FE Tunnel

[Dennis Whitt]

I am like you Ron.Allthogh I have run an H and M Skater with a 700.(2005 Namba P OPC national champion)A Q boat 16 to 18 cells turns me on but I have NO idea were I would start.How long does a 45 or Q OPC need to be.What speeds should I be looking for?Whats a good hull that would lend itself to FE conversion ?What chemistry of cells.

What should I wear,What shoes go with this bag ??Its like going to the prom I tell yah !!!!!

Any input from you real outboard guys would be deeply apreciated as the 700 class motor only yealds about a 25 to 30 mph boat wich I doubt would hold a torch to some of you nitro guys..Thanks.

Oh,And Ron.I think the P verus .20 and the Q versus 45 is right in line.

So Nitro versus FE

A123 versus Lipo.

This would be a good learning situation for all...And JUST A HOOT !!!!!

Oh and by the way( ADDS) Would there be a place for Quarter scale tunnel ??

 

[topfuel443]

Dennis, that was a funny post, my wife was wondering why I laughing histerically at the puter'...

Are you guys asking about nitro outboard specs to get an idea of where you need to be?

I can help with that....

.21 mod class, boats are usually 27-30 inches in length and run an HONEST mid to upper 40's in heat trim. Of course there is always a boat or two that will play at or around 50MPH, but not near as many of those as -people would like to believe, atleast not during heat racing.

.21 sport class, very similar, usually 24-30 inches in length and will run about 40-48 mph. There are a few boats that consitantly run near 50MPH if they "NEED" to.

.45 mod class, boats are about 33-37 inches in length and seem to run around the 50mph mark. not too much below or above. A 50+/- mph .45 boat will do very well in a heat race.

.45 stock, see above, usually slightly slower.

.67 boats usually run mid 50's give or take.

To be honest, there is not alot of difference in the speed of the boats between classes. For instance, I shipped over my little K&B powered .21 villain that runs about 46-48 mph consistantly, it is also 27 1/2 inches long at this years Tunnel champs. Being that I live in Germany, I didnt want to ship the whole fleet over. I entered that same boat in .21 sport, .21 mod, Enduro, Open Tunnel, and Offshore. With the last three classes, I was running against all of the big blocks .45-.67 and up motors. I had no problem running a tight line and staying ahead of alot of them. the only real factor was the bigger boats churn up the water more, so I had to be very careful to not stuff my little 20 boat. Considering I put a million laps on the boat/motor in 5 different classes over the weekend, I did pretty well coming out with 3 third place finishes.

does this help?

I will be shipping the entire fleet over there this year... with a couple special boats added to the arsenal.

~James

 

[John Knight]

I am like you Ron.Allthogh I have run an H and M Skater with a 700.(2005 Namba P OPC national champion)A Q boat 16 to 18 cells turns me on but I have NO idea were I would start.How long does a 45 or Q OPC need to be.What speeds should I be looking for?Whats a good hull that would lend itself to FE conversion ?What chemistry of cells.

What should I wear,What shoes go with this bag ??Its like going to the prom I tell yah !!!!!

Any input from you real outboard guys would be deeply apreciated as the 700 class motor only yealds about a 25 to 30 mph boat wich I doubt would hold a torch to some of you nitro guys..Thanks.

Oh,And Ron.I think the P verus .20 and the Q versus 45 is right in line.

So Nitro versus FE

A123 versus Lipo.

This would be a good learning situation for all...And JUST A HOOT !!!!!

Oh and by the way( ADDS) Would there be a place for Quarter scale tunnel ??

Dennis,

To answer your comment about a quarter scale tunnel - Carl Van Houten brought a GAS OB engine and lower unit with him to the CMB Tunnel Championships in March to show as an R & D effort. The hull that it would have to run on would just about have to be a 11CC hull or larger for the torque generated.

We were asked if we would allow time to demo a running boat at next years race. We went one step further. If there is enough boats (four needed) to make a class, then we would have a class of gas powered OB tunnels, and we believe it may be the first ones ever run in a competition race. Not sure if we would want to run the gas in an open class with FE's and 20 nitro tunnels. Major mismatch in size and wake generated. The club would have to discuss that.

So for all of the tunnel racers, NITRO, FE and potentially GAS powered, you have between now and March 24 & 24, 2007, (the proposed race dates of next years race) to get your boats ready, lined up, and be ready to have loads of fun. Just leave the egos at home.

 

[Dennis Whitt]

Hey John.We are in on the 11cc tunnells.We have 2 Fe quarter scale out board tunnels to enter.If you can dig up a couple of guys with gas O/B tunnells we would love to go head to head.What should we put up as Booty ?? How about a sponsor for that class.Got that covered if you like.Think you can get your guys to go for it ??

 

[John Knight]

Hey John.We are in on the 11cc tunnells.We have 2 Fe quarter scale out board tunnels to enter.If you can dig up a couple of guys with gas O/B tunnells we would love to go head to head.What should we put up as Booty ?? How about a sponsor for that class.Got that covered if you like.Think you can get your guys to go for it ??

Dennis,

We have 2 races for the CMB club we have been discussing. They are:

1. The October 2006 race which includes all classes, nitro, gas, tunnels and the just added Q-1 FE class. We have 24 classes in that one already. It will highly unlikely that we will be able to add any more classes to the race as we are at capacity now.

2. The tunnel championships for March 2007. Only tunnels are in that race and we have much more flexibility with that race than the Oct race with all of the classes.

Now with that being said, BOTH races have OPEN tunnel classes and you can run the qtr scale or the gas OB in that class. In addition, the tunnel championships has the E/F (60/80/+) class but the Oct race does not as our district does not have that as a district class offered. Our district races have to offer the classes approved by the district members. District 13 of IMPBA offers more classes than any other district by far and fitting in any more is hard as the races become longer.

So there are several options available with the present classes and more time and opportunity to work the race for next March. A class with the qtr scales and the gas OB's makes sense because of their comparable size and speeds. And would be better suited than the open when there are 20 tunnels running in that class. Time will tell.

Sponsorships are absolutely needed and desired. Only $60.00 sponsors a class for trophy plaques engraved with the sponsors name and all of the class info, letter of appreciation and a certificate in return.

John

 

[Kris Flynn]

So, James C, which one are you coming over the CMB club for? the tunnel champs?

HMMMMMM since I love the OB's SOOOOOO much I may just have to rethink my travel times....I was thinking of around this time next year, but it loks like around late March is a better time for me to come over the the good old USA!

Kris

 

[John Knight]

So, James C, which one are you coming over the CMB club for? the tunnel champs?

HMMMMMM since I love the OB's SOOOOOO much I may just have to rethink my travel times....I was thinking of around this time next year, but it loks like around late March is a better time for me to come over the the good old USA!

Kris

Kris,

If I may answer for Gabe for him (because I have been planning on the dates of next years Tunnel race with him and other club members), he will be coming next March and not to our October 2006 race. He loves his tunnels and that race allows him to run more classes than be can at the October race. Same goes for Ronald as well. Proposed dates (not firm yet but 90%) we are looking at are 24 & 25 Mar 2007.

We would be greatly honored to have some of our Aussie brothers to join in the fun and if you have followed the banter on the threads for the race you can see there was a lot of it. The race will be better, stronger competition and with the hopeful expectation of the FE racers joining in it will truly be a national or world class event.

John

 

[Dennis Whitt]

Hey John,Just to clarifiy I am speaking of the march race.And just go ahead and figure Fine design to sponsor that class and probably another open or Fe class.

 

[topfuel443]

Kris, everything John says is correct. I will be coming for the Tunnel Champs in march of 2007. If you like tunnels boats, whether thay are nitro, gas, electric, rubberband powered or whatever... this IS THE RACE FOR YOU!!

I CANT WAIT to see a big FE powered tunnel, that will be sweet!!

Come on FE guys, put on a show for us!

~James

 

[Capt Ron]

choices... :angry:

ok Dennis... i've deceided to build-up a [Q] outboard tunnel for the March race that i can run on [18 cell NiMH] or [7s-2p] Li-Ion...

[7s] Li-Ion to be equal to [6s] Li-Po nominal voltage, if that's the direction you want to go and we can muster up enough FE guys for a class... be it Q or Q1 tunnel

if we don't get enough interest in a fast electric class, i can always run my Q-boat in the open tunnel class...

starting from zero here but i have selected a motor and esc for this project... something neu

i'm shop'n for a good .45 tunnel hull and drive set-up, any suggestions folks?

Ron

 

[John Knight]

Guys,

I spoke with Dennis on the phone last night. The boats he is interested in bring he described are "big". And I wonder about the merits of those big boats running in the traditional open class with 20 tunnels that do run in it. That is true of the quarter scales as well.

Thought is how about the possibility of two open tunnel classes? Could be based upon:

1. Small open class - ie., 20, 40 & 60 engines and hulls 42" or less.

2. Large open class anything above that size, quarter scales, and gas

Keeps things relatively level for the class depending on the size and power of the boats. Would that work? Or will the large open class just mirror a large tunnel class itself? It would be a speciality class for the race but that would be fine. The entire race is a speciality race itself.

Dennis says he can bring in a sponsorship for the class.

Need your thoughts. We are here to put on the race for you guys that are coming in. Let's have some good racing fun!

John

 

[topfuel443]

I say OPEN is OPEN. I would love nothing more than to spank a 50" FE/NITRO/GAS tunnel's butt with my little 27 inch .21 sport Villain.... If you think the other boats are too big or too fast to run with, then you dont need to be in that class.

If you start breaking up the Open class based on whatever, it defeats the purpose of run-whatcha-brung-as-long-as-its-a-tunnel-class!

~James

 

[John Knight]

I say OPEN is OPEN. I would love nothing more than to spank a 50" FE/NITRO/GAS tunnel's butt with my little 27 inch .21 sport Villain.... If you think the other boats are too big or too fast to run with, then you dont need to be in that class.

If you start breaking up the Open class based on whatever, it defeats the purpose of run-whatcha-brung-as-long-as-its-a-tunnel-class!

~James

Are you willing to get that 27" Villain run over and turned into splinters by a Titanic and get put out of the remainder of the race? That is what can happen! The little 20's will have the difficulty.

 

[MOTOboat]

Interested in your thoughts,

Most tunnels today have a flat centre that does not easly lend itself to sealing an ESC or battery from water due to a flip or just while running. I've blow a ESC due to this.

I'm wondering if anyone here has a particualry neat idea how to protect the ESC and batteries from water, yet limit the heat build up (confined space). Yes they have to be water cooled.

Two options

1) I created a LEXAN box for the ESC that is velcro'd on the boat under the cowl. It has a removable side to dry out any water that may get in. However the batteries are expsoed to the water....makes me nervous

2) I could extend the radio box to the transom creating a Box for the batteries & ESC, sealing the top with a LEXAN cover. Howver it seems like more weight.....

I've thought about moving the servo to the rear of the boat with the ESC and having the "radio box" longer for adjusting the batteries forward or backwards as necessary.

MOTOboat...

No races won

No Championships

Just wanting to have fun...

 

[topfuel443]

John, what youre saying has a null point to me. My boat can get run over by any boat, .12 nitro - 30cc gas and turn it into splinters. I have had boats destroyed by racing, doesnt matter what class I was in, or what size the other boats are. You too have had riggers destroyed by other boats of the same size and bigger. This is the chance we take when we throw them into the water. Its Racing. No one wants their boat to get hit, and no one wants to hit a boat as both will likely be destroyed, but it does happen, and thats obvious.

A real F1 tunnel boat hull length is typically 6 meters (about 19 1/2 feet for the non metric savy)

This converted to inches is 236. 1/4 of 236 is 59 inches

So according to this arithmetic, the tunnels these guys are running, are around 60 inches long?

The only "1/4" scale tunnels that Ive seen are around 48-50 inches.

Your proposal for the two classes would limit the smaller of the class to no more than 42 inches. how is that better?? a 42 inch tunnel is HUGE. If a boat that size hits any other boat a full speed, all will be detroyed. End of story.

If you want to run an extra 1/4 scale class, to include any type of power, but it must be atleast a certain length, THATS GREAT! If the class turns out like I hope that it would, Im sure I will be building a 1/4 scaler for the 2008 race. BUT LET THE OPEN CLASS BE A TRUE OPEN CLASS!!!

Who all ran in open last year besides me? I think I was the only .21 boat wasnt I? If Im the only one brave enough or stupid enough (probably the latter)to put my boat out on the water, then let it be.

what are the other opinions.

~James

 

[John Knight]

Gabe,

Have done research but have more to do. Some points so far:

1. The qtr scales are about 50+ inches in length and have 11HP electric engines. 60" has been mentioned. I will be searching for photos this coming week.

2. A gas OB if it gets going will also be quite large in hull size. Specifics are not yet know as it is still in the R&D stage.

The riggers of mine that have gotten smacked have been from comparable sized ones, almost always in the very same class. I do not run my 20 in the F hydro class with single or twins. That is a comparable situation I am talking about.

Thought I had was to limit the max size of the small open class to those of 67's and below. What is the average length of those? 36"-38"? Then anything else over that would be the 67 size would be in the large open class.

The guys that ran in the open class in March were:

You, Ronald (20!), Premo, Lee, Carl (20 I think), Hearl, Byrd, Poole, Otto, Atwell Sr, & Ashmore. None of them would be affected by the splitting of the class. But it creates relative parity for fairness of competition. We have another group of FE racers that are looking at building some FE tunnels but that are in the 45 size range or even smaller. Concern is there about size and run times available for a long course that we run and with the huge chop they would have to contend with from the qtr scales. I cannot argue with that point. Fairness is a weakness of mine but I will not apologize for it. But we have plenty of time to get it right. I have been in dialogue with both groups in the last week and all are greatly excited.

John

 

[topfuel443]

OPEN class is OPEN. John, no need to explain, I know you well enough to know that you are bringing this up to be more fair to everyone, but Im not budging. OPEN Tunnel means anything goes, Period. I just dont see ANY need to split the class up



~James

wait a minute.... are those electric guys scared of a little nitro powered boat? I bet this is where this is coming from, Dennis and Ron called you up and started complaining because "Team Ovalexpress" wanted to run their .21 boats with the Bigger, but not so better boats.... 20 horsepower brushless motors the size of beer kegs, 5000 watts of power.... blah blah blah. Bring it on guys!

 

[Kris Flynn]

oh ohhhh James has already stated the trash talking LOL

to me, OPEN means OPEN too...24" boats versus 50"+ its the gamble you take

Alright my Fiancee agrees with me and that March is better than june/july...I think both of us will be racing she has the Villain James with the Geraghty 'sport' K&B

Kris

BTW MOTOboat,

What I did was glued the cowling to the center section, after I cut the radio box out of my boat (similar setup to a Villain) and cut out the middle under the cowl so I could get the batteries lower.

i inseted a second sort of transom (1/8" balsa) about 1" from the original to seal the cowl area up, then cut open a hatch in the top of the cowling.

Hope this helps!

Kris

 

[topfuel443]

Hahaha Kris... you bet I am. The smack talk is long over due if you ask me.. Itll be much more fun this year with all of the Amp heads talking about coming over, I can already hear the "batteries are for flashlights" references now....

Glad to hear you may be able to make it for the race. I think youve got it figured out by letting your wife race too...This way its a little easier to spend money on the toy boats when she is also involved. Unfortunately my wife has no desire to race, Ive tried.

~James

 

[Capt Ron]

wait a minute.... are those electric guys scared of a little nitro powered boat? I bet this is where this is coming from, Dennis and Ron called you up and started complaining because "Team Ovalexpress" wanted to run their .21 boats with the Bigger, but not so better boats.... 20 horsepower brushless motors the size of beer kegs, 5000 watts of power.... blah blah blah. Bring it on guys!

James,

half a [coke can] size brushless motors get ya 5000 watts these days... one the size of a [keg] could power a 50 foot Hatteras B)

me. i'm hope'n for enough fast electric entries to make up a [18 cell] FE tunnel class [Q or Q1]

my buddy Chris however, wants to run my Q boat in [Open] tunnel and like you, says open is open, from the waterbugs to the QE-II... bring it on!

did you tap John's phone? :angry:

Ron