What is wrong with racing ?

[Tim Kish]

After returning to this hobby a couple of years ago I quickly realized some thing had changed

something was different.

No it wasnt the fact that my best friend had given up the racing part of this hobby to persue the perfect 21 Novarossi it was something else.

I thought about this for quite a while and finnally put my finger on what I think it is.

There are just way to many classes now , the competition is so watered down you are lucky to have a full heat of anything , and when you do get a good turnout there is not enough time to race five full heats .

Elmira is good example , I was very supprised that they changed to four heats in order to accomadate all the classes , this was one of the top race sites in North America at one time and is to far for me and many others to travel to for just four heats.

Now before anyone gets upset I am sure there is still some great racing going on but gone are the day's of two and three heats of any given class unless at a regular event unless you are willing to travel to Atlanta or the Internats or other special events.

I can remember going to London and seeing two and three heats of many different classes at a regular event .

District 1 races were no different , If you won your class you actually beat more than a couple boats ,you felt lke you accomplished something.

Now I am not suggesting that the new classes should be removed or that it's anyone's falt but it certainly seems to have watered down the competition , even worse so if you run a class that barely makes a heat.

So I guess my question is , now that we have so many classes in IMPBA do you think it has helped or hurt racing , has it been a good thing or bad.

Like I said I am not pointing fingers or trying to lay blame it is just an observation of what I think has changed in this hobby over the years..

Tim K

 

[Shark]

Tim,

You are correct. A trend that has developed in model boat racing in the last three years is declining participation.

Indeed, there are way too many classes running today. Some districts have imposed rules that require a minimum of entries to make a class for a race and year.

We have spread our resources too far, too thin and reduced the level of competition. Here in my district, our numbers have declined sharply in the last 6 years.

We used to have four separate racing divisions.. Heat Racing, Gas, Outboard & Scale.

(5 years ago)

Heat Racing on a weekend would have close to 150 boats entered.

Outboard on a weekend would have close to 100 boats entered.

Scale on a weekend would have close to 30 boats entered.

Gas on a weekend would have close to 50 boats.

Now in 2006 we have three divisions.

General Heat racing (combination of outboard, scale & inboard), Gasoline. Our heat racing series is lucky to exceed 80 boats COMBINED (outboard /inboard) And our scale division is lucky to get 10 boats entered.

Gasoline seems to be holding and maintaining itself.

Our heats have fallen to 4 boats in a round and sometimes 3 boats per class.

All in All, we have to remember that the racing schedule is still a business, and that business is to promote the hobby and support the respective districts. INCOME, is a big part of a business plan and not "feelings".

The object should be to promote and grow the most popular classes thru competition. Those classes that have fallen behind because of lack of innovation or new products should be eliminated.

Generating income thru competitive ideals will keep a district alive. Centering the racing around the communities that support the hobby is also essential.

The next factor is cost. Respectively, cost has contributed to the decline. Those with big budgets can absorb the higher costs in order to go faster. Those that cant afford to keep up eventually drop out.

In all motorsports, cost vs speed has always been an issue. In each case, the sport implemented change to keep things on an even playing field. One of the things our hobby could do is change the way we keep and award points to racers during a race.

I have suggested this to my district on two separate occasions on separate years and it always seems to get shot down each time, yet, when I get a 3000 point lead in a class, everyone begins to complain about points???

The racing schedule has a first and last race. The object should be to get the same number of boaters to the last race as the first race. As trends show, by the end, participation is down as boaters realize they are out of the points chase, this is normal thinking, but bad for business.

Each district should take steps to keep everyone competitive until the very end and we can do this by changing our point system. Reducing the edge that first place has over 2,3,4,5,6 will keep boaters competitive all year long. Nascar has done this just a few years ago.

This neutralizes the big budget racers advantage and they cannot pull away and win a championship halfway thru a season. Each district is different with respect to class preference. Here, my district could eliminate at least 6 classes without ever feeling the loss. Those in those classes should be encouraged and supported to change to a class with competitve value and support.

The dynamic of 10 to 20 boaters in a class makes for a great racing battle as opposed to 3 guys going to every race to race each other.

Two things must happen to accomplish change, First, we have to admit we are over extended in class offerings. Second, we must collectively encourage participation in those classes that have not only boater support, but manufacturing support and innovation.

We must provide the competitors a opportunity to compete on a level playing field that offers a legitimate chance of winning at the end of the day. We must eliminate "built" in advantages to the big budget racers thru unfair point systems.

We must control costs of racing by scheduling races nearest to the centrality of boater participation rather than schedule a race 8 hours away to a place where the host club neither participates or travels to other races just make them "feel" better. Why drag 90% of a district 8 hours away just to race each other?? This is a bad business decision.

The only thing this causes is a loss of revenue for the district. It also has a longterm effect on participation as boaters rethink the hobby at the end of the season and may look to RC cars or planes for the next year.

Is it time for a cutback?? Could be. there is an old saying that goes, "sometimes you have to take a step backwards in order to take a step forward".

I agree that its time for a step backwards.

 

[Tim Kish]

Excellent reply Shark and I believe you have touched on a few things that have in my opinion

created the problem.

One other thing that may help is changing the way in which the Districts are devided ( I know this is a sour topic with many) but it doesn't make a lot of sense having two clubs an hour apart in different Districts while having clubs that are six hours away in the same ?????????

You would think the clubs that are so close together would support each other regardless of the District they are in but this has proven not to be so over the years.

I have not renewed my IMPBA for this year simply do to lack of interest in competing ( I still love model boats ) , I am hoping that will change for next season

Tim K.

 

[Ron Olson]

People want to be able to run in more than one class so we won't see a drop in the number of classes but people want more, not less. This causes the problem of simply not having enough hours in a day to hold a race and most clubs or racers don't want two day events or do they?

Distance is also a factor. I'm half-way between Detroit and Chicago but in D-2 technically. Some D-4 races would actually be closer for me but the closest site for me is in D-14. I'd rather hit a one-day race than a two-day as sometimes I'd come into town the night before to keep from being too burned out for the long drive home.

I know that there are people who travel a lot further than I do to hit a race.

 

[Shark]

Tim,

I am in So. California. When Namba was created, California was one big district. From Sacramento to San Diego and Arizona, Namba had one district out here.

At one point, we added nevada to our district. We reached a pinacle when the boaters from Arizona and Nevada exceeded 50 members and the district was cut in half separating northern California from the southwest.

Now we have district 9 ( nor cal) and district 19 ( so cal, arizona, nevada)

The problem today is that Nevada has NO competitive Nitro boaters and the state might as well not exist.

Arizona which once had a booming roster of boaters (over 50) has now reduced to 6 active, traveling competitvely motivated boaters.

This makes for an uncomfortable dynamic. The majority of boaters in district 19 are in So. Calif, and they complain about traveling to arizona twice a year, yet on the Azrizona side, they have to travel 80% of the time to california to compete.

What do we do?? 6 vs 65 Hardly a fair equation.

Keeping in mind that racing is a business, and revenue is the key to a succesful season, a district must promote the participation of classes that bring competitors to different lo-cals because of the "competitive value" of the class.

But what is "competitive value"? You said it in your post. Winning a championship at years end against the same three guys hardly leaves you with a feeling of accomplishment and also subjects you to criticizm..

We have heard that on this board, when someone wins, some point out that others were missing and things would have been different. This cheap shot lends itself to stupidity.

How do we get to the point where everyone agrees that "competitive value" should be the benchmark of a class??

There is great satisfaction in knowing that after an entire season, you were able to win a class made up of 10 or more active participating boaters...

For us, the ideal solution would be to rejoin nor-cal and so-cal districts and combine our racing schedules. This way, the impact of traveling is spread evenly among all boaters rather than to only the minority.

So. California used to be the largest district per capita, but now its glory is fading.

Change needs to be done in order for this hobby to survive. Of course, there will be people who will resist change only because it is change.

i am not sure how big New mexico boating is, and if there is enough races there to accomdate the arizona boaters....?? This i am unsure of, but a couple of combination races may help both districts.

At the last race (our club) entries were only at 52 boats the monday before the race. I almost cancelled it. After a series of phone calls we got a few more entries and took that to 79 boats.

Still, a horrible turnout for the 6th race of the season.

I made a suggestion to district 9 that maybe a combination of races between districts where points counted in both districts could be accomplished and extra revenue for each district created as well as increasing the "competitive value" of racing was established.

To date, I have not recieved any response to the suggestion.

Having both districts combining for a race would double participation at the races and double the income recieved by each district. This could only happen if the points counted towards year end championships.

The dynamic of "competitive value" changes tremendously as the boaters themselves face new competition, rather than the same few who attend regular district races. The days of sandbagging and put-ting around the track with a huge lead changes.

In addition, a new points system to alter the dynamic of the point series chase could be installed.

Here in district 19, we began with the Official Namba Point system which was mimicked from full size boat racing. End of day points:

1) 400

2) 300

3) 225

4) 169

5) 127

6) 94

etc etc

At the end of the day, your point total for completed heats would determined your end of day standings.

However, Back in the mid-80's, our district recieved complaints from boaters that they traveled along way only to not score ANY POINTS because the system only went to 10th place. This posed an interesting dilema for the district as some classes had over 20 boats in each class.

To remedy this situation, a points change was made. It was suggested and voted in that all competitors would keep their HEAT points as year end points at the end of the day. So if you scored 1500 points for the day, you also scored 1500 points towards the championship. This worked out well until the late 90's.

You see, as long as there are over 10 boats in a class, then this works out well, but when their are less than 10 boats in a class, the point spreads become out of balance and unfair. In a class where their are only 5 boats, the driver who finishes first (1) gains way too many points to over come. Any DNF is the begining of the end of the remaining 4 boaters.

We can effectively change this scenario by reducing the separation of spreads between positions. This way, no one can run away and gain such a lead as they dont have to participate in the final three races of a season (as I am in this year). This advantage benefits guys like me and penalizes the new boaters.

I have suggested a new point system that takes into account a level playing field for all boaters and insures that participation increases and not decreases at the end of a season.

The NEW point structure is as follows:

1)100

2) 90

3) 85

4) 75

5) 65

6) 55

7) 45 (anything after 7th gets 45 points)

DNF 25

DNS 0-zero

Points are heat based and total points scored for the day count towards the year end championship.

With a marginal separation between positions, the "competitive value" increases as a true champion would have to make all races to win the season.

As a test, do some math.. take some results of your own races and apply this point system and see how many positions changed.

Example: old points

boater 1 round 1-400, round 2-300, round 3-DNF 25, round 4-400 = 1125 points (75% heat completion)

boater 2 round 1-300, round 2-225, round 3-225, round 4-225 = 975 points (100% completion)

new points:

boater 1 round 1-100, round 2-95, round 3-25, round 4-100 = 320 points (75% completion)

boater 2 round 1- 90, round 2-85, round 3-85, round 4-85 = 345 points (100% completion)

In first example, boater 1 had the advantage using the old points and in fact increased his lead over boater 2 even though he only completed 3 heats for the day. In example 2, boater 1's advantage was eliminated and in fact was behind in points to boater 2 who actually finished 100% of his heats.

Boater 1 had 2 wins, 1 second and a DNF for the day vs boater 2 who had 1 second and 3 thirds. Boater 2 completed 100% of his heats and the advantage should go to the boater with the better finish percentage.

The old NAMBA points favor the faster boater with a poorer finish percentage.

This point change alone would jump start model boating in every district.

give it some thought?

 

[topfuel443]

geez Rey... good posts, but man your fingers must be aching.

~James

 

[Mike Hughes]

I like it Rey. I too had been thinking about what could be done to make it more competitive racing. Last year in NAMBA 8 Eric B. ran away with 6 of the classes. Now I am not bashing what he did. His stuff was working great and he deservered it. But towards the end people gave up on the classes. I like the way 9 does their points. They use the old system towards the standings at the days end. A guy could finish 1st,2nd,1st, and 3rd and win the day but would only score 400 points towards dist. instead of 1325. You points system would sure make it much closer on racing. The only problem being able to get everyone to buy into it.

As to the original point of the thread, the class count in not the problem. In the last 2 years we have lost 8 regular large boat count racers. These guys would go to all dist races with at least 4 boats each. That is a total of 32 or more boats. In these years we have only added a few more racers. These are with less boats and don't go to all the races. People is the problem not the amount of classes.

Mike

 

[Tim Kish]

geez Rey... good posts, but man your fingers must be aching.

~James

Rey has obviously put a lot of thought into this.

What do you think would happen if we started to combine classes ?

Lets say 20 and forty hydro , 60 and 90 hydro just to have more boats race against

each other .

Or do away with engine restrictions all together and just have single engine open classes ?

Laugh you may but it may come down to this just to keep people interested in racing and actually competing.

As I said earlier three boat heats are not a lot of fun.

Tim

 

[Shark]

Mike,

Indeed. convincing everyone that for the benefit of all boaters, effective change is in order doesnt always work. Those who've been around a while KNOW the mathematical advantage of the current point system.

They are the most reluctant and often refer to the point system as tradition. By the same token, these folks are also the ones driving away potential new boaters.

A point structure that handicaps all participants fairly insures equity in that all who participate has a legitimate chance of winning, and the by-product of that equity is increased participation.

Who hasnt seen or been in a race where 1 boater had 3 heat wins and a DNF (1225) and won the race and the guy who finished second, had 4 second place finishes?? (1200) Why is the 2nd place finisher handicapped when he completed 100% of his heats?

This is not equity.

Demonstrating this inequity is the key to making change. After two years of trying, my districts awareness of the inequity is begining to show some life. Boaters are recognizing the extreme handicap they face using the current point structure.

We should do everything in our power to promote and protect the racing community. The handfuls of "lifers" are begining to fade away and new blood must be encouraged to accept change and move forward.

Old blood must not stand in the way of progress.

 

[F.Orlic]

You are right Tim, racing is not what it used to be. At the last race I've attended in Elmira N.Y. about 3 years ago I was bored to death and if I was not interested in doing more testing with boats and engines I would have stepped out of this hobby.

This hobby is on a downswing with IMPBA leading the pack, number of things contributed to this sad state of the hobby, way too many classes, limited choice of engines, raising cost, constant bickering and bashing of certaing manufactors and the biggest turn off for me when I see people making it personal when it comes to certain rules. I always see posts about how to get new people in this hobby but more efort should be put on getting old racers back, as they have a knowledge which should be passed on new guys. I could count more than 15 guys localy who were good racers attending races with 2-3 boats spending good coin but they found better things to do with their time and money and I do not blame them. Racing will never be what it was in '90 but I think it could be better than now with some drastic changes.

 

[Roxyflash]

My problem is cost to go to a race.Gasoline is the first problem the second is the closest one for me is Mendota 70 miles.After that its a 120 miles .Then farther out.They want 10 bucks or more to race three rounds.Two day races cost even more cause you have to sleep over.Time you pack a lunch or buy out on the road gas race cost fuel plugs starts adding up fast.Most races around here have simple trophys.I love racing but bills come first .We tried a few races couldnt even fill the classes.Even the dist 4 race was a small turn out.Are location isnt the best and thats holding are club back.The climate also dont help can only run half the year.Biggest thing right now is the cost to fun factor.Things are so much more costly plugs fuel engines pipes and trying to keep engines running when parts are hard to buy.When a simple 21 motor cost almost 400 dollars then the pipe header collect you have 500 invested at the least without a hull or hardware.Theres a big problem.Need to get the motor prices down like the Zenoah wounder why gas is holding its own.

 

[Chris Wood]

I here ya bruce.. You guys have it bad lol... I drive 2 1/2 HRS TO TEST.. ya not race TEST..

70 dollars to test.. not to mention 2.80 per plug @ 10-20 per test section yada yada.

It ain't cheap.. I look at car's and go why am i doing this.. cars are cheap.. and here is the main thing YOU CAN RUN LOCALLY.. That is what is killing our hobby..

But it has always been that way.. just more and more of less people doing it.

chris

 

[kenrc]

All contributors

It is nice to see what could be turned into a political nightmare post be so constructive. Keep the constructive posts coming.

As for to many classes.

This is a perspective from a new boater’s view. I have been interested in model boating for many years but was unable to find the time. This year I decided to make the time and pulled my 15 year old boat off the shelf and off I went to the races. It did not take long for me to realize I may need to invest in some new technology but never the less I was still having a good time. I took my 22 year old son down to a race and when he returned home he pulled his bank card out and had an entry level boat on the way. What we found is there is no real class to start with an entry level boat. What I mean by this is they have the rookie class but if you are above that level then you need or want to be as fast as the boaters that have been doing this for many years or it kind of gets frustrating watching them drive around the outside of you even if you are driving well. Maybe someone with a greater boating knowledge level could have made the entry level boat run better but needless to say he has since bought a new hull that cost as much as the original boat and motor package to get up to speed after just a few races.

My father in law and I opened a hobby / rc race track in so cal years ago in a market that looking back now did not need any new comers at the time. Of course we struggled for the first six months building our clientele and what we noticed was how many new people either got scared off when they asked what it would cost to go racing or only came a few times and never returned. We then started an entry level class that they could pick from two vehicles, tires, motors etc. When we sold the shop a few years later we were limiting the number of entries as we would not finish until 3:00am some nights and this was still our largest class and some of the best races even though many had moved up to other classes. It brought new people into the hobby. I know boating does not have the same exposure as cars but it was still a place to gain the experience and still be competitive while you get hooked like most of us do.

We are looking into gas for next year as it appears to be growing or at least maintaining and I like the idea of being able to run the same boats for two days if I choose. With that being said can anyone answer whey they do not have the rules so they run stock on Saturday and modified on Sunday. As above it would be easer to tell a new boater they could purchase a motor for $225 and be competitive than it is to tell them $600 or $700. And from what we have observed they have the motors so heavily modified the majority runs the same motors both days? I must be missing something here.

As for the points.

I had this same situation happen this month with the points. At the last minute the race location was moved because of uncontrollable circumstances and even though I was second in points there was no incentive for me to scramble to make the race as the current points leader had such a lead and as good as he runs there is no chance of catching him. People are always afraid of change. This new point system sounds like a great idea. But, it’s not a law, it’s just a rule that’s subject to a vote of approval by the membership, maybe you or a group of members should try to sell it in a different manner. Campaign it throughout the year so that people have input and understand how it affects them. This way they would not be so against the change. One thing I see with the new rule system that could be a problem is maybe there should be some type of throw-out if you’re trying to tighten up the points. Racers, for whatever reason, may not be able to attend all races and they would never be able to catch back up if they missed one race. As this is just a hobby and since all the monies are outgoing people are going to show up for the thrill of competition and great camaraderie. If you lose one or the other it stands to reason your attendance will fall. Like any business if you are losing clients change needs to be looked at.

 

[Mike Hughes]

I like the idea of being able to run the same boats for two days if I choose. With that being said can anyone answer whey they do not have the rules so they run stock on Saturday and modified on Sunday.

Ken

We run in NAMBA dist 8 this way. You can take a 3.5 stock tunnel and run it once on Sat. in stock. Then run it in 3.5 hydro, 3.5 mod tun, and 3.5 OB hydro on Sun. 4 classes with one boat. That gets them in and hooked. Then they realize they are out class and setup to a better boat.

Mike

 

[Tim Kish]

All contributors

It is nice to see what could be turned into a political nightmare post be so constructive. Keep the constructive posts coming.

Very interesting replies so far , good stuff.

I completely agree that all the cost involved to actually race have scared many people

away and with rising fuel prices not only is it more expensive to travell but people now have less expendable money to spend on their hobby.

That being said this has never been and never will be a cheap hobby probably the number one reason

it is a cult sport , you tell someone how much one of theese little boats cost and they look at you like you have a hole in your head. Sometimes I think they may be right but I have checked in the mirror many times and to this day have still not found that whole :lol: .

As I said earlier for me cost aside it is about the thrill of racing and small heats just don't cut it.

They are not exciting to participate in and even more brutal to watch.

What am I going to do about it ?

Well for next season I will race in the most competetive classes in my District , I have sold all

my boats that there was hardly a class for ( only the strong will survive) and have kept and purchased the boats that are the most popular.

Is this a good idea time will tell , I never thought much about racing in the stock tunnel class but

that is by far the largest class in our district , that is were the competition is and the fun so that is were I am headed .

I just hope the speed will keep me interested , I will really miss my 20 hydro .

Tim

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Try not to get down on the hobby. Yes it is more expensive than some motor sports but it is alot cheaper than others. For the last 18 years I have raced RC Boats, Race carts. Allison Late model stock cars, Sprint cars, Mini Sprints and now back to RC Boats. One thing I have observed is that clubs, race series and participation goes up and down with the tide and it is constantly changing. People normally leave because of money, family responsability, racing politics or they just plain got bored. People join a hobby they see their friends having fun and they want to join in. I for one am glad to be back. Yes things have changed but I am adapting. Some things have not changed like the politics but I have learned that that is a problem in any sport and that I have to do my best not to take ANYTHING too seriously. I am here to have fun with my youngest son, to relieve some stress and to enjoy the company of other dummies like me. As long as I keep that my main focuss then I will draw others in to the sport. If you are in the hobby for the right reason then 2 guys at a pond can have as much fun as 150 at a series event. Remember: Nitro- $30.00 plugs- $3.89 engine- $450. Gas to the race- $195. Having a blast with good friends- ..............Priceless!

 

[Shark]

(quote)

""This new point system sounds like a great idea. But, it’s not a law, it’s just a rule that’s subject to a vote of approval by the membership, maybe you or a group of members should try to sell it in a different manner. Campaign it throughout the year so that people have input and understand how it affects them. This way they would not be so against the change. One thing I see with the new rule system that could be a problem is maybe there should be some type of throw-out if you’re trying to tighten up the points. Racers, for whatever reason, may not be able to attend all races and they would never be able to catch back up if they missed one race. As this is just a hobby and since all the monies are outgoing people are going to show up for the thrill of competition and great camaraderie. If you lose one or the other it stands to reason your attendance will fall. Like any business if you are losing clients change needs to be looked at.""

KEN,

Yes, as a business, we are losing clients. All districts need to look into change. If it is too many classes running that dilutes the effective competitive value of a class, then classes should be eliminated.

Competition is what breeds attendance. If there is a class that offers great engines, great hulls and full field of drivers, then this is what attracts a boater to a class. If a class has three guys and 20 year old hulls and 1 or two engines with scarce parts, then that class has no competitive value. Its only running to fill space or protect someones feelings.

We need limits on growth, growth can dilute a sport to a point where the pie has been sliced way too thin to fill our stomachs.

Our club just ran a race where we had several 3 boat classes for 4 rounds!

But where are the boaters going?? Here, most are going to cars. The cars racing schedule is mainly centralized to southern california. This is hurting my district. Some are switcing to planes and they can fly close to home and not really compete and just hang out.

What we need to emphazise is the ability to provide a competitive enviroment that attracts boaters and not distracts them. If a new point system can increase attendance over a 9 race schedule, then ultimately boaters will run additional classes.

There are two rules of thought:

1) I can run 1 or 2 classes and maybe be top ten even though I am not the fastest and any other classes are out of the question because i cant afford to run up to five classes without a legitimate chance of winning.

or

2) I can run 1 or 2 classes and if I am competitive at the end of the year, I will add 2 more classes as my chances of winning have been dramatically improved.

Inspiration begins from within, a boater has to decide his budget based upon a probability of winning. If the probability of winning increases, the desire to spend more on the hobby becomes likely.

If the probability of winning decreases, a boater is more reluctant to spend more than is necessary to race and in fact, looks for ways to cutback.

The point system I suggested makes sense on paper and in application, its the implementation that is the problem.

Resistence to change and the lack of vision by those who wish to keep things the same prevents corrective advance. Points is only the begining of change. Scheduling, formats and number of races also have to be looked at by districts.

We have to start somewhere.

Throwing out of races has a big downside to revenue, as some may chose not to race for one reason or another and that reduces revenue. Getting all boaters to a race is the key.

This new point system also prevents a boater who misses a race from falling too far behind.. It does still provide a chance to catch up over the course of a season.

Nascar did the same thing to their point system to balance out smaller teams vs the big budget teams...only 5 points separate positions from 1st thru 43rd.

its working there, why not here????

 

[kenrc]

Mike

In district 19 the tunnel is one of the boats you could race in multiple events on a weekend. I am unsure if you can run in the hydro classes. The quote was more directed towards the gas class. The motor rule was probably put in place when the gas hobby was new and the stock motors did not perform very well. Now the motors have advanced to a level that not all but most of the boaters seem to run the same boat and motor combo both days. My point is now for someone new to come into the hobby and to be competitive they must spend the $600 - $700 or they will lose interest quickly. This may be what the membership wants but most of the time as technology and times advance rules need to be adjusted to keep up. I could be way off here but that is the perception.

Tim

The expendable cash issue seems to get worse every year and I am afraid it is going to continue.

“As I said earlier for me cost aside it is about the thrill of racing and small heats just don't cut it. They are not exciting to participate in and even more brutal to watch”

As I think about the most exciting races I have been in it is about being in a pack of boats, cars, motorcycles etc. not driving around a ½ a lap ahead or behind someone no mater how fast you are going. We used to video tape the drivers stand at the track and play it back to the customer and they never even knew when they were in a heated battle they were shaking the radio or using so much body English. Take a look at the driver stand at your next race and you will see what I mean.

This is different than others hobbies, even in the stock class. There can be so much difference in the hulls in a given class and then you get someone that really understands the props and you can have 10-15 mph or more difference with the same equipment. Hats off to them for understanding this but are these the best races to watch or participate in? The good thing we have noticed is most seem to share there knowledge and it is not too hard to get in the ball park.

 

[kenrc]

Shark

I understand what you are saying and a soon as the races can start paying me $100,000+ just to make the race I will not mind the lumps my wife would put on my head when I tell her we have to change the kids wedding plans or cancel the cruise we booked a year in advance so I can race my “hobby” boat because the new schedule came out in January.

In NASCAR I think they start 43 cars every race, 30 or 40 races, and with the new top 35 rule if they do not qualify for 1 race it puts them in a major hole but with that many they still have a chance to come back.

In our case if we have 5 in a race and I had missed a race and lost 400 points to someone it will be very difficult to ever recover. If the same individual finished 5th for the next 6 heats and I was perfect it could work but what are the chances if he had a perfect score at the race you missed? People will always think of different scenarios and that was my point. Talk with the membership and get as many different scenarios as you can, adjust the rule if there is merit to their concern and the resistance to change may be at a lower level when it comes to vote time. As in anything, all will not be happy but if the majority is with you it should not hurt any feelings to the point we will lose their interest.

 

[Mike Stewart]

It seems to me winning some money sure would help, I'm sorry but the trophy's that you win here in district 19 are...... well....., sorry not meaning to offend anyone. A group of friends and I have been running boats for 15 years and never raced officially, yet we are die-hards about running and racing our boats. We sometimes will all throw $10.00 in a hat, run all day, and at the end of day have a winner take all race. You could win $50.00 or so. Oooops that would be gambling?? :unsure: so maybe that doesn't really happen, as far as I know. :lol: All that being said I am looking to join NAMBA and race district 19 next month as long as I get my Scale boat painted. Winning money sure would help offset some costs though, even if entry fees went up a bit, not to mention the instant gratification of cash in hand.