Used Engines

[Bill Schaare]

Hey gang. Just getting into boats. Have flown rc for a decade but never really got into nitro. Went from electrics to gas engines. I have 2 questions.
1) I have a 1/8 172 kit coming from ML Boatworks this week. Have been looking at used 67 size engines to get started. What should I expect to pay for a good used example of a CMP or OPS in this size? Are there others I should look at? Realize this question may be opening a can of worms.
2) I purchased an Aquacraft Miss Vegas with an 18 nitro engine to get my feet wet. I for the life of me can't get this started. Have fresh 15% fuel and new glow plugs which have been tested. Getting fuel to the carb. Ran needle valve closed and backed off about 1.5 turns. Played with it more closed/more open. Using a fitting I made for an electric drill to start. Not sure of rpm's on drill but seems fast enough. What kind of rpm's should I need? Is there anything I'm missing? Appreciate the help. -Bill

 

[Danny King]

Cmb 67 is the best choice good ones come along often $400 and up.
Are you sure your spinning the .18 in the right direction?

 

[Grimracer]

Drill will not be fast enough. Set the needle at 2.5 turns and try again!

 

[Will slagel]

For a Cmb 67 that's in good shape 350$ to 425$
So with your no start boat. Is it popping at like it wants to start? First thing I would look at is to make sure you got a good igniter. Can you send a pics of what you're working with. Also nitro seems really low. I would start with a 30% with 18% oil.
Also check rotation of the motor. Those .18 Budweiser boats should have a good pinch almost at TDC if not might have a bad motor. Also I'm a greenhorn but there's a gentleman on here he goes bye Wasted Wages. He's always willing to lend his brain. Has helped me more than I can count. His real name is Frank. If you need a good motor I would start with asking him. He's more then willing to help people get into the sport.

Will

 

[Wasted wages]

If it's an original Miss Vegas,, it should have been a pull start motor... can you give more detail on your drill motor starting setup?

With decent nitro, a good plug and hot ignitor, even an old worn out motor should at least bench start or try to run....
A few drops of fuel in the glow plug hole and a hot plug, it should at least pop!

As others said, make sure you are turning in the proper direction....

 

[Bill Schaare]

Guys thanks for the info on engine prices. Will give me a reliable starting point. As far as the Miss Vegas engine, it has a pull start but the cogs inside don't always engage properly. Hence the attempts with drill. Have tried a corded Milwaukee and a cordless Dewalt set on the higher speed/lower torque setting. Assuming the proper rotation is counter-clockwise when viewed from collet side of engine like an rc airplane. Will S, can you explain "pinch", remember Nitro Newbie here. LOL Appreciate your help.

 

[Will slagel]

Not a problem Bill. When you crank the motor over bye hand. Right as the piston is about to reach Top Dead Center it should become almost impossible to turn over. It's just an easy way to tell the condition of the sleeve and piston. Sometimes on new motors the pinch is so good you have to loosen the glow plug like 1 turn to let some of the air out. Then after starting tighten it back up.

I have gotten motors off of eBay that have no pinch what so ever. When that happens the motors are usually way under power due to blow bye.

If the motor you're having problems with has a good pinch and still not getting any popping out of it. I would look at the glow plug and ignitor.
Wasted wages shared how he starts his boats and I must say so far it works like a charm. I took a mechanics glove that I had laying around. I ran a positive wire to the thumb and a grinding wire to the palm of the glove so when I start my boat you use one hand on the top of the motor. My thumb on top of the glow plug so when I hold it down it completes the circuit and glow plug is ready to go. I only ended up doing that cause I went through 3 igniters in like 4 months and since doing the glove trick I haven't even had to charge my battery yet.
Boats are a different animal I wouldn't run anything less then 30% nitro with an oil mixture. 15% isn't enough for boats. Rc cars sure. It's hard to find fuel here in Arizona.a good place to get it from is Al Hobbs. Just put his name in the search box. I'm running a stock Double Aces 45 I. My sgx rigger. I have always run 40% nitro with 18% castor oil in my boat.

Sorry for the Novel.
Will

I added a couple picks of what I was talking about with my igniter. The battery is like 18$ at any batteries plus.

 

[Wasted wages]

Will, you actually made one!!!
I'm impressed!

Works great, doesn't it !!

I made one a long time ago to start twins with, it cuts down on a lot of hand motion, and trying to get clips or ignitors, wires and crap out of the way, plus helps steady the boat when pulling up on the starter...

And those cyclon batteries are the cats azz!

 

[Will slagel]

Hey Frank,

Of course I made one. lol it's a great idea. I was thinking you should patten it. Not sure if that's the correct spelling. lol it works like a charm. I've only got to use it a couple times. I wanted to make sure I won't have any issues that could be avoided on my first time out I'm so close I can taste the water before I can I want to change the steering servo. The one that's in there is to tall and rubs and binds a little. I don't know the correct term for them but I need one that's a midget. Or maybe the proper term is shorter. I don't want to offend anybody. lol The servo is 1 1/2 tall then the gear comes out. I need one an inch or under the reason I need it is cause one of the previous owners took an 1/8 inch thick 2"x3" piece of maple I believe and epoxied it into the bottom of the hull so they could mount the servo.

So Frank when I'm breaking in the
Motor on the bench the Aces 45 what should be the proper temp of the motor? Also is it better to vary the rpm a little or just let it be and run the fuel out? I have only been running 30% through it and about 14 once's at a time. I have run about 5 tanks through it. You think that's enough?!

 

[Wasted wages]

With 5 tanks run thru it, I'm sure it's loosened up enough for now....

your not really loading the motor at this point, unless you have an airplane prop or something like that attached... your just running fuel thru the motor..

Once at the pond and you run the boat, that's when the piston and liner under load will expand and get to know each other better.
Run it rich to start out and every tank lean on it a click or two...vary the speed for a few tanks... watch for the smoke out of the pipe all the way around the course.. keep an eye on the plug when you bring it in... if it's dull and anodized looking or mangled, it's too lean.

Watch for water discharge from the head too all around the course.. some rudders will stop watering with left trim in the straightaway, if yours does it, you need to correct it quickly.

Temps will vary, and it's hard to say exactly what is the right temp, but safely...around 200 degrees max. when the boat hits the shoreline....

I've never even checked mine during break-in,,, if it's sizzling when you pick it up out of the water....it's probably a little too lean !!

Some motors, like the OPS .67's.... yeah, the heads will be smoking hot.. those, I feel the crankcase for temp.

 

[Wasted wages]

The servo is 1 1/2 tall then the gear comes out. I need one an inch or under the reason I need it is cause one of the previous owners took an 1/8 inch thick 2"x3" piece of maple I believe and epoxied it into the bottom of the hull so they could mount the servo.

Any room in the box to lay it on its side ?
Just make sure the replacement servo has enough torque to do the job... maybe others can weigh in on what servo is good for your hull... there a lot of good servos being sold these days...very compact and powerful..

 

[Will slagel]

Hey Frank,

I thought about that laying it on its side. It actually brings up something I wanted your thoughts on. The arm the connects to the servo. Has 3 or 4 holes in them. So I'm my head, farther out you mount your steering rods on. The farther they travel and faster. When you mount closes to the gear you loose distance and speed right??? Or am I totally backwards on my thoughts?

I can make it work if I mount in the middle of the arm and lay the servo sideway. Then grind down about .100 thousand off of the arm I have no binding issues.

What are your thoughts??

Thanks. Frank.

Will

 

[Grimracer]

Maybe some info here..

Grim

 

[Wasted wages]

Closer to the shaft gives more torque and less travel... further out less torque and more travel.

As long as you have enough rudder deflection in the middle holes to reach your end points, I would do that and grind off the clearance you need...

 

[Will slagel]

Closer to the shaft gives more torque and less travel... further out less torque and more travel.

As long as you have enough rudder deflection in the middle holes to reach your end points, I would do that and grind off the clearance you need...

Cool thanks Frank. "Grins" video was informational but didn't touch on what I asked. Ok since you brought it up the rudder. My next question was? How much do you want The rudder to move 30* less or more? What's a good starting point?

Thanks again like always Frank.

Will

 

[Will slagel]

Maybe some info here..

Grim

That had a lot of info I didn't know so thanks Grim. Awhile back you had a video about the Futaba pv3 in reference to binding. I can't find it could you send that to me. ?

Thank you
Will

 

[Wasted wages]

Cool thanks Frank. "Grins" video was informational but didn't touch on what I asked. Ok since you brought it up the rudder. My next question was? How much do you want The rudder to move 30* less or more? What's a good starting point?

Thanks again like always Frank.

Will

Full stroke as your end points will allow for initial setup, and trim with the radio as needed, you may be surprised how little deflection it takes to turn a rigger at speed.

But,, I personally like to have full throw available for emergency reasons....
Some radios allow you to "soften" the area around neutral and then exponentially increase the throw if you really need to crank it in an emergency...

 

[Grimracer]

That had a lot of info I didn't know so thanks Grim. Awhile back you had a video about the Futaba pv3 in reference to binding. I can't find it could you send that to me. ?

Thank you
Will

Not sure what one that might be...

Maybe this one


Or

 

[Bill Schaare]

Hey gang. Have not had a chance to try to get Miss Vegas engine started. Been busy with work and deer season has started here in Michigan. Have a question as to what the majority of you are using for starters for your boats? Haven't needed a starter in a while since most of my rc planes are hand started. Are you using the Tower/Hobbico style 12v starters or are you using the bigger 12v-18v starters? What is a good source for whatever you're using? Appreciate your input.-Bill

 

[Wasted wages]

Hey gang. Have not had a chance to try to get Miss Vegas engine started. Been busy with work and deer season has started here in Michigan. Have a question as to what the majority of you are using for starters for your boats? Haven't needed a starter in a while since most of my rc planes are hand started. Are you using the Tower/Hobbico style 12v starters or are you using the bigger 12v-18v starters? What is a good source for whatever you're using? Appreciate your input.-Bill

Sullivan dynatron....you won't be disappointed. Put an aftermarket handle on it, run it off 24v and it will start anything out there.