Charleston Model Boaters, 2007 National Outboard Tunnel Championships

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Bill Zuber just PM'd me with the same question. The below is a nutshell of my response. I am looking forward to hearing the other side of the argument as it may open up potential future possibilities.

Rule book states:

"2. The powerhead and lower unit must be of the same manufacturer and model."

The confusing part is what constitutes a "powerhead" If the power head is simply the case that says "XM" then you are correct in you thinking, but if the "Powerhead" is the entire working engine that is mounted to the lower unit, then a .21 RG (albeit only one part) is certainly not the same "Model" as a .21 XM. They are two completely different parts, one is ABN and one is ABC. The RG was never made into a power head, and the RG parts dont just "drop" fit in the XM case.

By your way of thinking (Not picking on you Mike, just expressing my thoughts) I could install a NovaRossi SS Piston and Sleeve, Titan Rod, turbo cut the combustion chamber, custom built crank and timing etc. etc. and go out and set a record in IMPBA Sport Outboard class. would this be legal??? Because we have already done some interesting things with a XM....

The way I read it is if you want to cut on the stock crank or on the stock sleeve, piston and or combustion chamber, then you are free to do so, as long as the outward appearance of the motor, exhaust outlet and intake inlet do not change or go above specified limits (i.e. a Geraghty carb on a XM...)

~James
 
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By your way of thinking (Not picking on you Mike, just expressing my thoughts) I could install a NovaRossi SS Piston and Sleeve, Titan Rod, turbo cut the combustion chamber, custom built crank and timing etc. etc. and go out and set a record in IMPBA Sport Outboard class. would this be legal??? Because we have already done some interesting things with a XM....

The way I read it is if you want to cut on the stock crank or on the stock sleeve, piston and or combustion chamber, then you are free to do so, as long as the outward appearance of the motor, exhaust outlet and intake inlet do not change or go above specified limits (i.e. a Geraghty carb on a XM...)

~James

seems to me that the rule has the words.....stock appearing..... in there some where, so I always figured that anything goes on the inside, but you are still limited to the stock bore carb and the stock exhaust outlet size.

mb
 
By your way of thinking (Not picking on you Mike, just expressing my thoughts) I could install a NovaRossi SS Piston and Sleeve, Titan Rod, turbo cut the combustion chamber, custom built crank and timing etc. etc. and go out and set a record in IMPBA Sport Outboard class. would this be legal??? Because we have already done some interesting things with a XM....

The way I read it is if you want to cut on the stock crank or on the stock sleeve, piston and or combustion chamber, then you are free to do so, as long as the outward appearance of the motor, exhaust outlet and intake inlet do not change or go above specified limits (i.e. a Geraghty carb on a XM...)

~James
seems to me that the rule has the words.....stock appearing..... in there some where, so I always figured that anything goes on the inside, but you are still limited to the stock bore carb and the stock exhaust outlet size.

mb
Actually, the word "stock" isn't even in the rules. I think the "stock appearing" is a term people developed to paraphrase the rules.

This whole discussion points out how flawed these rules are. They are written to allow lots of wiggle room by people who have the know how or the $ to make internal changes to the engines. I still say it's a pity the class can't be kept simple, and lower cost, by just saying engines must be stock.
 
Chuck.. I know we have chatted about this before.. that was fun..

let me sum it up regarding YEARS of particapating in minature motor sports.. "Stock" is neather simple or cheap.. Not even close..

I wish it was

Chuck.. I know we have chatted about this before.. that was fun..

Let me sum it up regarding YEARS and YEARS of participating in miniature motor sports.. "Stock" is neither simple or cheap.. Not even close..

I wish it was… if for instance you’re a new racer…and you lost a race because you were “ in your eyes” out powered… what is your option?.. You know as well as I that you only have one and its to the tune of … well the cost of a new motor…

Now lets say you are a seasoned (what the class was intended for) racer.. Same Piper Chuck Stock Class rules.. and you lost a race.. Lost a race because you were “ in your eyes” out powered… what is your option?.. same.. isn’t it…

To most this is to the tune of up around 3 bills…

I do not want wish to raise this dead horse.. James.. As mod for this board..if this thread takes off and goes nuts and you have beat the horse until its 6” tall.. let me know and it will be locked on you command..

Thanks for being the OBD James… The work begins..

Grim
 
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Thanks Mike, I dont want this to get too far off topic of the original threads intent... but I dont mind discusing the rule. I think the majority will agree that the rule is only as good as it is interpreted by the racer. Its hard (almost impossble) to police completely, even if were left as it is, changed slightly to be more clear, or changed completely to say "stock" only. I have stated my perception of the rule. Is it wrong? Is it right? It's right where "I" think it should be, which could be/can be/and probably is different than others. Thats OK.

:D

~James
 
Just to steer us a little back on track...

The guys that have already registered (and are preparing to) for the race need to make hotel reservations as soon as possible. Based on the numbers, there are many who have not yet done this. The hotel info can be found HERE

The rate and quality is the best we could muster, the hotel is nice and the free breakfast is great. Its not the Hilton, but for a bunch of R/C boat racers its just fine. They have been very good to us in the past and we hope to give them the same support this year as well. It is close to the race site, and also very close to other amenities. (restaurants, stores, etc.)

The entries are at 100 or so, and we still have MANY of the heavy hitters that have said they are coming, but havent gotten the entries in yet. We have a slight problem with the race manager software and havent been able to update the website recently but are working on the problem. This race could approach 150 boats easily (which are all TUNNELS to remind you!). Dont delay, secure your frequency NOW!

~James
 
Just to steer us a little back on track...
The guys that have already registered (and are preparing to) for the race need to make hotel reservations as soon as possible. Based on the numbers, there are many who have not yet done this. The hotel info can be found HERE

The rate and quality is the best we could muster, the hotel is nice and the free breakfast is great. Its not the Hilton, but for a bunch of R/C boat racers its just fine. They have been very good to us in the past and we hope to give them the same support this year as well. It is close to the race site, and also very close to other amenities. (restaurants, stores, etc.)

The entries are at 100 or so, and we still have MANY of the heavy hitters that have said they are coming, but havent gotten the entries in yet. We have a slight problem with the race manager software and havent been able to update the website recently but are working on the problem. This race could approach 150 boats easily (which are all TUNNELS to remind you!). Dont delay, secure your frequency NOW!

~James

James,

regarding frequency, i'm using Digital Radio by Nomadio, will this make any conflict?

jul
 
Just to steer us a little back on track...
The guys that have already registered (and are preparing to) for the race need to make hotel reservations as soon as possible. Based on the numbers, there are many who have not yet done this. The hotel info can be found HERE

The rate and quality is the best we could muster, the hotel is nice and the free breakfast is great. Its not the Hilton, but for a bunch of R/C boat racers its just fine. They have been very good to us in the past and we hope to give them the same support this year as well. It is close to the race site, and also very close to other amenities. (restaurants, stores, etc.)

The entries are at 100 or so, and we still have MANY of the heavy hitters that have said they are coming, but havent gotten the entries in yet. We have a slight problem with the race manager software and havent been able to update the website recently but are working on the problem. This race could approach 150 boats easily (which are all TUNNELS to remind you!). Dont delay, secure your frequency NOW!

~James

James,

regarding frequency, i'm using Digital Radio by Nomadio, will this make any conflict?

jul


Jul,

I am not familiar with this radio, Is it similar to the Spectrum radio that has no assigned freq but searches for one not being used? If so make sure it is noted on the entry form and we'll adjust the software. Or let me know here and I'll take care of it. James (Gabe) is not doing the entries on the software. Another club member and I are doing it.

John
 
James,

regarding frequency, i'm using Digital Radio by Nomadio, will this make any conflict?

jul

Jul,

I am not familiar with this radio, Is it similar to the Spectrum radio that has no assigned freq but searches for one not being used? If so make sure it is noted on the entry form and we'll adjust the software. Or let me know here and I'll take care of it. James (Gabe) is not doing the entries on the software. Another club member and I are doing it.

John

John,

yup similar to Spectrum and using 2.4 Ghz frequency, no crystal use...i noted digital in the registration form under frequency...thanks

jul
 
James,

regarding frequency, i'm using Digital Radio by Nomadio, will this make any conflict?

jul

Jul,

I am not familiar with this radio, Is it similar to the Spectrum radio that has no assigned freq but searches for one not being used? If so make sure it is noted on the entry form and we'll adjust the software. Or let me know here and I'll take care of it. James (Gabe) is not doing the entries on the software. Another club member and I are doing it.

John

John,

yup similar to Spectrum and using 2.4 Ghz frequency, no crystal use...i noted digital in the registration form under frequency...thanks

jul

You will be good to go. Will take care of it for you.
 
Chuck.. I know we have chatted about this before.. that was fun..
It was?

let me sum it up regarding YEARS of particapating in minature motor sports.. "Stock" is neather simple or cheap.. Not even close..

I wish it was
It is inexpensive if the governing body and people participating, choose to make it so.
Chuck.. I know we have chatted about this before.. that was fun..

Let me sum it up regarding YEARS and YEARS of participating in miniature motor sports.. "Stock" is neither simple or cheap.. Not even close..

I wish it was… if for instance you’re a new racer…and you lost a race because you were “ in your eyes” out powered… what is your option?.. You know as well as I that you only have one and its to the tune of … well the cost of a new motor…
If the racers were running the same model motor then suggesting the new racer buy a new one is not the only option, learning more about setup is another obvious option.

Now lets say you are a seasoned (what the class was intended for) racer.. Same Piper Chuck Stock Class rules.. and you lost a race.. Lost a race because you were “ in your eyes” out powered… what is your option?.. same.. isn’t it…

To most this is to the tune of up around 3 bills…
For a stock motor?
I do not want wish to raise this dead horse.. James.. As mod for this board..if this thread takes off and goes nuts and you have beat the horse until its 6” tall.. let me know and it will be locked on you command..
Another great response. Last time it was I'm outboard director and you're not messing with my class. This time it's I'm the moderator, don't talk about this or I'll shut the discussion down. Anyway, I gave my opinion about the current rules, and so did lots of people last time. Interesting how the poll showed LOTS of people in favor of a stock class. Perhaps some day in the future those of us who feel a stock outboard class would be good for racing will face less hostility. Anyway, no need to lock this thread, I stated my opinion on the subject and if I feel like discussing it further, I'll open a new thread, or have some discussions with James and others offline.

To all going to the CMB race, enjoy. Wish I could be there to defend my offshore title, but our second little one is due in a little more than a week and I'm not traveling anywhere for at least a month.
 
Chuck,

You did not have fun with that… Sorry man… I did… did not mean to make you upset..

I would however like to state….I did not say "I'm the moderator, don't talk about this or I'll shut the discussion down".. I said if James (AS OBD) thought this was going no place I would under his recommendation (lock the thread)..

Read it for what it is.. that’s all..

Further more it you feel strong about a stock class.. Get one going. Champion the class until it forces sport tunnel to the side.. If its worth its weight in gold it will do just that.. If it does I will race that class too..

Back to the topic…

ROCK ON

Grim
 
Tonya, I would like to speak with you this weekend... Shoot me a PM with your phone number.

~James
 
You will be good to go. Will take care of it for you.

[/quote

Thanks lot!!!c u in the race...... B)
 
All right guys, we are now inside of 3 weeks from the deadline of March 16th. We are right at 100 tunnel entries as of Wednesday with several that are known to be in the mail. We need to hold with the deadline date so do not delay if you plan on coming. Controlled open water will be Friday from 9 am until about 7 pm when we will shut it down. There will be no open water on Saturday or Sunday or plans for it.

Just added to the competition level. Received a phone call a short while ago from Carl van Houten. He is coming and so is Mike Talley for sure. Most likely Mike Rushing as well. Wade Daughtry is trying to work out his work schedules so he can also attend. That would complete the Rowdy Boys team. Mike Talley and Mike Rushing have been at the lake today testing their boats in preparation for the race. Mike Talley is charged that he will do battle with another twin. Carl said that Mike "upgraded" his twin from last year's race. Only guess what that means.

Carl has been smoking with a full time job, building boats and trying to keep a girlfriend happy. And designing a new line of wood kit tunnel hulls in his spare time!

Get your entries in and come to the largest tunnel race ever held in R/C history.
 
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:huh:

Hello from the frozen Northland! (Upstate New York).

I know some of you guys probably thought I dropped off the Earth about 6 months ago, but, fact is I've been up to my eyeballs balancing making Gas outboard drives and running my machine shop. I finally have the "Lawless Cutthroat G-Drive for Zenoah®" ready to ship, so, you guys who reserved one will be seeing yours soon. If you missed your opportunity to reserve one from the first production run, NOW is the time to get your reservation in for the next batch. Call me. Or PM me. Or e-mail me. Anyway, if you haven't seen one, take a close look at Mike Crawford's boat. Mike talked me out of my last prototype, the one I planned to put on my very own boat, and now it's gone. (SIGH). He said he only wanted it to make sure his boat design would work with it. Really??? Then, why did he need my sample Saulsbury Python pipe? I'm actually very glad he got it together in time to go to Charleston. I hope the boat and drive work well for him. The very first production unit that I shipped went to none other than Mr. Mark Scott (aka OB-NUT), who had the faith and vision to actually pre-pay in full for his almost a year ago. Another went out to Kevin Sheren, the IMPBA National Gas Director. I wonder what he plans to do with that? Walt Radzinski will be getting his drive very shortly. And what about Mike Byer, who got one of the eight prototypes? Is Mike planning to take HIS boat to Charleston? While no one was looking, a new class of boats and drives was being born, against the odds and the negative advice of a few seasoned boaters, my wife, and some others whom I won't mention. I'm talking about a Large Scale Gas Outboard Class. Kevin's taking notes and working on rules, and a number of people have expressed interest in building boats or have actually BUILT them, and the drives are coming out day by day. Oh yeah, I forgot the Aussie contingent. So far, two prototypes have been tested and at least three confirmed orders have been received from OZ, so watch out USA, the Aussies are ALREADY on the bandwagon. Good luck to all the racers who make it to Charleston, and especially to Mike B, who tested a prototype and provided valuable feedback, and Mike C, who took a chance and put together a boat for the drive, and OB-NUT for tons of faith and patience.

I wish everybody well, good weather, good water, and a great race. I wish I could be there.

Fred Howe
 
:huh: Hello from the frozen Northland! (Upstate New York).

I know some of you guys probably thought I dropped off the Earth about 6 months ago, but, fact is I've been up to my eyeballs balancing making Gas outboard drives and running my machine shop. I finally have the "Lawless Cutthroat G-Drive for Zenoah®" ready to ship, so, you guys who reserved one will be seeing yours soon. If you missed your opportunity to reserve one from the first production run, NOW is the time to get your reservation in for the next batch. Call me. Or PM me. Or e-mail me. Anyway, if you haven't seen one, take a close look at Mike Crawford's boat. Mike talked me out of my last prototype, the one I planned to put on my very own boat, and now it's gone. (SIGH). He said he only wanted it to make sure his boat design would work with it. Really??? Then, why did he need my sample Saulsbury Python pipe? I'm actually very glad he got it together in time to go to Charleston. I hope the boat and drive work well for him. The very first production unit that I shipped went to none other than Mr. Mark Scott (aka OB-NUT), who had the faith and vision to actually pre-pay in full for his almost a year ago. Another went out to Kevin Sheren, the IMPBA National Gas Director. I wonder what he plans to do with that? Walt Radzinski will be getting his drive very shortly. And what about Mike Byer, who got one of the eight prototypes? Is Mike planning to take HIS boat to Charleston? While no one was looking, a new class of boats and drives was being born, against the odds and the negative advice of a few seasoned boaters, my wife, and some others whom I won't mention. I'm talking about a Large Scale Gas Outboard Class. Kevin's taking notes and working on rules, and a number of people have expressed interest in building boats or have actually BUILT them, and the drives are coming out day by day. Oh yeah, I forgot the Aussie contingent. So far, two prototypes have been tested and at least three confirmed orders have been received from OZ, so watch out USA, the Aussies are ALREADY on the bandwagon. Good luck to all the racers who make it to Charleston, and especially to Mike B, who tested a prototype and provided valuable feedback, and Mike C, who took a chance and put together a boat for the drive, and OB-NUT for tons of faith and patience.

I wish everybody well, good weather, good water, and a great race. I wish I could be there.

Fred Howe
Yes Fred, Mike Byers boat is entered in Charleston but being driven by Mike Hemrick.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot the Aussie contingent. So far, two prototypes have been tested and at least three confirmed orders have been received from OZ, so watch out USA, the Aussies are ALREADY on the bandwagon.
Fred,

we have 3 gas O/B tunnels in our club alone and the interest is growing - particularly from the inboard Gas guys. One of our club members has been running his against the inboard cats at the bigger events and the interest it gets is amazing - people swarm all over it in the pits!

I hope someone get's some video of these big beasts racing together at Charleston!

Tim.
 
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You can rest assured that I will be taking video of the gas OB's when they run next month.... after all my boat is entered with Mike Crawford piloting!!

For those that have not gotten to touch and feel the Lawless drive yet, let me say that you WILL be very happy with it. The cool factor alone should make everyone want one.. :rolleyes: hey it is part of what got me to build one of these big boats!!

Oh yeah, just a little teaser regarding a new boat that Mike and I will be bringing to the CMB race.... it is a tunnel, it is also a twin...... but...... errrr.... hhhmmmmm..... Okay, thats enough information.... guess you will all have to wait and see!

Bill
 
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