What is wrong with racing ?

[bzubee]

I understand the use of metaphors but you also have to face reality wake up from your dream world sometime. R/C boat racing will never be as big as R/C car racing just full size boat racing will never be as big as NASCAR or NHRA. That is reality! Can R/C boating improve yes but it will depend on indivisuals and clubs doing the recuriting of new members and the oraganizations working with all of the members to provide the tools to allow the newcomers to enjoty the hobby at an entry level. Such as IMPBA's Production class or some other entry level class.

Bzbee,

Do you understand the use of metaphors??

I think the misunderstanding is yours.

Peace.

 

[AWaddle322]

Just wanted to make a response for eavryone to stop and think about. As for th problems with IMPBA going on right now we are getting those worked out and I would like to point out that if you go back and count how few the members are that are posting negative post about the rule you will se it is only about 6 or so of the same people doing all of the complaining. Go on and actually count the numbers. It's about the same number and people that did all the complaining back 2 years ago and even beyond when Tom Grannis tried to get a noise rule passed. IMPBA passed the first rule that was a passive rule and tried to use peer pressure to encourage membrs to quiet their boats down that for the most part did not work. I ws one of those that found ways around the rule. THen after the 2005 Internats a member came to me with a change to the noise rule and I worked with him on th ewording and presented the proposal to the board a few more changes were made to the wording in th eboard meeting and it was then presented to the membership to be voted on, and approved by a majority of the membership that actually sent their ballots in. There is the short history of how the IMPBA got into the problem we are in now. As I stated earlier we are working on changes to correct some of the problem areas of the present rule but this does take time and some members want it to happen NOW. THEY want it NOW!! THey don't want the membership to have asay it how the problem is solved, AS president I promise the changes will go according to how our rulebook lays out the procedures fo rany change to the rulebook.

Mr. President Bill Zuber,

You are right we do want it now and i atleast understand the process of getting rules changed. With the meter obviosly reading differently there is a problem (which you allude to in the above post and your other post about offering meter calabration). So far I have not seen one person that has said they will not quiten there boats down to 92 dbs but with the meter calabration issue it is kind of impossible to do. I have thought that I was below the limit by several db for a couple of years now(and still not sure that i am not) .Of course you know the rest of the story......

My question to you is how do you and the board inteed to save the remainder of the season. If a new rule proposal is not in by the septemeber roostertail we will have this problem next years as well to. This has been going on long enough and to the best of my knowledge we are no closer to solving this problem than we were two months ago when this probloem was discovered. I encourage you and the board to come up with some statement (not a rule change) that encourages no disqualification (as long as the boater is making legitimate changes between each and every round to correct problem) up until such a time that some new rule goes into effect that addresses the problems with the current rule. If some guidelines are not given I believe that you will see this rule be not enforced and this is not intended to be a bash towards the Jackson, Tn club but look how they already publically stated about how the noise rule will be enforced. Other clubs are doing the same (some just not publically).

Sincerely,

Allen

 

[Tim Kish]

Just wanted to make a response for eavryone to stop and think about. As for th problems with IMPBA going on right now we are getting those worked out and I would like to point out that if you go back and count how few the members are that are posting negative post about the rule you will se it is only about 6 or so of the same people doing all of the complaining. Go on and actually count the numbers. It's about the same number and people that did all the complaining back 2 years ago and even beyond when Tom Grannis tried to get a noise rule passed. IMPBA passed the first rule that was a passive rule and tried to use peer pressure to encourage membrs to quiet their boats down that for the most part did not work. I ws one of those that found ways around the rule. THen after the 2005 Internats a member came to me with a change to the noise rule and I worked with him on th ewording and presented the proposal to the board a few more changes were made to the wording in th eboard meeting and it was then presented to the membership to be voted on, and approved by a majority of the membership that actually sent their ballots in. There is the short history of how the IMPBA got into the problem we are in now. As I stated earlier we are working on changes to correct some of the problem areas of the present rule but this does take time and some members want it to happen NOW. THEY want it NOW!! THey don't want the membership to have asay it how the problem is solved, AS president I promise the changes will go according to how our rulebook lays out the procedures fo rany change to the rulebook.

Mr. President Bill Zuber,

You are right we do want it now and i atleast understand the process of getting rules changed. With the meter obviosly reading differently there is a problem (which you allude to in the above post and your other post about offering meter calabration). So far I have not seen one person that has said they will not quiten there boats down to 92 dbs but with the meter calabration issue it is kind of impossible to do. I have thought that I was below the limit by several db for a couple of years now(and still not sure that i am not) .Of course you know the rest of the story......

My question to you is how do you and the board inteed to save the remainder of the season. If a new rule proposal is not in by the septemeber roostertail we will have this problem next years as well to. This has been going on long enough and to the best of my knowledge we are no closer to solving this problem than we were two months ago when this probloem was discovered. I encourage you and the board to come up with some statement (not a rule change) that encourages no disqualification (as long as the boater is making legitimate changes between each and every round to correct problem) up until such a time that some new rule goes into effect that addresses the problems with the current rule. If some guidelines are not given I believe that you will see this rule be not enforced and this is not intended to be a bash towards the Jackson, Tn club but look how they already publically stated about how the noise rule will be enforced. Other clubs are doing the same (some just not publically).

Sincerely,

Allen

I apolagize for starting this post , I am done with it.

Tim K

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

So I guess my question is , now that we have so many classes in IMPBA do you think it has helped or hurt racing , has it been a good thing or bad.

Like I said I am not pointing fingers or trying to lay blame it is just an observation of what I think has changed in this hobby over the years..

Tim K

With respect to everyone's opinion but most of all respect to Tim and his string it would be nice if we could stay on point. NASCAR is a good comparison of what works good. So what could we impliment from that program "realistically". And I think we have enough strings talking about noise rules no need to high jack this one. It started out constructive... I would like to see something constuctive come out of it.

BTW - I didn't see too many people make any suggestion to what they were going to do "personally" to make things better. For those of you who did. I see you. I commend you for it. But for those of you have not I would like to hear what positive contribution you plan to make.

...At the moment the problem I see is there are far too many people willing to gather around and complain about what's wrong rather than rally around an idea to make things right.

 

[Shark]

Roger,

This is the problem. Denial.

I could sit around all day and say nothing, prepare to race and win weekend after weekend. I could continue to take advantage of points that make racing non-competitive. I can remain quiet and race three boat heats and watch the district take it in the shorts trying to pay for a $85 dollar jacket even though it only took in $72.00 for the year in the class.

Or, I could sit and type arguments over the internet.

Instead, I heard the question asked in the begining and provided a couple of tangible solutions.

Unfortunately, there are those who are trying to redirect the post and turn it into a ***** session in order to remain at status quo.

The comparisions that people used including myself were merely examples of much larger organizations who faced resistence to change yet over came those obstacles to improve their respective sports. The reality of the comparisions was that "our" tiny organization should take a lesson from much larger organizations and make moves that improve, enhance and provide a lasting future to a hobby we all obviously enjoy.

This is a hobby of mathematics. The equation is simple:

Change + INCENTIVE = investment = revenue = growth = enthusiasm

Anything short of this equation means reduced participation, reduced revenue, reduced enthusiasm & lack of comparability.

Lets all try and embrace an idea or two from this thread and see if they can be implemented and things improve. This would be a step in the right direction.

Additionally, everyone needs to stop taking things so "literal" when someone uses metaphoric structure to convey a point. Try and simply GET THE POINT.

Dont misconstrue the thought, (ie: model boating will get as big as nascar.) and see what the writer is trying to say.

We all have to agree that model boating by area is different and some may not be experiencing the same reductions as others. So if your area is NOT experiencing a reduction, then post what things your district is doing to keep things kicking and competitive.

It wasnt Tim K's intention to begin a ***** session and I back his position from the start.

If we all can set aside the feelings of being "threatened" by change, we can make some positive headway.

Model boaters everywhere have a responsiblity to make the hobby as competitive and entertaining as possible.

 

[P THOMAS]

Here is something odd. I went to a race today, there was good racing, didnt win a trophy but had fun.

dont believe everthing you read on the internet

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Roger,

Model boaters everywhere have a responsiblity to make the hobby as competitive and entertaining as possible.

I have made three attempts at posting this comment but my computer locked up or I hit the wrong key and exited the text interface each time.

What I wanted to say to you Rey is that I will support your proposal to share a couple of races. I am not an officer of D9 but I will bring it up to the DD. I am not sure it will accomplish what you are looking for but in reviewing it I don't see how it could hurt anything. Again... my underlying principle is "FUN" and I think it would be fun. Since this is a hobby and only a hobby I don't see the harm in constructive and structured trial and error. So if you think that would help your district I am all for helping out. Just like I said in my previous post... each person should look to themselves and ask what they could do to improve the cause of RC boating. I will always try to lead by example. Racing D19 guys will be fun. I remember the days of traveling down south for district races. The bad thing is... now it's me that has to do all the driving not my dad. Ahhhhh... Gone are the days of getting carried to the car in a dead sleep at three o'clock in the mornign only to wake up to the high pitch buzz of screaming monos and the sweet smell of nitro.

...I think I just painted a pleasant picture for many of us right there.

 

[Shark]

Roger,

yes, the idea is only a way to promote both districts and raise not only revenue but expectations and enthusiasm.

What if we began each season with a combination race that counted in our respective point chases, then went on to race a 8 race schedule only to finish the season with another combination race???

Man , this would be a blast.

Think about the possibilities!! The days of a racer being able to cruise at the last two races because his competition is only 3 or 4 boats goes out the window as a class has the chance of doubling or tripling in size.

We had 5 B hydros (45) consistently at each race so far, added with yours at two races we could get that total to 10 or even 15. This would be a race!!

Head to Head in the beginging and head to head at the end, each changing the dynamic of the points chase in both districts!!

Give this some thought.

19 could host race 1 of both seasons, and 9 could host the last race of both. This would be waaaaay better than the 9/19 challenge!!

Also Roger, give my points idea some thought, try and take your last race and re-do the points using my new points chart and see how many positions changed. I think you will see a more competitive spread of points.

Marginalizing positions will inherently increase particpation, and increasing participation will inherently increase revenue, and with both of these factors considered, boaters will lean towards new investment as the odds of winning increase.

Give it some thought Roger , I think we could set an example for others to follow.

Peace.

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

When I make a suggestion I like to be sure that I can anticipate every question as well as have an answer for it.

Before I jump the gun I see a couple of challenges. D9 races all of classes over the weekend. Does 19 still split it up? We don't run xMono, Sport 60 or Sport X will that have to be added to the schedule? We already have a consistant 120 boats a weekend. Combining both with the intended enthusiasm will we have too many for a weekend of racing?... 240?

Changing the points system is another issue. It is in discussion though. Like I said... I don't really care one way or another but if it makes more competitive what's the harm. Just changing old minds to new ways may make this one a few years in the making.

 

[AWaddle322]

Just wanted to make a response for eavryone to stop and think about. As for th problems with IMPBA going on right now we are getting those worked out and I would like to point out that if you go back and count how few the members are that are posting negative post about the rule you will se it is only about 6 or so of the same people doing all of the complaining. Go on and actually count the numbers. It's about the same number and people that did all the complaining back 2 years ago and even beyond when Tom Grannis tried to get a noise rule passed. IMPBA passed the first rule that was a passive rule and tried to use peer pressure to encourage membrs to quiet their boats down that for the most part did not work. I ws one of those that found ways around the rule. THen after the 2005 Internats a member came to me with a change to the noise rule and I worked with him on th ewording and presented the proposal to the board a few more changes were made to the wording in th eboard meeting and it was then presented to the membership to be voted on, and approved by a majority of the membership that actually sent their ballots in. There is the short history of how the IMPBA got into the problem we are in now. As I stated earlier we are working on changes to correct some of the problem areas of the present rule but this does take time and some members want it to happen NOW. THEY want it NOW!! THey don't want the membership to have asay it how the problem is solved, AS president I promise the changes will go according to how our rulebook lays out the procedures fo rany change to the rulebook.

Mr. President Bill Zuber,

You are right we do want it now and i atleast understand the process of getting rules changed. With the meter obviosly reading differently there is a problem (which you allude to in the above post and your other post about offering meter calabration). So far I have not seen one person that has said they will not quiten there boats down to 92 dbs but with the meter calabration issue it is kind of impossible to do. I have thought that I was below the limit by several db for a couple of years now(and still not sure that i am not) .Of course you know the rest of the story......

My question to you is how do you and the board inteed to save the remainder of the season. If a new rule proposal is not in by the septemeber roostertail we will have this problem next years as well to. This has been going on long enough and to the best of my knowledge we are no closer to solving this problem than we were two months ago when this probloem was discovered. I encourage you and the board to come up with some statement (not a rule change) that encourages no disqualification (as long as the boater is making legitimate changes between each and every round to correct problem) up until such a time that some new rule goes into effect that addresses the problems with the current rule. If some guidelines are not given I believe that you will see this rule be not enforced and this is not intended to be a bash towards the Jackson, Tn club but look how they already publically stated about how the noise rule will be enforced. Other clubs are doing the same (some just not publically).

Sincerely,

Allen

I apolagize for starting this post , I am done with it.

Tim K

Tim, If my post has offended you I apoligize. Here in district 5 we do not have the problems you all are talking about but we do not have a point series system either because I believe travel involved ( I think from my are to some parts of the lousiana are would be over 1000 miles.) We typically have 7 or more in every class we race in this area.

One thing I did before every racing an event was attened a race (spring nats in atlanta in 1999). I spent the weekend at this race not racing but looking , asking questions, and learning. The people from my local club area made me feel very at home, made me a place in there tent to get out of the sun and even loaned me a chair. With some of the other experience you read about if more were treated like I was I think that more would be in model boating for the long haul. Of course by doing what I did, I did not buy into a class that did not exsisit in my area to.

Think about how you treat the newbies. Be willing to give them some time. My last experience was with a new boater who in is first event ever set the 3.5 sport outboard record and has broken his record at every record trial he has attended since then (4 now). The amount of time it took to help this motivated fellow minimal. I made suggestions from the time we built the boat till the time we showed up at the first record trial. What has made this rewarding for me is a new friend and to here Geraghty and others talk about it. This experience has been very rewarding because in a lot of peoples opinion we have done the impossible. Something I have learned from this experience that he can tell me things about what my boat is doing that I can not see from the drivers stand. It has been a two way street. I have helped him and he has helped me.

Sincerely,

Allen Waddle

 

[Grimracer]

After returning to this hobby a couple of years ago I quickly realized some thing had changed

something was different.

No it wasnt the fact that my best friend had given up the racing part of this hobby to persue the perfect 21 Novarossi it was something else.

I thought about this for quite a while and finnally put my finger on what I think it is.

There are just way to many classes now , the competition is so watered down you are lucky to have a full heat of anything , and when you do get a good turnout there is not enough time to race five full heats .

Elmira is good example , I was very supprised that they changed to four heats in order to accomadate all the classes , this was one of the top race sites in North America at one time and is to far for me and many others to travel to for just four heats.

Now before anyone gets upset I am sure there is still some great racing going on but gone are the day's of two and three heats of any given class unless at a regular event unless you are willing to travel to Atlanta or the Internats or other special events.

I can remember going to London and seeing two and three heats of many different classes at a regular event .

District 1 races were no different , If you won your class you actually beat more than a couple boats ,you felt lke you accomplished something.

Now I am not suggesting that the new classes should be removed or that it's anyone's falt but it certainly seems to have watered down the competition , even worse so if you run a class that barely makes a heat.

So I guess my question is , now that we have so many classes in IMPBA do you think it has helped or hurt racing , has it been a good thing or bad.

Like I said I am not pointing fingers or trying to lay blame it is just an observation of what I think has changed in this hobby over the years..

Tim K

Hea Tim,

Here is what I feel,

Its very likely we have to many classes but i do not feel like that is the cause of the decline in the number of racers. We have for ever been a cult sport because almost everything but engines are HOME MADE. Sure some of us make and sell parts and kits but.. even today with the net you still need to know or bl&^ somebody to get race parts.

I also feel like the net has had a huge impact on our toy racing. Not all for the better mind you. Not all bad either.. just took good time away from my time at the work bench.. proof of this is me sitting here now and writing this. Some of the info is good most is useless..

Without MFG support... (we had better support 15 to 20 years ago) its not going to get any better either.. sure maybe in years to come we will all be buying our stuff JUST on the net but without any interaction with the locals and a few good hand shakes we will have a long row to hoe.

Its time to get RC boat MFG out of the garage. its a great place to start but with out a good plan (im speaking form experience here) its not going to change. Also just one of the reaions we have a noise issue..

i.e. RC cars... Moody to Associated.. who had the vision..

ROCK ON

Grimracer

 

[Tim Kish]

Allen

I am not offended at all , I just dont want to see this to turn into a what is wrong with IMPBA or a DB rule debate .

Just an observation of how there seem to be less racers these days and double the classes to fill.

Even if the number of racers has not decreased they are spread out even more thinly now than before only

watering down the competition .

If this hobby is going to grow it needs to start at the club level races they are the cheapest to attend and because of location to the racers homes more likely to be attended.

Maybe more one day races would help ?

Not sure what the solution is , there are a lot of ways to spend our money these day's to keep ourselves amused.

Tim K

 

[Tim Kish]

One thig for sure when I tell interested people how much

money is involved in these little boats and racing they are shocked and unfortunately that will never change.

Now back to running Monster trucks with my son .

Tim K

 

[Shark]

Here is something odd. I went to a race today, there was good racing, didnt win a trophy but had fun.

dont believe everthing you read on the internet

P thomas,

Apparently, you are the one with the difficuilty to read as I posted this prior to your post:

"We all have to agree that model boating by area is different and some may not be experiencing the same reductions as others. So if your area is NOT experiencing a reduction, then post what things your district is doing to keep things kicking and competitive." (end quote)

With your post, you provided a touch of sarcasm that is the very problem with finding a solution. This is how the thread becomes derailed.

Do you have any ideas to share with the group? Care to share the success story of your district to all?

If not. Zip it.

Peace.

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Do you realize you are comparing full size car racing to model boat racing? Of course you do! Why not compare full size boat racing to model boat racing? Why ? Because the full size boat racing is no where near as successful as the full size car racing! Compare model car racing to NASCAR it is now where near as poular as NACAR either. TH eonly reason it is more popular than model boat racing is the R/C Cars /truck can be run almost any where with no requirement to use a retrieve boat. If yo utake a good look and actually compare apples to apples, model boat racing is as doing as well as full size boat racing relational wise. I think the point Rod was making is it was much easier for NASCAR to generate rules/ policyies and procedures when it is on eperson making the call versus all of the members.

I would suggest the next time you think about making a comparison try comparing similar type of racing vehicles!

I'd like to point out since 2004 IMPBA has had 400 new members join. Our membership ihas actually grown since 2004 and has grown even more since 2005. So I would hardly say it is diying off many of the races are maxed out on attendance due mostly to the pre race work publicity done by the club members hosting the event and the 2 great forums I'Waters and Jim's Boat Dock.

Just wanted to make a response for eavryone to stop and think about. As for th problems with IMPBA going on right now we are getting those worked out and I would like to point out that if you go back and count how few the members are that are posting negative post about the rule you will se it is only about 6 or so of the same people doing all of the complaining. Go on and actually count the numbers. It's about the same number and people that did all the complaining back 2 years ago and even beyond when Tom Grannis tried to get a noise rule passed. IMPBA passed the first rule that was a passive rule and tried to use peer pressure to encourage membrs to quiet their boats down that for the most part did not work. I ws one of those that found ways around the rule. THen after the 2005 Internats a member came to me with a change to the noise rule and I worked with him on th ewording and presented the proposal to the board a few more changes were made to the wording in th eboard meeting and it was then presented to the membership to be voted on, and approved by a majority of the membership that actually sent their ballots in. There is the short history of how the IMPBA got into the problem we are in now. As I stated earlier we are working on changes to correct some of the problem areas of the present rule but this does take time and some members want it to happen NOW. THEY want it NOW!! THey don't want the membership to have asay it how the problem is solved, AS president I promise the changes will go according to how our rulebook lays out the procedures fo rany change to the rulebook.

Thanks for all your hard work I know you must be puting into it. I'm sure it's a thankless job that gets criticism no matter what you do. I for one think you are heading in the right direction. The db rule could use a little tweaking but all in all is a good rule that will help to keep outr race sights and our hearing.

 

[Shark]

When I make a suggestion I like to be sure that I can anticipate every question as well as have an answer for it.

Before I jump the gun I see a couple of challenges. D9 races all of classes over the weekend. Does 19 still split it up? We don't run xMono, Sport 60 or Sport X will that have to be added to the schedule? We already have a consistant 120 boats a weekend. Combining both with the intended enthusiasm will we have too many for a weekend of racing?... 240?

Changing the points system is another issue. It is in discussion though. Like I said... I don't really care one way or another but if it makes more competitive what's the harm. Just changing old minds to new ways may make this one a few years in the making.

Roger,

yes, we as a group would have to establish what logistics will be in place for this to take place. We basically only split up GAS and NITRO now. We do run sport 60 but not sport X. We do run X mono but there are only three boats in the class.

Do you folks run GAS with the NITRO classes? Our gas group is running just fine on their own and does not need to be included in this "suggested" integration.

As for the racing schedule, how about we utilize the 3 day weekends for these types of races?? Memorial day and labor day? Currently, our 3 days events are in san diego and the participation continues to drop as the races fall on the most "expensive" days of the year in san diego and this is causing a reduction.

There are many in 19 who are unhappy having to spend top dollar to attend a race where there are only 3 boats in a class.

The 3 day weekends offer a "drive home" day for all concerned and this would allow the racing to be extended into late sunday if necessary. Daylight is also a consideration as the sun is maximised during this window of opportunity.

I understand that this is only a "suggestion" and many have to be consulted and convinced to make a change like this. However, we have to start somewhere. You and I go way back, I believe you and I share the same concerns when it comes to this hobby. In the past, it was the guys "our" age that were the visionaries for growth (steve muck, george campbell, Mom & Don Coad, Hap williams, Gene Adams, Jim Henry & many others who had an idea and made it happen.)

I guess we need to step up to the plate and make our contributions.

As for the points. Let me post them again for your consideration with a few explanations.

1) 100

2) 90

3) 85

4) 75

5) 65

6) 55

7+) 45

DNF 25

DNS 0

DQ 0

Bonus points: Perfect day, 400 points.........= 10 bonus points

Fast time of day for class ..........................= 10 bonus points

Hit a called dead boat (DQ)........................= -20 points

take an old race and change all the points over to this format. Do an analyst of the results and see how drastic positions change and how close the racing becomes. Remember the concept here, keep things "tight" to maintain participation. If we maintain participation, we can grow revenue for each district.

Keeping the points chase "tight" wil inspire investment as boaters will be more inclined to make changes that they otherwise wouldnt consider.

At any rate, let me know what you see and feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Peace.

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Here is something odd. I went to a race today, there was good racing, didnt win a trophy but had fun.

dont believe everthing you read on the internet

P thomas,

Apparently, you are the one with the difficuilty to read as I posted this prior to your post:

"We all have to agree that model boating by area is different and some may not be experiencing the same reductions as others. So if your area is NOT experiencing a reduction, then post what things your district is doing to keep things kicking and competitive." (end quote)

With your post, you provided a touch of sarcasm that is the very problem with finding a solution. This is how the thread becomes derailed.

Do you have any ideas to share with the group? Care to share the success story of your district to all?

If not. Zip it.

Peace.

Boy! I'll take this one!

I was at this race and the reason it was such a big success is simple. It's a small and new club so every one realizes that thay ALL have to pitch in. This makes for a better race where everybody is working and pitching in. When this happens and everybody is having fun then the club grows, more boat at each event etc. What I have seen in many clubs is that at some point the new members don't realize the work that goes into these events and they just show up to race. Complain when they don't get their way.Then there's discontent, people get upset and normally the people doing all the work, quit from discust. The people who didn't want to help, quit cuz it's no fun any more with all the workers gone. I've seen it happen many times in many clubs and series. I wish I knew how to stop it. It seems to start with a fiew cronic complainers (im sure you know the type) who just won't shut up. One thing I have learned from clubs, tracks or series is that the ones that are successfull are so because they are fair, firm and consistant. You can be a but hole, but as long as you are a but hole with everybody then you will be respected and things will progress. (look at Bill France) Think about that next time you elect an official or president.

 

[RodneyPierce]

I also agree with a few here. I went to my first race ever in Mendota, Ill. I didnt bring home any first, second or third place trophys, but sure as hell had a GREAT time, and met alot of new friends. This is what I LOVE about boat racing, everyone is great to deal with, you make lots of great friends, everyone is willign to give a helping hand when needed, and make you feel welcome. Like Phil Thomas said, I went to the race, didnt bring home a trophy, and still had a hell of a time. Thanks to the Mendota croud for making a new racer feel welcome, and I will be doing it alot more, that is forsure! Rod

 

[P THOMAS]

Now I surely dont speak for any other district or organization. However, as a participant for 38 years now, I have seen this hobby go from gangbusters to just bust in less than 10 years.

I have made the first of many ideas to promote growth and enthusiasm. Our Points system. With competitive change as done in all other areas of motorized sport, we can re-generate enthusiasm by increasing the ODDS of winning. Once the ODDS of winning are increased, the by-product will be investment and growth by the racing community. These things go hand in hand.

I agree with those who believe there are too many classes and way too many three boat heats. One poster wrote that "his" best races were three boat heats as there wasnt that much dead wood to go around. Well, thats hardly a competitive race when you factor in a 50% DNF percentage per heat ratio. Dead wood is a part of the competition. There are no easy heats.

Confusing "entertainment" value with "competitive" value is not equal. Indeed, watching 3 twin X hydros running around is pure entertainment, but on a flip side, watching three 3.5 outboard monos run around is hardly an eye opener.

In our district, I have made the suggestion that we incorporate at least two races into sister districts with points that count towards "our" championship series. This would accomplish a few things. First, the size of the race would at least double in attendance. This means more revenue for the respective districts.

Second, the dynamic of each class would change as the competition increases. IE: a 5 boat 45 hydro class in dist 19 would become a 10 or 15 boat class for the day. This alters the destiny of all points chasers as the competition naturally increases.

Thirdly, a more friendly interaction with sister districts would encourage participation and more social atmosphere between competitors.

Here, our district could interact with those up north in dist 9. They host one race in our schedule, and we host one race for their schedule.

This idea all but eliminates the 3 boat heat scenario that currently exists in our district.

I am sure others areas are facing similar numbers.

What I am proposing is simple change, effective competitive change that would include all racers, both big budget racers (like me) and the smaller budget racers who enjoy the hobby as well. Not everyone can be a big budget racer.

One boater posted that he travels in a trailer, with a shop, electricity, storage, drill press, lathe, etc etc etc...but what is not realized is this is what scares new boaters away.

I used to race 8 classes a weekend, in one year, I won them all. Then one day I over heard a couple of new guys talking around the pits. It was a saturday, I had just won my first two rounds in A OB tunnel, B OB tunnel & C OB tunnel. A perfect day you would have to say. These guys said to each other, "THAT GUY GARCIA MAKES THIS NO FUN, we ARE JUST WASTING OUR TIME".

I called my wife and told her I was going to pack up and come home. And I did. I never raced Outboards again. All my efforts to win races and the perception of it was that I was making others feel like they were wasting their time.

This made me realize the difference in perceptions. That is what separates us all.

Collectively, we should find a common ground and take a good hard look at the "competitive" value of the hobby vs the "entertainment" value of the hobby.

Our efforts should be centralized on growing the membership and the racing community and not knocking the organizations themselves. Yes, some districts have been run like dictatorships and resistence to change is present, yet many of us come back the next year to participate, some dont. its the "donts" that concern me.

There are many qualified boaters participating today with great ideas and imaginations. We just need to hear them.

Peace.

Hey Rey, I wasnt tring to be down on anything just pointing out that racing is fun for most people that go and participate.

The newbes that dont go race are a bit scared sometmes. The guys racing need to provide a feeling that they need not be fearful or get yelled at if they mess up.

Clubs really need to look at this new Ready to Run stuff that is selling and get a class organized. New guys that buy these will have just as much fun racing as someone with a fast x hydro.

I was told that one club here has had 4-5 people call and say they wanted to run there new RTR boat in a race. If a club is short on boaters or low boats in a class new guys will help a great deal.

Every club should have this RTR class on their program for every race. Find out what Hobby shop sold the boats and go put up a club info sheet abut RTR racing. I think the Aquacraft boats have in the setup book info about NAMBA and IMPBA racing.

If they have fun with that RTR they will be getting into more boats soon.

Dont get offended about this, i see that it did make you feel bad.

You stated above that you were successful in outboards and heard that some felt that they are wasting time racing. Why were they left with that feeling? Did they feel left out on some speed secrets or felt not welcome to race? Your solution was to just not race OB anymore? Who knows what their problem was, probally not just you doing well in OB.

When I started out there were some that were the top dogs and always won the race. Some were open and helped the new guy and some kept it all to themseves. I raced and lost a lot of heats, but the fast guys gave me a goal to rise to.

Combining District races where possible is a good plan we have been doing that here in the midwest for a few years, yes it does increase the boat count in classes and there is a higher level of competion.

Dont be afraid to combine classes if need be that works too. I know it works best to combine the larger motor classes. The 20 classes really cant compete with anything bigger.

Putting on a race with only tunnels, hydros, or only monos, or only sport and scale boats and race 5 heats works too. More racing in one day is possible with fewer classes scheduled.

Clubs could schedule one race a year with all classes offered and run 3-4 heats in two days, and for the more popular classes one or two other races with limited classes that could run more heats.

Those guys with boats that only have 3 show up at a district race need to talk up the class they are interested in and get some buddys to get their boats out or build one, better yet get a new guy to build one that would be competitive.

PHIL THOMAS

 

[Roger Hooks Jr.]

Now I surely dont speak for any other district or organization. However, as a participant for 38 years now, I have seen this hobby go from gangbusters to just bust in less than 10 years.

I have made the first of many ideas to promote growth and enthusiasm. Our Points system. With competitive change as done in all other areas of motorized sport, we can re-generate enthusiasm by increasing the ODDS of winning. Once the ODDS of winning are increased, the by-product will be investment and growth by the racing community. These things go hand in hand.

I agree with those who believe there are too many classes and way too many three boat heats. One poster wrote that "his" best races were three boat heats as there wasnt that much dead wood to go around. Well, thats hardly a competitive race when you factor in a 50% DNF percentage per heat ratio. Dead wood is a part of the competition. There are no easy heats.

Confusing "entertainment" value with "competitive" value is not equal. Indeed, watching 3 twin X hydros running around is pure entertainment, but on a flip side, watching three 3.5 outboard monos run around is hardly an eye opener.

In our district, I have made the suggestion that we incorporate at least two races into sister districts with points that count towards "our" championship series. This would accomplish a few things. First, the size of the race would at least double in attendance. This means more revenue for the respective districts.

Second, the dynamic of each class would change as the competition increases. IE: a 5 boat 45 hydro class in dist 19 would become a 10 or 15 boat class for the day. This alters the destiny of all points chasers as the competition naturally increases.

Thirdly, a more friendly interaction with sister districts would encourage participation and more social atmosphere between competitors.

Here, our district could interact with those up north in dist 9. They host one race in our schedule, and we host one race for their schedule.

This idea all but eliminates the 3 boat heat scenario that currently exists in our district.

I am sure others areas are facing similar numbers.

What I am proposing is simple change, effective competitive change that would include all racers, both big budget racers (like me) and the smaller budget racers who enjoy the hobby as well. Not everyone can be a big budget racer.

One boater posted that he travels in a trailer, with a shop, electricity, storage, drill press, lathe, etc etc etc...but what is not realized is this is what scares new boaters away.

I used to race 8 classes a weekend, in one year, I won them all. Then one day I over heard a couple of new guys talking around the pits. It was a saturday, I had just won my first two rounds in A OB tunnel, B OB tunnel & C OB tunnel. A perfect day you would have to say. These guys said to each other, "THAT GUY GARCIA MAKES THIS NO FUN, we ARE JUST WASTING OUR TIME".

I called my wife and told her I was going to pack up and come home. And I did. I never raced Outboards again. All my efforts to win races and the perception of it was that I was making others feel like they were wasting their time.

This made me realize the difference in perceptions. That is what separates us all.

Collectively, we should find a common ground and take a good hard look at the "competitive" value of the hobby vs the "entertainment" value of the hobby.

Our efforts should be centralized on growing the membership and the racing community and not knocking the organizations themselves. Yes, some districts have been run like dictatorships and resistence to change is present, yet many of us come back the next year to participate, some dont. its the "donts" that concern me.

There are many qualified boaters participating today with great ideas and imaginations. We just need to hear them.

Peace.

Hey Rey, I wasnt tring to be down on anything just pointing out that racing is fun for most people that go and participate.

The newbes that dont go race are a bit scared sometmes. The guys racing need to provide a feeling that they need not be fearful or get yelled at if they mess up.

Clubs really need to look at this new Ready to Run stuff that is selling and get a class organized. New guys that buy these will have just as much fun racing as someone with a fast x hydro.

I was told that one club here has had 4-5 people call and say they wanted to run there new RTR boat in a race. If a club is short on boaters or low boats in a class new guys will help a great deal.

Every club should have this RTR class on their program for every race. Find out what Hobby shop sold the boats and go put up a club info sheet abut RTR racing. I think the Aquacraft boats have in the setup book info about NAMBA and IMPBA racing.

If they have fun with that RTR they will be getting into more boats soon.

Dont get offended about this, i see that it did make you feel bad.

You stated above that you were successful in outboards and heard that some felt that they are wasting time racing. Why were they left with that feeling? Did they feel left out on some speed secrets or felt not welcome to race? Your solution was to just not race OB anymore? Who knows what their problem was, probally not just you doing well in OB.

When I started out there were some that were the top dogs and always won the race. Some were open and helped the new guy and some kept it all to themseves. I raced and lost a lot of heats, but the fast guys gave me a goal to rise to.

Combining District races where possible is a good plan we have been doing that here in the midwest for a few years, yes it does increase the boat count in classes and there is a higher level of competion.

Dont be afraid to combine classes if need be that works too. I know it works best to combine the larger motor classes. The 20 classes really cant compete with anything bigger.

Putting on a race with only tunnels, hydros, or only monos, or only sport and scale boats and race 5 heats works too. More racing in one day is possible with fewer classes scheduled.

Clubs could schedule one race a year with all classes offered and run 3-4 heats in two days, and for the more popular classes one or two other races with limited classes that could run more heats.

Those guys with boats that only have 3 show up at a district race need to talk up the class they are interested in and get some buddys to get their boats out or build one, better yet get a new guy to build one that would be competitive.

PHIL THOMAS

o

...And the crowd rises to their feet in amazement with a standing ovation... as somone else actually step to the plate with positive suggestions for improvement?

Wood work Phil!

I was just thinking this morning that I was going to email you. Now I have all the more reason. I new I liked you from the day you had dinner with me Alfred and Glen.