Fireball Glow plugs

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I have been seeing articles about research in changing CO2 into other things like methanol ( and others). Most of the articles mentioned the use of catalysts to do this conversion. Rhodium is often mentioned. I dont see the price of rhodium coming down in the near future.
 
Funny no one has talked about alternatives to rhodium. Glow plugs haven't always used

rhodium, but somewhere along the line it became the popular go-to for the coldest plugs.

Platinum and Iridium have been used in the past, and it's entirely possible we'll have to cut

the nitromethane percentages way back AND go to a less expensive material for the plug

element. It is entirely possible to do such.


The fuel, nitro percentage, combustion pressure/temp, and plug element all work together

to achieve a catalytic effect. The catalytic reaction is what keeps the plugs lit, and that dynamic

changes with the rise in engine rpm and temperature.


Platinum is trading presently at $1130.00/oz., and Iridium at $6000/oz.


Present day plug elements are alloyed to contain ~ 10% rhodium, but only the plug manufacturers

know how much rhodium is in the element- and I'll bet they'll not tell anyone.


Ruthenium MAY be a good alternative to rhodium..... By comparison with rhodium, ruthenium is

much less costly and possesses very similar properties of extremely high hardness and resistance to

corrosion, but with superior resistance to wear. Ruthenium currently trades at $385.00/oz.

Rhodium and Ruthenium are next door neighbors on the Periodic Table-

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Fuel for thought..... no pun intended....

Thanks-

tim
 
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Guys,

I've seen a number of people using on-board glow igniters that keep the plug energized for the full run. With this in mind, is there anything that could be made that would be more durable than the frail little wire, using the battery to maintain glow instead of ignition heat? I know it's a catalytic thing, but there has to be other materials that can light of the alcohol.

I'd be OK with spending $50 on a forever glow plug. Just thinking out loud....

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BlackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC
 
It is not any kind of VODO I have bin told.
Just need to be a HOT wire that will not melt or break when glowing red hot.
Bigger wire hold up better but take more heat to keep red hot.
That is how it was explained to me by Andy.
A balance between MASS and BRITELNESS.
Dick Jones has a on board glow drive he built he called the Gizmo.
I is a smart system that knows how much to drive the plug under different conditions.
I had a call from him last summer out of the blue to just talk.
Hope all is good with him would love to see this work in person and come to market.
Top fuel eng melt the plug in les than a second.
Then thy run on the glowing ex valve.
Only way to shut it down is turn the fuel off.
 
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I ran an old twin with OPS .80's that I used a glow driver kit on it. I soldered wires onto the glow plug pin so I didn't have to use the crappy clip that came with it.
I made up a dozen or so as I was just testing it to see how it would work....

I was able to come off the pipe at any point, and then jump right back on with a pull of the trigger. It was great for getting on the start as I could really slow down as needed..

The little power box was adjustable and I had it set at about 60% throttle to shut off the power to the plugs.
The plugs lasted a lot longer, but I was also using a really heavy wire plug too... R8 or something like that..
 
R8 with a driver may be the best set up for a long lasting plug you can hammer on.
I have a driver set up I tried to use but it is just one more thing to play with.
Like it simple at my age..........LOL
 
I know guys like us will keep doing it but to get newbies in is the only future of nitro . We will all go the way of the old model boater and have to deal with health issues . Average age at Huntsville was probably 50 or so . Hope it gets better and I have personally reduced Nitro to 50 and will go to 30 % as an experiment . The start is everything .
 
Boaters consume more plugs than any other RC hobby. Again the trick is
I know guys like us will keep doing it but to get newbies in is the only future of nitro . We will all go the way of the old model boater and have to deal with health issues . Average age at Huntsville was probably 50 or so . Hope it gets better and I have personally reduced Nitro to 50 and will go to 30 % as an experiment . The start is everything .
Truth!
 
I know guys like us will keep doing it but to get newbies in is the only future of nitro . We will all go the way of the old model boater and have to deal with health issues . Average age at Huntsville was probably 50 or so . Hope it gets better and I have personally reduced Nitro to 50 and will go to 30 % as an experiment . The start is everything .
Yes and the instant response that high nitro give you with a cupped up prop is the ticket.
It will work with lower nitro but you will have to be on the clock wide open.
Nitro is a crutch for sure.
 
David,

And "glowing" is a matter of voltage. So, it's a matter of finding a material that will glow at a current voltage that we can apply. Or, maybe just a WAY heavier wire that won't break under our conditions.

I know that the diameter of the wire is a balance between what will glow under igniter voltage and/or combustion and what will survive the abuse. But, if we resolve ourselves to using an onboard voltage source, we won't have to worry about keeping it glowing from combustion heat alone. With the development of LiPo batteries, we should be able to apply sufficient current to overcome this threshold with a much heavier wire.

Off the top of somebody's head, what diameter is the filament in, say, a K&B HP?

Anybody know what other metals will act as our catalyst?

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BlackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC
 
Platinum is used because it can handle the heat and not melt no other reason I am told.
Adding Iridium adds strength to the soft platinum. To much and it gets brittle.
 
David,

And "glowing" is a matter of voltage. So, it's a matter of finding a material that will glow at a current voltage that we can apply. Or, maybe just a WAY heavier wire that won't break under our conditions.

I know that the diameter of the wire is a balance between what will glow under igniter voltage and/or combustion and what will survive the abuse. But, if we resolve ourselves to using an onboard voltage source, we won't have to worry about keeping it glowing from combustion heat alone. With the development of LiPo batteries, we should be able to apply sufficient current to overcome this threshold with a much heavier wire.

Off the top of somebody's head, what diameter is the filament in, say, a K&B HP?

Anybody know what other metals will act as our catalyst?

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BlackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC
Can you pull a wire out and get a good measurement for us?
 
Platinum is used because it can handle the heat and not melt no other reason I am told.
Adding Iridium adds strength to the soft platinum. To much and it gets brittle.
David,

Nichrome is used in vapes..... Now we just need to figure out how much current it takes to keep it lighting off ice cold methanol vapors.....

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BlackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC
 
Yes and the instant response that high nitro give you with a cupped up prop is the ticket.
It will work with lower nitro but you will have to be on the clock wide open.
Nitro is a crutch for sure.

High nitro percentages are NOT in the future of the hobby, if the hobby is to survive.

I don't care how much money one may think they have to spend on the hobby, reality

will hit when we find there is no one to race with, and the wife slaps one with divorce

papers.


It's been proven that straight methanol runs a 15cc rigger in the mid 90's.... more than once.

American's are overdue for a big lesson, and trust me, it's on its way. Arrogance and ego have

been on an exponential rise with no slowing down in sight. It just is what it is.


We should focus on getting all of our products back on American soil within the manufacturing

and marketing realm. That's something American's seem to have forgotten how to do.

We're relying on Italian engines whose bag of oats come from China. And yet we're supposed

to be ahead of everyone in the technology realm?..... it's time to prove it.


I've been chasing small and large CNC and Metal Forming outfits to get pipes made within a

low cost production realm- not the $300+ per pipe that CNC'd pipes have been selling for.

It's the same old problem- these American shops don't want to talk to you about something

as mundane as an engineered aluminum, titanium, whatever, tuned pipe for a toy boat- they

want those 6 figure jobs waltzing in their front door. And people wonder why China's taking

our lunch, and eating it, too?.... I, for one, do not!.... trust me, the worst is yet to come.

This hobby is going to self destruct from within in America. Obviously, it's well on course now.

And, please, don't shoot the messenger!
 

https://www.amazon.com/Ruthenium-0-10mm-0-01mm-diameter-capillary/dp/B081VMP4QS
This source appears to have all of the elements glow plugs could and have been made out of:
https://www.surepure.com/Platinum-9...-Wire-0.008-in.-diameter-x-4-feet-long/p/5517
I'm sure these sources would extrude whatever size one may want. There's also the plasma coating option

over a base material. It just takes some research.
 
https://www.amazon.com/Ruthenium-0-10mm-0-01mm-diameter-capillary/dp/B081VMP4QS
This source appears to have all of the elements glow plugs could and have been made out of:
https://www.surepure.com/Platinum-9...-Wire-0.008-in.-diameter-x-4-feet-long/p/5517
I'm sure these sources would extrude whatever size one may want. There's also the plasma coating option

over a base material. It just takes some research.
Tim,

Again.... My curiosity is about the elimination of the plug failure. I think if we find something, or a suitable size wire, it will no longer break, burn out, etc.... It will just require an on board power supply to keep it glowing, instead of relying on combustion heat. Since there are some who are already applying this concept, it shouldn’t be much of a leap.

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BlackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC
 
Tim,

Again.... My curiosity is about the elimination of the plug failure. I think if we find something, or a suitable size wire, it will no longer break, burn out, etc.... It will just require an on board power supply to keep it glowing, instead of relying on combustion heat. Since there are some who are already applying this concept, it shouldn’t be much of a leap.

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
BlackJack Hydros
Model Machine and Precision LLC

Brad, I don't disagree with your suggestion.... personally, I've rarely had a flame out issue with glow plugs- present day plugs,

or going back to the days of the OPS RC300 3v plugs (0.30mm wire, 6 amps). But, then again, I don't run these super tight

squish clearances a lot of people presently run, and am backing down on nitro %'s and designing pipes, timing, and particularly

blowdown, around that- with that said, I really don't care what anyone else's doing..... I just will try to do what I can to help this

hobby survive, affordably.

I have had issues with O'Donnell plugs being dead out of the box, to the tune of 2 per 10. Others in our club have had similar

issues. Make no mistake, I like the O'Donnell's, but have had much better fate with Rossi and NovaRossi (RIP) plugs.

I can only speak from mine own experiences on the matter.

Thanks-

tim

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I can only speak from mine own experiences on the matter.
 

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