x440 vs 1440

[chriscrash]

Can anyone tell me the set-up changes that are required to get a 1440 to produce speed compared to an x440. I am running an x440 currently with impressive speed, but not mind blowing. I thought I would try the Grim 1440 prop that Mark Sholund sold me, but I just can't get the speed out of it. Whenever I put it on the boat it loses about 5-10 mph in speed. I haven't changed the motor height, motor angle, or needle yet. I run the motor about 1/8" above bottom of hull and motor angle is neutral.

Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[topfuel443]

5-10mph is a big difference. What boat hull, engine, pipe combo is it with? Is it turning the RPM, but not going anywhere or is it loosing RPM as well? Like the engine is too loaded?

~James

 

[Dan Hydro]

Here's what I know so far,

they both have the same diameter and the same pitch, the X440 is a moderate medium lift general purpose and the 1440 series is a moderate high lift prop for hydro's and deep V's.

 

[Jerry Wyss]

Well, I have gotten 1440 B/C's from Mark before and I asked for a "spread" of 4 to use on two

different O/B motors, the XM (stock) and the Mac on a XM Lower.

There was only two choices in cup, 3.21 and 3.33 and the diameters were from 39 down to the 36mm area.

For the XM (with the shim out) only responded well to the two smaller Dia props,, neither engine

liked the larger Dia props with that amount of cup in them. I would imagine that if we had less

cup in the larger Dia units (2.9 or so) they would have worked better.

I did notice that the props that worked would cavitate for about 10 feet and go. The two props

were 37.14mm dia and 36.83,, the cup had been smudged off both bags so we don't know what

they were respectfully but they were 3.21 and 3.33

The propshaft was centerline with the bottom of the TS2 hull, nuetral thrust. I must say here that

the XM didn't get into it's "warp zone" until I richened up the needle 7 or 8 clicks and pulled the

water off and found the needle setting after a few runs where it took off. We ended up 4 clicks

richer from where it was with the water on. The heat gun reading was in the 200*F area just after

pulling the boat outa the water. Ya'll should listen to the car guy's about what head temp they run,

it's usually between 190 and 225* and thats what I'm seeing with the 3.5o/b's I run.

 

[shoboat]

Chris,

The 1440 B/C may need a tune up. We are finding some new issues with the propeller and we are working the blades

different now than before. If you are running an O.S. motor send the propeller back to me and I will fix it for free.

I think you will need to set up the motor height and angle a little different for the 1440 B/C though. I am not a tunnel

racer so I will let someone else tell you what to do. I know the motor sounds to loaded if you are losing that much speed.

Most of the 1440's are running into the 50's with the right set up.

Jerry,

Jeff will have a new one to test in a day or two, and keep me posted on the results. With more testing and different

set up changes we are learning more about the 1440 B/C. Too much cup is killing the speed of the propeller so we

just need to back them down a little more. If you need them updated just send them over. :lol:

Good Luck Testing,

Mark Sholund

 

[Scott Wadlow]

Can anyone tell me the set-up changes that are required to get a 1440 to produce speed compared to an x440. I am running an x440 currently with impressive speed, but not mind blowing. I thought I would try the Grim 1440 prop that Mark Sholund sold me, but I just can't get the speed out of it. Whenever I put it on the boat it loses about 5-10 mph in speed. I haven't changed the motor height, motor angle, or needle yet. I run the motor about 1/8" above bottom of hull and motor angle is neutral.
Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

I HAD TROUBLE PULLING THAT PROP ON ME VILLIAN WITH A K&B SX BLACK HEAD SO I TOOK THE HEAD CLEARANCE DOWN TO ABOUT .006 AND NOW SHE IS A SCREAMER

 

[chriscrash]

Thanks for the replies guys. Mark, please PM me your address again and I will get them to you. I have three of the exact same prop. I really appreciate your help with these props.

I am running a custom tunnel hull with the OS outboard. It is a sport motor with some mods.

Scott I still have that TS2 if you want it.

Thanks to everyone for the input.

Chris

 

[Tim_Duggan]

I've found that generally I have to run the 1440's deeper than the X series props other wise they don't hook up properly.

Also - the OS does work with the cupped 1440 as log as the T/E cup is kept low 2.8"- 3.2"

 

[Grimracer]

Funny... I find that I have to run the 1440s higher or the boat will stuff on lauch or the hull will vent coming out of the corners.

grim

 

[Tim_Duggan]

Seriously? I've never seen stuffing on launches except for Villains, and that was launch technique. I'm not doubting you man - (never would) but thats totally opposite to what I have been getting - maybe it's 'cos I'm "down under" - toilet swirls the other way etc. etc.

First cupped 1440 for O/B's I got was an Anderson cupped one I got from my bud TunnelBill, and he suggested that I lower the motor with it. Well being the wise-a55 I am I just had to try it without lowering it and thought to myself - man this prop sucks! Lowered it like I should have done in the first place and holy s#it - what a difference!

I've tried this swap on at least six different boats and always ended up lower than the X series or I got bouncing and prop blow-out in the straights which washed off speed...... both "sport" and piped boats too. The 1440 has a lot more L/E pitch than the X440 or M440, and L/E pitch = speed but it also = lift.

I set the height by starting low & raising it until I get porpoising/ and venting in the straights which washes off speed, then back it down a tad from there. Using that method I usually end up 1/16" to 1/8" lower with the 1440's and going faster.... but I really prefer to heat race with the X series or the ABC 40x53 as they are more heat race friendly and less likely to DNF. Definately slower than 1440's tho'.

 

[Jerry Wyss]

Chris,
Jerry,

Jeff will have a new one to test in a day or two, and keep me posted on the results. With more testing and different

set up changes we are learning more about the 1440 B/C. Too much cup is killing the speed of the propeller so we

just need to back them down a little more. If you need them updated just send them over. :lol:

Good Luck Testing,

Mark Sholund

Mark,

The greater cup in the smaller diameter works great , anything in the 38mm range would have to be 2.7 to 2.9 cup

area, I would think,, course we would have to raise the motor up a little for the larger diameter. We're at centerline

of the propshaft now with these little guy's which seems perdy deep but it works. It's amazing how well behaved the

TS2 is when it goes fast compared to having the wrong prop on going slower,, did'ja git that? <_<

Jerry

 

[FlyinFinn]

Seriously? I've never seen stuffing on launches except for Villains, and that was launch technique. I'm not doubting you man - (never would) but thats totally opposite to what I have been getting - maybe it's 'cos I'm "down under" - toilet swirls the other way etc. etc.
First cupped 1440 for O/B's I got was an Anderson cupped one I got from my bud TunnelBill, and he suggested that I lower the motor with it. Well being the wise-a55 I am I just had to try it without lowering it and thought to myself - man this prop sucks! Lowered it like I should have done in the first place and holy s#it - what a difference!

I've tried this swap on at least six different boats and always ended up lower than the X series or I got bouncing and prop blow-out in the straights which washed off speed...... both "sport" and piped boats too. The 1440 has a lot more L/E pitch than the X440 or M440, and L/E pitch = speed but it also = lift.

I set the height by starting low & raising it until I get porpoising/ and venting in the straights which washes off speed, then back it down a tad from there. Using that method I usually end up 1/16" to 1/8" lower with the 1440's and going faster.... but I really prefer to heat race with the X series or the ABC 40x53 as they are more heat race friendly and less likely to DNF. Definately slower than 1440's tho'.

Hey Tim, I agree, you definitely have to run the 1440 a little deeper than the X-series props. I run a TSII and a stock OS XM (except the headshim is out and no water running through it). I started with the X440, M440, X637, and X640. I could run all of those props higher than the 1440. I have also noticed that a slight negative thrust angle works well with the X-series, but not so with the 1440. The 1440, if ran too high, will propoise badly. With negative thrust angle the 1440 will porpoise badly when slowing in the turns. Get the 1440 down in the water, since it wants to lift itself, and everything it is attached to, right out of the water! The 1440 is just ballistic and very smooth once the set-up is found! I just recieved a 39 mm 1440 with 2.57" cup from Sholund. Haven't tested it yet, but it just may work. The props Jerry is having me run are smaller diameter with more cup than the one I received from Sholund. Hey, I just love an excuse to go back to the pond for more testing! Yee Hah! :lol:

 

[Scott Wadlow]

Thanks for the replies guys. Mark, please PM me your address again and I will get them to you. I have three of the exact same prop. I really appreciate your help with these props.
I am running a custom tunnel hull with the OS outboard. It is a sport motor with some mods.

Scott I still have that TS2 if you want it.

Thanks to everyone for the input.

Chris

i might get that ts2 from you when i conme out to your race at the winery.

 

[Jerry Wyss]

I just recieved a 39 mm 1440 with 2.54" cup from Sholund. Haven't tested it yet, but it just may work. Yee Hah! :lol:

Well thats interesting, kinda like artillery, gonna get a bracket going. Well Finn ya wanted to learn about

props and your gettin' quite a collection fast, good deal!

JW

 

[FlyinFinn]

Can anyone tell me the set-up changes that are required to get a 1440 to produce speed compared to an x440. I am running an x440 currently with impressive speed, but not mind blowing. I thought I would try the Grim 1440 prop that Mark Sholund sold me, but I just can't get the speed out of it. Whenever I put it on the boat it loses about 5-10 mph in speed. I haven't changed the motor height, motor angle, or needle yet. I run the motor about 1/8" above bottom of hull and motor angle is neutral.
Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

Drop that prop down 1/8", set thrust angle to zero, retune your motor and pay attention! Your gonna have to be ready for it when it takes off!

 

[dougaldy]

When you say drop it about and 1/8th, where in relation to the bottom of the sponsons

Scott

 

[FlyinFinn]

When you say drop it about and 1/8th, where in relation to the bottom of the sponsons
Scott

Hey Scott,

I'm saying it should be about even with the bottom of the sponsons, not above the bottom of the sponsons.

 

[FlyinFinn]

Seriously? I've never seen stuffing on launches except for Villains, and that was launch technique. I'm not doubting you man - (never would) but thats totally opposite to what I have been getting - maybe it's 'cos I'm "down under" - toilet swirls the other way etc. etc.
First cupped 1440 for O/B's I got was an Anderson cupped one I got from my bud TunnelBill, and he suggested that I lower the motor with it. Well being the wise-a55 I am I just had to try it without lowering it and thought to myself - man this prop sucks! Lowered it like I should have done in the first place and holy s#it - what a difference!

I've tried this swap on at least six different boats and always ended up lower than the X series or I got bouncing and prop blow-out in the straights which washed off speed...... both "sport" and piped boats too. The 1440 has a lot more L/E pitch than the X440 or M440, and L/E pitch = speed but it also = lift.

I set the height by starting low & raising it until I get porpoising/ and venting in the straights which washes off speed, then back it down a tad from there. Using that method I usually end up 1/16" to 1/8" lower with the 1440's and going faster.... but I really prefer to heat race with the X series or the ABC 40x53 as they are more heat race friendly and less likely to DNF. Definately slower than 1440's tho'.

Hey Tim, I agree, you definitely have to run the 1440 a little deeper than the X-series props. I run a TSII and a stock OS XM (except the headshim is out and no water running through it). I started with the X440, M440, X637, and X640. I could run all of those props higher than the 1440. I have also noticed that a slight negative thrust angle works well with the X-series, but not so with the 1440. The 1440, if ran too high, will propoise badly. With negative thrust angle the 1440 will porpoise badly when slowing in the turns. Get the 1440 down in the water, since it wants to lift itself, and everything it is attached to, right out of the water! The 1440 is just ballistic and very smooth once the set-up is found! I just recieved a 39 mm 1440 with 2.57" cup from Sholund. Haven't tested it yet, but it just may work. The props Jerry is having me run are smaller diameter with more cup than the one I received from Sholund. Hey, I just love an excuse to go back to the pond for more testing! Yee Hah! :lol:

OK, a little update on the 2.57" cupped B/C Sholund 1440. I ran it today on glass flat water. The flat water was different than the last test session which had a little more wind and a definite ripple on the water. The Sholund 1440 was ballistic, but porpoised. The other 1440's porpoised also. Nothing was changed other than my servos and receiver. By the way I ran the Futaba 3PKS today and I love it so far! So, I couldn't lower the motor any further as the pushrods hit the top of the transon for the boat. So, I went up 1/16" and added a slight 1/32" negative thrust angle and it was a little better. I added 3/4 ounce of weight in the nose and it ran much better. One thing I noticed about the 1440. Slow speeds make the boat porpoise. When running the 1440, it runs best at WOT! Had to quit messing around, since my Futaba transmitter batteries went too low. I also founf that I had to richen the needle one or two clicks. That's what I know so far. What a great excuse to run the boat , huh?!

 

[Jerry Wyss]

Finn, Did you ever shim your XM mount until the "pin" was vertical? If your porpoising the engines not making

enough revs, even with smooth water. The smaller diameter would have worked better in that situation with raising

the prop up until it bounced and then back down a little. I would think the greater dia prop would shine in water

with more wave action over the smaller dia ones, But get the pin vertical.

You can use a set of automotive type "feeler guage set" that the individual guages will unbolt,, use the thicker ones

stacked up between the transom and the mount (at the bottom) and tightened up until it's vertical. That pin angled

forward or back (at the top) can cause the boat to act up during course corrections and especially in the turns.

JW

 

[FlyinFinn]

Finn, Did you ever shim your XM mount until the "pin" was vertical? If your porposoing the engines not makingenough revs, even with smooth water. The smaller diameter would have worked better in that situation with raising

the prop up until it bounced and then back down a little. I would think the greater dia prop would shine in water

with more wave action over the smaller dia ones, But get the pin vertical.

You can use a set of automotive type "feeler guage set" that the individual guages will unbolt,, use the thicker ones

stacked up between the transom and the mount (at the bottom) and tightened up until it's vertical. That pin angled

forward or back (at the top) can cause the boat to act up during course corrections and especially in the turns.

JW

Hey Jerry, No, I have not shimmed the motor mount. I'll do that before I go out next time. The smaller diameter props did run better in the smoother water. The larger diameter Sholund prop was ballistic at WOT though! It just didn't handle as well (more porpoising than the smaller props. It seems to me that the 1440 likes a slgiht chop to the water. The chop seems to settle the boat down a little (more air under the boat? less load on the prop?). :blink: