2007 IMPBA NOISE CHANGE

[Piston1]

The new rule is posted in www.IMPBA.net

Look in the "IMPBA Forms & Voting" section.

 

[steve speas]

The new rule is posted in www.IMPBA.netLook in the "IMPBA Forms & Voting" section.

"Technical Amendment to the 92db Noise Rule This was approved by the Board of Directors""At all IMPBA timed events including theInternational Regatta Straightaway and Oval Trophy Trials any boat exceeding the 92

dB limit by 1 (one) dB or more will not receive a time for any pass attempt that the boat was found over the limit, all other passes at or under the limit will count."

if we are changing the rules on record passes should all the old records be grandfathered because they were not noise monitored? if not, is this not a handicap for all who have to follow this limitation?

http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa210/i...w%20cat%20boat/

 

[Terry Keeley]

Thought I would post the complete amendment here...

Looks like our Board is trying, thanks guys!

Technical Amendment to the 92db Noise Rule

This was approved by the Board of Directors

As follows in the spirit of harmony and giving everyone a chance to comply, I believe we, as board

members need to alter the current rule at least for the 2007 season & see how things develop. Below

proposed changes I feel we as the board can make as a technical correction since the rule is in section

"K" Technical Standards allowing it to be implemented immediately in hopes of curbing the situation that

is quickly spiraling out of control.

6. IMPBA Noise Rule

At all IMPBA sanctioned events all boats MUST meet the following conditions, and boat

operators accept the included mandates.

a. A commercially available noise measurement device (Radio Shack or equivalent) must be

used. The noise measurement device will be set to the "A" weighted measuring scale,

fast response.

b. The maximum allowed db level for IMPBA Sanctioned events will be 92 db.

c. 1. Measurements must be made from the shoreline area, between buoy #6 and the starting

line. The measuring device will be set at a minimum height of 4' to a maximum 10’

above the water level. The device will be pointed approximately 90 degrees to the

running path of the boats. There are to be no physical placed obstructions within 10

feet of the table 360 degrees around the table or platform. The db meter must be

placed on a flat, stable platform such as a table with a minimum 2" soft foam pad under

the meter body. The sound inlet portion of the db meter must extend completely past

the foam padding. The measuring distance shall be minimum 100 feet back from the

line formed between centers of buoys one and six with meter no further back than 25

feet from waters edge. If the distance, due only to physical/geographical location

(not trailers, tents, etc), requires less than 100 feet from buoy one & six center line to

meter then 1 (one) db will be subtracted from the readings taken. The meter shall not

be placed any closer than 75 feet from the aforementioned line formed by buoy one and

buoy six. Pond locations that have potentially high reflectivity such as being closely

(within 500 feet) surrounded by buildings and/or dense forestry may utilize an anechoic

chamber to reduce reflective pressures. This chamber shall measure 12"x12"x12"

square with minimum 1" (one inch) and maximum 2" (two inch) acoustical (egg crate

pattern) foam lining the inside of chamber. The end facing the pond shall be completely

open with the meter pick up protruding into chamber from the opposite end centered in

that end.

2. All boats over the 92db limit shall be advised of being over. A boat found in violation of

the 92db limit by at least 1 (one) db or more will be issued a technical warning for that

heat. If upon subsequent heats the boat continues to exceed the db limit by at least 1

(one) db or more it will be awarded last (9 th) place points (40 points) regardless of it's

finish if said boat completes the heat or heats in question. A DNF will still result in 25

point score and a DNS remains 0 points. At all IMPBA timed events including the

International Regatta Straightaway and Oval Trophy Trials any boat exceeding the 92

dB limit by 1 (one) dB or more will not receive a time for any pass attempt that the boat

was found over the limit, all other passes at or under the limit will count.

d. If more than one measurement is made, the highest reading will be used. At the discretion

of the CD, a participant may be required to make a solo run to determine a db reading. If

a participant refuses to make a solo run, they will be disqualified from the event.

e. Measurements will only be made on boats that are on the race course, and are well under

way (i.e., not getting on plane or being launched or in the pits). The boat should be

traveling approximately perpendicular to the direction the measuring device is pointed, and

the boat should be located approximately in front of the measurement device in one of the

racing lanes on the front straightaway.

f. Measurement of the noise level should ideally be performed by the CD, but he/she may be

assisted by others appointed by the CD if this is not practical.

g. The host club shall provide the measuring device.

h. All db meters to be used at national type events shall have been calibrated and/or

certified for best accuracy in the 80-100db range within 6 months of that event &

calibration documentation will be on or with meter during said event. For clubs not planning

on hosting any national level competitions dB meters should be calibrated at least once a

year.

i. No race sanctions will be issued for any races on a national level that attempts to

disregard, omit or otherwise choose not to comply with the IMPBA noise limit requirements.

This rule will override any other rule in the IMPBA rulebook.

 

[Preston_Hall]

The 92 db thing is fine the rest is a little wordy. But the calibration documentation every year on a Radio Shack meter................come on.

You hear that sucking sound?

It is a little more fun be sucked out of the sport.

 

[SayMikey]

The 92 db thing is fine the rest is a little wordy. But the calibration documentation every year on a Radio Shack meter................come on.
You hear that sucking sound?

It is a little more fun be sucked out of the sport.

. Mike

 

[Brad Christy]

Guys,

For once, Preston and I are on common ground. As he said, the 92 dB limit is fine. The problem with whole noise issue is the method of measuring. You can calibrate a $10K dB meter until you are blue in the face and you are STILL not going to be able to reliably measure SPL in an open arena to the extent required to justify imposing penalties. It seems that the board is just going to continue to sit on their hands while the sport dies from lack of interest. There is a significant list of names that are NOT on the roster for the Internats this year that have never missed an Internats since going to their first. You don't suppose they forgot to send in their entries, do you?......... <_< I guess this has gone un-noticed by those who are supposed to be leading. I know that I was going to go, but when it became obvious the board was not going to correct the matter (instead, they re-double their resolve to stand in the pile), I decided to stay home. I just hope the Seville club doesn't take it too hard or get blamed for what is about to happen.

This noise issue is turning into that big white elephant in the corner that everybody know is there, but nobody wants to talk about or stare at too long.

Sorry. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[TomMoorehouse]

please take the noise discussion somewhere else........

 

[Chris Wood]

Tom,

Could you set up a seperate area for this topic.. I think in needs to be discussed instead of pushing it under the rug.

Maybe a area like the for sale or something?

chris

 

[Brad Christy]

Tom,

Where else are we to take it? IW has become (even if by default) the foremost meeting place for all things "Model Boats". I mean you no disrespect when I say that your shunning of the subject is only telling us to continue to bury our head in the sand. I know that is gets out of hand at times, but if we continue to turn away from the issue it is only going to get worse. And worse. And worse...............

I've only been "playing boats" for seven years, but I LOVE this hobby/sport. I really don't want to see it dry up and die because the governing body refuses to accept that a well meant rule that can't be fairly enforced is doing far more harm than good.

It's your board. Do with it what you will. But this isn't going to go away just because we don't want to talk about it. I don't want to sound like a "Doom's-day" prophet, but this board is for the boaters. If we can't use it, why is it here? I mean other than someplace to complain about Little E teaming up with Jeffy................. <_<

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[SayMikey]

Tom,
Where else are we to take it? IW has become (even if by default) the foremost meeting place for all things "Model Boats". I mean you no disrespect when I say that your shunning of the subject is only telling us to continue to bury our head in the sand. I know that is gets out of hand at times, but if we continue to turn away from the issue it is only going to get worse. And worse. And worse...............

I've only been "playing boats" for seven years, but I LOVE this hobby/sport. I really don't want to see it dry up and die because the governing body refuses to accept that a well meant rule that can't be fairly enforced is doing far more harm than good.

It's your board. Do with it what you will. But this isn't going to go away just because we don't want to talk about it. I don't want to sound like a "Doom's-day" prophet, but this board is for the boaters. If we can't use it, why is it here? I mean other than someplace to complain about Little E teaming up with Jeffy................. <_<

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

I must agree with Brad and Chris,this is THE place to talk r/c boats. While the noise issue is not a popular one its important to air out issues and feelings. Some control may be needed if someone goes ranting and raving. In the end we are all for growth in model boating,issues have answers we just need to find common ground.

 

[Piston1]

It is 93db for all practical purpose.

 

[Ray Sametz]

Play the hand your dealt. Test and run your boat at 90db, you should be fine with the variables. Oh, Leave Little E out of this. Ray

 

[TomMoorehouse]

every time this comes up it a big nasty fight......

 

[BigChuck]

Guys

" The Nasty Fight" TOM IS CORRECT..........

" NEED To BE Discussed" Maybe not Chris. Everyone is talking by NOT GOING!! AND WILL CONTUINE TO TALK UNTIL................

I have said this MANY TIME BEFORE..................CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW!!! When we learn what the agenda is............And it is gettting more and more visible.

92-93 makes no difference....................We are going to have to quailify our boats for SOUND on FRIDAY!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :blink:

Atlanta the biggest boat count race of the year. Evansville the second highest............was that by accident.

Look at the classes for the BIG Dance. "Sport boat clesses are the largeest" Now add all the other things that we have talked about with great intensity. "

Read the bottom of that admendment..........No sanction with out noise rule enforced. Looks like a lot of Club racing next year!!!!!!!!!

 

[dr gary turner]

I have been running boats for over 25 years and am a life member of Impba and have served on the board in the past. The present noise rule has done more harm to IMPBA than any other issue in it's history.

One can debate the science, physics and auditory physiology until we are blue in the face and many will not accept science on this issue. Setting all of this aside, the best races, the most fun races and the best competion has been at ponds where muffled tuned pipes and or mufflers were required and the db meter was left at home.

The bottom line is that people at the races want to race and not deal with a horrible rule. If the present President and board do not show some leadership and recognize that the rule that they are forcing down everybodies throat is destroying IMBPA, IMPBA is done as an organization.

Yes Brad, I believe this years turn out for the Nats is probabaly one of the worst and it is not due to gas prices or distance nor due to the lack of effort of the host club. They should be commended for their work and the President and some of the board members need to be voted out of office, if the organization can last until elections take place. It is hard enough for clubs to put on a race and get everything done and have enough people to do the work. The present modification adds even more burden and controversy at races and people are staying home doing something else with their free time.

Again we need leadership!!!!!!!!! I mentioned this before and TOM got mad at me. I don't regret the fact of saying that we need leadership and we still need LEADERSHIP to recognize that the present policy is destroying IMPBA. Gary

 

[Brad Christy]

Guys,

I think it's time for a change of the guard............. Really.

No, I'm not talking about Tom M. I know I don't want his position of maintaining a discussion board that permits "free" converse, yet presents a positive image of our sport. Difficult to say the least.

Many members of the board attended last years' Internats, where a new rule turned the entire event into a raging Indian sxxtpile. Now the board not only upholds this abortion of a rule, but also all but DARES a club to defy their authority. :angry:

I've said it before: I am not at all opposed to a noise rule. I completely agree that we need to govern our volume in the interest of maintaining a "good neighbor" status around our ponds. The problem lies in the fact that the noise cannot be measured in the manner it is being prescribed. PERIOD. I've been there. I've seen it with my own eyes. There are just too many variables that cannot be accounted for. Omni-directional, Uni-directional, cheap, expensive, calibrated, whatever. You're pissing in the wind trying to accurately measure sound at fifty feet in an open air environment. Ain't gonna happen.

As soon as we figure out what we're dealing with, then, and ONLY THEN, can we begin to think about enforcement.

I personally applaud ANY club who renounces the rule as it is currently stated, and would encourage others to do the same. If we let bad things happen, we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Tom,

The Revolutionary War was a "Nasty Fight". Teeth were gnashed. Bullets flew. Rivers ran red. This great country was born.

While I don't think we need to start cleaning our rifles, I DO think this needs to be discussed. In depth. Heated if need be. SOON.

I'm done on this until an open floor is declared for this to be discussed.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[piper_chuck]

I think the organization is being harmed not by trying to implement meaningful rules, but by people who appear to be hell bent to stir up trouble, or who want to push every possible loophole to the max, or who want to blow a problem into more than it really is. A while back, a muffler rule was passed. Creative people figured out how to build "mufflers" that met the letter of the rules, one must use a muffler, but not the spirit, mufflers should make the boat quieter. To fix this problem, we said mufflers don't matter any more, just get your boat below a certain decibel level. I wonder how much of the opposition to the new rule is because there's no way to be creative? Gone is the concept of a token muffler that does nothing to quiet the boat down. Instead, there's a device that puts every racer on an equal footing.

It's been said many times during these discussions that the people who follow the spirit of this initiative, quiet down our boats, will encounter no problem with the new rule. OTOH, those who want to push the limit stand a good chance of being over the limit. Is it possible for the measurement to be a little off? Possibly, but if the rule says 92 db and you've got your boat below 88, small measurement variations aren't going to matter.

When I started running planes and boats some 25+ years ago, there were some people who seemed to find enjoyment from having the loudest boat/plane. To them it didn't matter how fellow R/Cers felt. It also didn't matter what impact their loud planes/boats had on the people who lived near the field/pond. In the intervening years, many a field/pond has been lost due to our toys being louder than they need be. In spite of these losses, I still encounter people at the field and at the pond who run WAY LOUDER THAN NEED BE. What's it going to take for people to wake up and realize that an aggressive noise reduction is one of several important things we need to do to protect our sites?

 

[sport hydro]

I agree with Piper. The problem is not the noise rule or how to enforce it. It is the few people who don't want to quiet their boats that complain. Any rule that is implemented is hard to get worded right to please everyone. Don't blame the leadership. Last year, those same few complained that the board was not doing enough to get a rule in place and now that they did, they complain that the rule will drive people away from the hobby.

Here in D4, we have always tried to get our boats quiet not because of any rule, but because we run the risk of losing our race sites. Boats don't have to be loud to be fast. We have one boater who has one of the quickest 40 mono's in the district and runs a home made muffler that is so quiet that you cannot hear his boat if there are other boats running at the same time. Yes, some will say they need to hear their boat to know if its running good. Thats what testing is for, not race days.

To keep the hobby alive, we need to be construtive in our efforts to do what ever we can to support and grow the IMPBA and not be destructive and negitive all the time. Bashing people and always saying what can't be done is what is destroying the hobby and turning new members away.

As far as meeting 92db in other than ideal test conditions, are you going to tell that DNR person who shows up with his meter and says its too loud and shuts the race down, he can't to that.

I'm done.

Ed Krumnow

member D4

 

[SayMikey]

I think the organization is being harmed not by trying to implement meaningful rules, but by people who appear to be hell bent to stir up trouble, or who want to push every possible loophole to the max, or who want to blow a problem into more than it really is. A while back, a muffler rule was passed. Creative people figured out how to build "mufflers" that met the letter of the rules, one must use a muffler, but not the spirit, mufflers should make the boat quieter. To fix this problem, we said mufflers don't matter any more, just get your boat below a certain decibel level. I wonder how much of the opposition to the new rule is because there's no way to be creative? Gone is the concept of a token muffler that does nothing to quiet the boat down. Instead, there's a device that puts every racer on an equal footing.
It's been said many times during these discussions that the people who follow the spirit of this initiative, quiet down our boats, will encounter no problem with the new rule. OTOH, those who want to push the limit stand a good chance of being over the limit. Is it possible for the measurement to be a little off? Possibly, but if the rule says 92 db and you've got your boat below 88, small measurement variations aren't going to matter.

When I started running planes and boats some 25+ years ago, there were some people who seemed to find enjoyment from having the loudest boat/plane. To them it didn't matter how fellow R/Cers felt. It also didn't matter what impact their loud planes/boats had on the people who lived near the field/pond. In the intervening years, many a field/pond has been lost due to our toys being louder than they need be. In spite of these losses, I still encounter people at the field and at the pond who run WAY LOUDER THAN NEED BE. What's it going to take for people to wake up and realize that an aggressive noise reduction is one of several important things we need to do to protect our sites?

Has anybody ever tried wet exhaust? Noise is a issue for sure, but then again you will have those who argue for the purpose of doing it. The facts are this. IF THEY JUST MAKE THE RULING...WE FOLLOW OR DONT RACE...pretty simple. This hobby is full of choices...you only have to make them. When horsepower, fuel, and testosterone mix....bad things happen...LOL

Guys the latest rule was voted in by the district directors,only two districts voted no. Maybe someone should start a poll indicating IMPBA#,district and a yes or no vote? I know the current rule is a burden to all clubs and members,we had a meter out saturday until the rain came. After that we put it away,on Sunday it was kind of rainy all day and it stayed put away. Sure enough someone complained even with a 15 member club we could not baby sit the meter. Oh and by the way on the last round at least one person ran a nitro unmuffled pipe it was of coures the last round and a warning would have meant nothing. Mike

 

[Chris Wood]

Well dispite what a some say is good and others say is not.. The rule needs address in my opinion..

I have said it before just like brad.. I am not apposed to the rule.. I am aposed to the fact there is no good way to go about it.. Let alone Prove to me that you have a IMBIASED person on the meter. and get constant ways of operation from site to site..

As for the people that say it is not a problem, or people are trying to get around it.. I could have used there infinat wisdom when i was at HOME DEPOT AT EVANSVILLE LOOKING for some ELECTRICAL BOX PARTS to use as i cut apart a pipe to make a MUFFLER for the nats.. even thought i was below the limit at other sites as well as my own.

prove to me it is imbiased, and equal from person to person and i will by it..

chris