. :unsure: Looking at the Japaneese boats are boats are much smaller and much heaver and it looks like there C/G is farther back and the sponson spacing its twice of ours :unsure: Nick

 

[Watercadet]

How do the full scale unlimited turbine engines keep the salt water out with those huge filters up front.

Not filter...think snorkel. And when they get doused they go out. Fresh water usually steams off but the salt is like boulders that usually do some dammage.

I am thinking of an air box like the LS1 Camaros a-la http://www.rksport.com/product/p_0109400/view_detail

The opening is in the bottom and the air is drawn/pushed up through a filtering element into the throttle body. We don't need an element, but I think the box design would work.

my .02

Adam

 

[Nigtmare]

How do the full scale unlimited turbine engines keep the salt water out with those huge filters up front.

Not filter...think snorkel. And when they get doused they go out. Fresh water usually steams off but the salt is like boulders that usually do some dammage.

I am thinking of an air box like the LS1 Camaros a-la http://www.rksport.com/product/p_0109400/view_detail

The opening is in the bottom and the air is drawn/pushed up through a filtering element into the throttle body. We don't need an element, but I think the box design would work.

my .02

Adam

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Here we go Adam http://community.webshots.com/scripts/edit...security=oBqQRG

 

[Watercadet]

Hey Nick... the link didn't work for me...

Adam

 

[Nigtmare]

air induction

Try this Adam

 

[Watercadet]

I like it

 

[Mark]

Norm Doerr,

Doesn't the pipe pressure increase with RPM or is it a constant pressure? I used to run an electric fuel pump in my Superkart and it was much easier to tune the engine with the vacum style pump that ran off the crank pressure. If you had fuel injection I guess an electric pump would be good but big bucks to make that work in such a small device. What sort of engines did they test the fuel pressure on. I remember carbs coming out for bike type engines that claimed to make more power because of the better fuel atomisation (finer dispursment of the fuel). That may be worth an idea, a carb that has fuel spraying from multiple nozzles instead of just the one. Carb would need to be bigger though if the nozzles pertruded into the venturi because they would take away some area from the venturi diameter and the flow would also need to be focused on. Has anyone ever researched this? Usually anything I can think of has already been thought of by people much smarter than me.

 

[Brian MAhoney]

Norm

Ever tried a float chamber?

Brian Mahoney

 

[Norm Doerr]

Norm
Ever tried a float chamber?

Brian Mahoney

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They did on the dyno. Not sure of the results, but for some reason they scrapped the idea. The dhamber was also very big for a 20 rigger. Of course I may play around with the idea after I consult Marty and have time to sit in front of the dyno.

 

[Norm Doerr]

Norm Doerr,
Doesn't the pipe pressure increase with RPM or is it a constant pressure? I used to run an electric fuel pump in my Superkart and it was much easier to tune the engine with the vacum style pump that ran off the crank pressure. If you had fuel injection I guess an electric pump would be good but big bucks to make that work in such a small device. What sort of engines did they test the fuel pressure on. I remember carbs coming out for bike type engines that claimed to make more power because of the better fuel atomisation (finer dispursment of the fuel). That may be worth an idea, a carb that has fuel spraying from multiple nozzles instead of just the one. Carb would need to be bigger though if the nozzles pertruded into the venturi because they would take away some area from the venturi diameter and the flow would also need to be focused on. Has anyone ever researched this? Usually anything I can think of has already been thought of by people much smarter than me.

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I think it increase with pipe pressure. And you can change the hole size of the pressure fitting to regulate fuel pressure. The engine gurus know more. But I would bet it goes up and down with the throttle. A majority of the engines they tested were 21s. Nova Rossis and Macs. There is a transducer for pipe pressure and fuel pressure. I don't have the numbers in front of me.

I would like to research this but first I will consult the gurus, then go to the dyno. It seems that there would be a lot of preliminary fabrication. I am sure Rod G. , Ackerman and Callahan would be able to point us in the right direction. My thoughts would be to just use the carb to regulate the fuel and find another way to get the fuel into the engine. I am sure we would need some sort of computerized regulator.

 

[Nigtmare]

Hey guys I went out with the new 40 rigger yesterday it was very windy so i had problems with that and i couldn't launch the boat with a big prop my self so I had a x455 on the back just to see what it would do? the boat takes off like a dragster it lifts the left front sponson out of the water for about 50ft and it goes down and stays on the water very nice and flat.It was a bad day to set up the boat do to the wind but I now know I have to get the back sponson on with some screws because they kept falling of with a two way 3m tape, only on the right side i guess the torq kept the pressure on that side?other than that the boat goes nice and fast I had my video cam with me but not enough hands to hold the cam and radio at the same time :lol: next time I will take Matt with me so we can do this together I'll keep you posted Nick

 

[Norm Doerr]

Hey guys I went out with the new 40 rigger yesterday it was very windy so i had problems with that and i couldn't launch the boat with a big prop my self so I had a x455 on the back just to see what it would do? the boat takes off like a dragster it lifts the left front sponson out of the water for about 50ft and it goes down and stays on the water very nice and flat.It was a bad day to set up the boat do to the wind but I now know I have to get the back sponson on with some screws because they kept falling of with a two way 3m tape, only on the right side i guess the torq kept the pressure on that side?other than that the boat goes nice  and fast I had my video cam with me but not enough hands to hold the cam and radio at the same time :lol: next time I will take Matt with me so we can do this together I'll keep you posted Nick

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Sounds good. Keep US posted. I am very interested in how that thing develops. Use the Bolinks servo tape for the sponsons. Put radio box tape on the tub and inside edge of the sponson. When you need to take it off use dental floss as a saw to peel the tape off.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Since we talked about new design "twists" check this............