Engine Question

[AndyBrown]

Andy, Thanks for the info. The RPM rods were great, and bushings work fine on the 21s. The RPM rods were a definite upgrade to the factory aluminum bushed rods, but at that time, needle bearing rods were not the norm. Technology advancement has shown that the steel/needle bearing rods are very reliable on the larger engines. I have a ton of 67 bushing type aluminum rods that have oval big ends or spun bushings. It's just the nature of the beast. One slight lean run, and the bushings go bye-bye. The needle bearings will also fail (or the P/S) on a lean run, but the bushing in the bottom of the rod seems to fail first. Would it be possible to keep the crank pin dia (or crank bearing layout), and the rod length the same, so that the rod (and maybe crank) could be upgraded to needle bearing style? That might be the best of both worlds. And keeping the rods/crank design common might reduce overall costs. Maybe sell the steel rod version with a $25~$35 premium. That is still ~$100 less than the MAC67, and would pretty much gut the CMB stranglehold on the market. Just a thought.
I love the concept of a billet case, much better material properties than a casting. And no casting tooling, or casting defects. I assume it would be a 1 piece case, correct?

I think you have a winner here. Build them, and they will come. I think $350 is a great price point, and just the ticket for a CMB competitor. It could be the Picco/CMB Green head replacement of choice. Any thought of expanding this concept to 45 and 80 sizes as well?

"Any thought of expanding this concept to 45 and 80 sizes as well?"

Without a doubt!

And yes I will maintain consistant pin diameters so rods will interchange.

 

[DaveMarles]

This brings me to the question. Would a good solid performing engine that was moderately priced help bring back the numbers in Nitro racing?
I'm thinking of an aluminum rod, Picco style drum, medium sized carb, straight forward porting, yet with good solid reliable performance out of the box for about $350 for a .67 engine.

Any thoughts?

That would be your best seller..

Dave

 

[HOOTERS Racing]

but what about the mac .21 outboard top motor but parts iv got a new powerhead

but im not in a rush to use it cause of parts and would a .45 o/b power head be

worth doing just my 2c

cheers ian

 

[Ian Inverarity]

While I'm working out the final details of making replacement parts for MAC engines I'm begining to think again about the fine details of the A/A Pro which will be a very high end engine that will also come with a high price tag.Currently the high cost of the only nitro engine availible is putting pressure on the finances of many nitro boaters.

This brings me to the question. Would a good solid performing engine that was moderately priced help bring back the numbers in Nitro racing?

I'm thinking of an aluminum rod, Picco style drum, medium sized carb, straight forward porting, yet with good solid reliable performance out of the box for about $350 for a .67 engine.

Any thoughts?

Andy,

You are talking about adding a 3rd range of engines when you havent released the first two ranges yet? :huh: Or would this new range be the first released? I do think such a range would sell well. But would they help bring the numbers back to nitro racing, that is a more complicated question. How about starting a poll on Jim's to see if the ex-nitro racers who now run gas would come back with cheaper nitro engines. Here I see many new guys with gas boats because they are easy to run and keep running. Maybe the reason gas engines are easy to run needs to be looked at and adopted in nitro?

Ian.

 

[Don Ferrette]

......... I do think such a range would sell well. But would they help bring the numbers back to nitro racing, that is a more complicated question. How about starting a poll on Jim's to see if the ex-nitro racers who now run gas would come back with cheaper nitro engines. Here I see many new guys with gas boats because they are easy to run and keep running. Maybe the reason gas engines are easy to run needs to be looked at and adopted in nitro?

Ian that is an interesting point but I will say this, gas used to be cheaper and easier to run but I can't say that is still the case, the only thing cheaper anymore is the fuel. If you want to run up front & be competitive now in gas a modded G260 will set you back $600-800 (this does not include the very few who can mod the motors themselves), tuned pipe with water cooled manifold adds another $200-300 so you've already spent $800-1100 and you don't even have a hull to put it in yet. Now that these motors are getting highly modified they can be just as finicky as nitro in some cases if not more so, I've seen experienced racers spend an entire weekend trying to figure out why their gas motor won't run right. There is a host of other things that can and will fail not found in nitro like your spark ignition components, carb isolator blocks, water cooled manifold & pipe O rings not to mention that if you dunk one at speed & ingest water you generally bend the crank and sometimes blow the jug off the case. I run both & I enjoy both but it is really now just a matter of what fuel goes in the tank that makes the difference, each has it's ups & downs but the idea of a $350 competitive & consistent .67 motor sure sounds good to me. B)

 

[Ian Inverarity]

Don,

I agree, I didnt say gas was cheaper or more reliable. I said it is easier. B)

What makes gas engines easy to run is the carbs. The proof of this is try to run a gas engine where the carb has been incorrectly modified and it is rubbish. If nitro engines had similarly sophisticated carbs they might be just as user friendly.....

Ian.

 

[AndyBrown]

To answer some questions. I'm currently working on MAC parts and getting closer to releasing some. In the end there will be complete MAC engines again. Engine #1 .

As I get these parts set up it is not difficult to make variations for a different type of engine as some set-ups will be common.

As everyone has noted, this standard type of engine would be very popular. There are many uses for it where a MAC will not fit. Engine #2.

I have exciting plans for the high end A/A Pro. It will have features that have never been used in r/c enignes and will also feature some of those "unobtainum" type materials. This is a project I want to do weather very many sell or not. Engine #3.

Also the key to growing Nitro is not really cheaper so much as having engines and pipes, the complete combination, that work great straight from the box.

The pipe/engine combination is a very important key to making this great relaible perfomance straight from the box a successful reality.

Good boating,

Andy

P.S.

I'm even thinking about a new 15cc FSR-V engine for Dave!

 

[Don Ferrette]

Don,
I agree, I didnt say gas was cheaper or more reliable. I said it is easier. B)

What makes gas engines easy to run is the carbs. The proof of this is try to run a gas engine where the carb has been incorrectly modified and it is rubbish. If nitro engines had similarly sophisticated carbs they might be just as user friendly.....

Ian.

Well I can't really agree with you on the carb thing, I see it as just the opposite. A nitro carb is pretty basic, a rotating barrel, a spray bar & a needle. If someone screws up a nitro carb so bad it won't run then they really shouldn't be modding stuff in the first place. Now on the other hand, we keep complete new spare ready to go gas carbs because often they get to the point of it's easier to replace them than try to repair them (most of the time they are not really repairable). You need to service them regularly, keep the internal screens (that you can get to) clean & replace the pump diaphragm every couple races. Hmmm, can't really remember the last time I replaced the pump diaphragm on my MAC84's. :lol: :lol: :lol: Just kidding but you get the point, it's all relative these days.

 

[AndyBrown]

Don,
I agree, I didnt say gas was cheaper or more reliable. I said it is easier. B)

What makes gas engines easy to run is the carbs. The proof of this is try to run a gas engine where the carb has been incorrectly modified and it is rubbish. If nitro engines had similarly sophisticated carbs they might be just as user friendly.....

Ian.

Yes Ian, The "nitro fuel system" is a part of the issue. For nitro, this "fuel system" includes the tank, the needle valve, the pipe pressure (which varies from pipe to pipe), and the carb itself. So when someone builds a boat and buys an engine there are many different variables that will have a big effect.

One other factor is that nitro is highly effected by humidity compared to gasoline and until boaters understand that effect they will have some difficulties in making consistant runs.

 

[DaveMarles]

To answer some questions. I'm currently working on MAC parts and getting closer to releasing some. In the end there will be complete MAC engines again. Engine #1 .
As I get these parts set up it is not difficult to make variations for a different type of engine as some set-ups will be common.

As everyone has noted, this standard type of engine would be very popular. There are many uses for it where a MAC will not fit. Engine #2.

I have exciting plans for the high end A/A Pro. It will have features that have never been used in r/c enignes and will also feature some of those "unobtainum" type materials. This is a project I want to do weather very many sell or not. Engine #3.

Also the key to growing Nitro is not really cheaper so much as having engines and pipes, the complete combination, that work great straight from the box.

The pipe/engine combination is a very important key to making this great relaible perfomance straight from the box a successful reality.

Good boating,

Andy

P.S.

I'm even thinking about a new 15cc FSR-V engine for Dave!

Only if I can fit a twin cone plug head to it

and not a short stroke. :angry:

Dave

 

[piper_chuck]

Don,
I agree, I didnt say gas was cheaper or more reliable. I said it is easier. B)

What makes gas engines easy to run is the carbs. The proof of this is try to run a gas engine where the carb has been incorrectly modified and it is rubbish. If nitro engines had similarly sophisticated carbs they might be just as user friendly.....

Ian.

Well I can't really agree with you on the carb thing, I see it as just the opposite. A nitro carb is pretty basic, a rotating barrel, a spray bar & a needle. If someone screws up a nitro carb so bad it won't run then they really shouldn't be modding stuff in the first place. Now on the other hand, we keep complete new spare ready to go gas carbs because often they get to the point of it's easier to replace them than try to repair them (most of the time they are not really repairable). You need to service them regularly, keep the internal screens (that you can get to) clean & replace the pump diaphragm every couple races. Hmmm, can't really remember the last time I replaced the pump diaphragm on my MAC84's. :lol: :lol: :lol: Just kidding but you get the point, it's all relative these days.

Perhaps the point being made is that for many, at least those who don't "over-tinker", the mixture for the gas carbs can be set and then left alone. OTOH, the nitro mixture can need tweaking as often as each heat. Getting the needle set right on a nitro engine has proven to be a challenge for many. A third channel helps, but that adds to the complexity.

Anyway, back to Andy's original question, a moderately priced engine line would be great.

 

[BigChuck]

ANDY................KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!!

An ADJUSTMENT of the picco motors and you are GOOOD to GO!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[AndyBrown]

ANDY................KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!!
An ADJUSTMENT of the picco motors and you are GOOOD to GO!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Chuck, That's what I have in mind!

Mr. Marles, I'll be sure to meet all of your requirements!

 

[NITROSNIFER]

I know this is a long shot but Andy pretty please could you build me some parts for my Picco's???? :lol: :lol: I'll even scrape off the P on them and use a marker to put M A C on the side, No one will know really :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[dschigoda]

Andy,

A cheaper racing engine line sounds like a great idea! It would likely boost the sales of your pipes, hardware, parts and upgrades too. These are "complementary goods" - for example, if you can sell more potatochips you can sell more beer, and if you can sell more beer you can sell more potatochips.

I am confused on one point - your MAC .67 engine is listed on your website at $409.95. Is this still the price you plan to sell them for? If so, $350 is not that much cheaper for the cheaper design you proposed.

I agree with what you are thinking about selling resonably priced, user friendly "engine-pipe-fuel systems" that are easy operate.

Thanks.

Dave

 

[anthony_marquart]

Maybe someday we could even get a good .12...

 

[RaceMechaniX]

Andy,

A reduced cost, mid performance engine is a great idea as others have voiced. I am sure with good matieral choices an aluminum rod/bushed combo is fairly safe and altough wear might be higher it will be offset by the reduced cost of replacement. Hats off to you guys for making the effort to keep the nitro side of the hobby going strong.

Tyler

 

[Duck899]

Any engine coming from CMD has my support ($$$$$$$)......we need choices!

 

[DAN MCCORMICK]

ANDY: Now that you have worked yourself into the position of altering the direction of the market,What needs do the model boat demand the most for their glow engines ,A GOOD CARB. Why don,t you make a generic carb that meets all needs of all racers. How about a carb that does the following:

Standard carb package:

----------------------------

1. Bolt on o-ring mount standard rotating barrel with Removeable large bellmouth snap in venteri for high rpm users. Cam lock Standard on all AB engines.

2. options package- additional costs

----------------------------

A. Smaller snap in bellmouth venteris for high torque users .

B. Screw in low end needle valve ( for users who want low acceleration like scale boats)

c. Screw in third channel (onboard or remote)

D. Oversized neck bushing for other applications

E. Banjo fuel fitting for 360 degrees fuel applications

F. Mounting bolts with holes in the head to wire lock the bolts from loosing.

G. interchangable angled intake venteris for odd ball applications due to water intake and cowls.

H. generic mounted adapter plates

I. Removable air filters if needed.

Yes Andy I know the extra engineering,tooling and labor hours but if the end user is willing to pay extra and its profitable to you it will be a carb second to none,met all the driver needs and never need to buy another carb again carb. Add up all the carbs the boater has boughten for a certain application and it is more then if your charged $100 for the carb and $100 for the options package.

Hope this helps- DAN PS- Yes it will fit the needs of the car,airplane,boat and heli users. World Markets.

 

[Marty Davis]

Needed BADLY !!!

I am running out of parts to keep my 2 MAC 21's runnning. I am probably one of the few who are still running the MAC 21's. Seems like many people are re-visiting the Nova Rossi's if they don't want to spend the $$$ for the CMB's.

The Nitro classes are DYING around the Florida area because of the lack of engine choices.

Marty Davis