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You are corect james

The 1440 was easer than the 437. I was amazed. and i did pull the pipe out to even get it to pipe the wat it was. Just fine tuning now ashould see it getting better, unfortunatly i just ran out of time to keep playing with the setup. next week i will take it out and leave all the other boats at home! When I pulled the leg down last night I found i had used the wrong lube oil on the flex shaft and it was very sticky!!! next time i will use the corect oil. I must have glabbed the engine oil and it did not like having water added to it.

My theory is to use a 437 with a bit of a back cut, bring the pipe back into 8 1/4 and and make it squeal like a pig! Then trim the hull.

Thanks

Dave
 
Dave,

I think the 1440 B/C @3.33" is going to be much better on the TS2 than a X-437/3.

The M-440 or a modified X-440 is also a good way to go. Not sure about the three

blades on the TopSpeed 2 . :unsure: Mine sings with a 1440 B/C @3.21" and a good

O.S. motor of course. :D

Good Luck,

Mark Sholund
 
As soon as I get some in I will be trying them Mark.

The engine combo has worked well before and I need to get it back to where it was again. more testing if and when i find the time

Thanks

Dave
 
A long time ago a friend of mine had a "Torch" made by International Hobbies. Ran great and fast just would not stop bounching. Someone told him to start moving the engine back 1/4 inch at the time. Eventually he founf the "sweet spot". Many tunnel hulls are sensitive to how far back the prop is. Can make a big difference. As someone who builds boats, I can tell you that there is really no end to tweaking and making improvements.
 
Dave,

If you want a nice handling heat racer rather than a radar gun hero - Try an ABC 40x53 stock 2 blade on your MAC. Just sharpened and balanced B) It will do everything you want - I tested that exact same combination a while back. Next pick would be the 1440 with 3.2" and the prop deeper. It's faster but not as friendly. Personally, I only like 3 blade props for mono's. I know it was the prop to use on your Nemesis, but those boats act differently. Use a 0.290 Stinger in the NR21OB with the MAC and no water ;)

The 1440 needs to run a little deeper than other props or it tends to blow out of the water and will wash off speed - this is based from experience on MJ'S / Murph's TS2 only a few months ago - and that same boat won the NSW country champs with a perfect score as a result.

I saw the same thing again on Sunday just gone at Penrith - Stock OS on a lynx with a cupped 1440 - lowered prop by 1/8" and it gained a lot more speed and less bounce.

Note: A lot of tunnels bounce at slower speeds - nature of the beast unfortunately. I think where a lot of people go wrong is they try to run the motor too high which in turn can cause porpoising, and then try to fix it by adding weight to the nose (which can actually make it worse!) Of the 2 TS2's I've helped people with - I've used minimal amounts of lead in the nose.
 
TS2 Owners, Read That Stuff Above Again Real Good, Those Post's are Loaded,, go ahead
 
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Dave,

If you want a nice handling heat racer rather than a radar gun hero - Try an ABC 40x53 stock 2 blade on your MAC. Just sharpened and balanced B) It will do everything you want - I tested that exact same combination a while back. Next pick would be the 1440 with 3.2" and the prop deeper. It's faster but not as friendly. Personally, I only like 3 blade props for mono's. I know it was the prop to use on your Nemesis, but those boats act differently. Use a 0.290 Stinger in the NR21OB with the MAC and no water ;)

The 1440 needs to run a little deeper than other props or it tends to blow out of the water and will wash off speed - this is based from experience on MJ'S / Murph's TS2 only a few months ago - and that same boat won the NSW country champs with a perfect score as a result.

I saw the same thing again on Sunday just gone at Penrith - Stock OS on a lynx with a cupped 1440 - lowered prop by 1/8" and it gained a lot more speed and less bounce.

Note: A lot of tunnels bounce at slower speeds - nature of the beast unfortunately. I think where a lot of people go wrong is they try to run the motor too high which in turn can cause porpoising, and then try to fix it by adding weight to the nose (which can actually make it worse!) Of the 2 TS2's I've helped people with - I've used minimal amounts of lead in the nose.

Tim

Do you have a 40x53 lying around? the 1440 will be going deeper this weekend and the pipe will come in. I will have to put the 1440 i have on th prop guage and adjust it, the other 1440 i need is on Ians boat! already got the 290 and no water, it was mainly having too many boats to play with last weekend to do the ts2 properly. Im only taking one boat this weekend.

postie is on the eway to you again tim!

jerry you are right alll the answers are here! I tried to test 3 boats in one session! bad move! one at a time now,

Dave
 
You are right about that Dave, You get a LOT more accomplished when you only bring one boat... we used to take all the boats out for testing and ended up getting more confused than anything, now its one at a time ALL DAY.
 
BOY you guys know your STUFF !!! I have been fighting the "TS2 Bounce" for MONTHS and I finally did what you guys said and checked for the strightness (with a stright edge) on the bottom. Yes it curved up almost 1/8 inch at the back. I had another TR2 new in the box and checked it .........it was nice and flat :) I mounted everything on it and took it down to the lake today and boy did it handle GREAT ! That was my problem my old hull was one of the first productions, glad they got them strightened out. Runs great....... also took the head shim out today and had to run a lot richer (don't know if it was because of the head shim or the weather.... real humid today). Boat is really coming around. THANKS for this great forum ......it really helps us new guys, I have learned tons and still learning :)

Ralph
 
Tim

Do you have a 40x53 lying around?

Dave
Dave,

I don't but I know someone who does - I'll have a talk with him.

Tim.

BOY you guys know your STUFF !!! I have been fighting the "TS2 Bounce" for MONTHS and I finally did what you guys said and checked for the strightness (with a stright edge) on the bottom. Yes it curved up almost 1/8 inch at the back.

Ralph
Sounds like it's Bondo time! Glad you are now happy with your boat Ralph!
 
I think I need hull help before i go any further with my tuning :(

I took my engine and radio box and linkages out of my ts2 and had it sitting on the countertop and noticed when looking at it from the rear I had aprox. 1/16"-1/8" space between the countertop and the bottom of the left sponson.

When I pushed down on the left side to make the sponson touch the countertop,the front of the right sponson raised up.

I have been reading on how many sand the sponsons to make them flat.I am a little nervous do this as it's my first tunnel hull.

Is this something that could be corrected by sanding the bottom of the sponsons and if so

Would somene give me the idiot proof version of this process.

There is no warranty on this boat.

Thanks

Terry
 
That definetly will affect the boat's handling...

One thing you may want to be sure is that your countertop is completely straight... Usually using a glasstop is a more secure way of checking how straight the bottom is... If there's just a slight difference you may be able to get it straight with just sanding but if there is to much of a difference you may need to sand and fill with bondo... Let's wait for a more technical response...
 
I think I need hull help before i go any further with my tuning :(

I took my engine and radio box and linkages out of my ts2 and had it sitting on the countertop and noticed when looking at it from the rear I had aprox. 1/16"-1/8" space between the countertop and the bottom of the left sponson.

When I pushed down on the left side to make the sponson touch the countertop,the front of the right sponson raised up.

I have been reading on how many sand the sponsons to make them flat.I am a little nervous do this as it's my first tunnel hull.

Is this something that could be corrected by sanding the bottom of the sponsons and if so

Would somene give me the idiot proof version of this process.

There is no warranty on this boat.

Thanks

Terry
Hi Terry, "idiot proof version",, I wish it were that easy. There has been some info on this subject but very

little "in depth" typing has went on here of late. This type of fix is hard to gauge wether you doing the running surface any good or not if you don't have a subject thats in the ball park. And creating something

new down there with some bondo has the possibillity of gettin' really ugly, cause it's all guess work without

the knowledge of how its supposed to be in the first place.

With most tunnel hulls you usually have enough gel-coat on there to block-sand the sponson's into reasonable alignment. I don't have the TS2 but if memory serves, one of the sponsons (or both)

have a "spray rail" like feature on the outermost edge of the running surfaces. I think these are used

for "lift" and cornering help of some kind. These features can make the block sanding job difficult, so your

going to have to concentrate on the areas that the boat rides mostly right now to see if you can make the sides the same. The sponsons are angled as viewed from the rear, try not to change that angle while sanding.

Your best bet is to work with the gel-coat thickness you have to bring things close and fill any low spots, square-up the edges with bondo (body filler) and just run it the way it is. The hull had an experienced designer, but it is a $100 boat, made in China, and it was intended to get folks into model boating without

investing a large amount of money. If your interested in trying your skills at this kind of work, the most damage you can do is a $100 and it could be a good subject to learn a couple things.

Good Luck
 
Other options for getting a good or even excellent BUILD tunnel is the wof design.

That way you can make the sponsons already as they should be before getting the last layer of wood on it.

Ronald.
 
Get with AquaCraft and tell them your problem, they MAY replace your boat. Is it an early model that came with the GP fuel tank, they had a lots of defects and developed cracks and bottoms not flat. AquaCraft seems to stand behind there products.
 
Ralphie,

I bought it as a scratch and dent as carton damage only but there was a crack in the gelcoat in the bottom where the inside of the sponson meets the bottom of the tunnel floor but was easily fixed with some thin ca.

The one i received was yellow and came with the white plastic fuel tank with 250 or 260 cc on the side and the tubing appears to be aluminum.I did not use this tank and opted for a 8 oz sullivan instead..

I "think" i can fix the bottom up by sanding the Gel coat if I can get my mind around the procedure.

My boat boat only porpoises at slow speeds and not WOT but it bounces around the corners.

I am tempted to experiment with weight in the canopy since at present I have only 1.5 oz in the forward section on the slotted area in the bottom of the hull.

That seem a little light compared to most of the others I have read.

Terry
 
A little "hint" Terry, most tunnel hulls have an area that is "flat", starting from the rear of the

sponsons, going forward to at least 7 inches to 9 inches. This area on some hulls will look

(as viewed from the side) as if it is "rising up" as it goes to the rear. This is a tough one, cause

it don't seem right in your head,, the Lynx hull is a prime example of this. Thats why when you

check the "trueness" of these hulls your pushing down on the back of the hull to contact the rear

section on a flat surface. Your 7 to 9 inch flat sections will be evident when you do this,, this will

be very a slight angle (nose up) of the overall side view of the boat.

I think this very thing may be what most guy's that come on here are talking about, that

"it rises up 1/8th to a 1/4" at the rear of the boat".

They must be trying to keep the boat level

on a flat surface,,,where pushing the rear down to contact the surface is the correct way

to do it.
 
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When placed on a flat surface and viewed from the rear there is a aprox. 1/8"of a space between the flat surface and the bottom of the sponsons.

It looks like the boat is resting "flat" on a section of the sponsons.

It would be the middle portion of the sponsons(or in other words the portion between the slot in the sponson that is closest to the transom and the next one closest to the front of the hull)I think these are called brakes . B)

When I push down slightly on the rear at the transom there is a slight rocking motion to the rear as the front of both sponsons raise.

There does not seem to be any major warpage or anyting out of line that can be detected by the naked eye anyway.

I am in the process of finding out first where the CG should be and the best way to balance the boat.

some say more weight just ahead of the cg some say all in the nose some in the sponsons sone say in the canopy. :unsure:

Do you think my issues could be the 215 prop and lack of weight/incorrect balancing.

Thanks

terry
 
I am in the process of finding out first where the CG should be and the best way to balance the boat.

some say more weight just ahead of the cg some say all in the nose some in the sponsons sone say in the canopy. :unsure:

Do you think my issues could be the 215 prop and lack of weight/incorrect balancing.

Thanks

terry
Yes, Yes, and Yes. All or any of those could cause problems. Its not an exact science when finding problems with tunnel boats.

First, get the boat ready to run without fuel. I dont know what the TopSpeed 2 insturctions say, but a tunnel

is a tunnel as far as balance is concerned (some people call this "CG" or Center of Gravity, this is NOT what the balance actually is, but its what most people refer to when talking balance) Every tunnel I have and have had, balance between 32-33% distance from the rear (trailing edge) of the sponsons. When you get the balance point achieved, either by adding weight, moving your radio, battery components around or what ever. LEAVE IT ALONE. Unless you change the weight of the boat by adding or removing something, you should never have to add/remove lead. If you do this to correct a problem, it is a bandaid for something else. TRUST ME.

Second, If the rear 1/3 (roughly) of the sponsons dont lay perfectly flat along the entire length ("this is called the ride pad") YOU ARE SPINNING YOUR WHEELS, pissin in the wind and any other cliche you can think of. You will chase your tail forever trying to correct problems if the sponsons bottoms are not true. This should be the first thing done in getting a boat set-up properly. Fiberglass, when removed from molds, after the they are removed from molds, in the sunlight (heat), in the cold ect, ect. It warps, and moves all over the place if. This can be greatly reduced is the framework of the boat is properly done before the glass is laid, and Im not saying that the TS 2 isnt done well, but I can safely say I have seen better. This alone is the main reason I prefer to build my own boats out of wood..... Fiberglass hulls such as Carl Van Houtens Lynx's are a prime example of properly laid up glass. They have some of the straightest bottoms I have ever seen, wood or fiberglass. Consitency is the key, and that is hard to acheive when TS 2's are being mass produced in god knows what country. Dont fret, you can fix this, it will take time a patience. Just make the bottom, rear section of the pads flat with a flat sanding block. dont worry about the gell coat, dont worry about whatever, just get it flat. you should be able to put a little pressure on the back of the boat and the rear 1/3 should sit perfectly flat along the bottom corner.

After you get the bottom done, its time for the water. Get your final adjustments by adjusting motor height and tilt. These should be done in VERY fine increments. Try different props, they all do different things, even the same props(say two Prather 215's) can handle completely differently. there are alot of variables in setting up a race boat, you will soon find this out if you havent already. The main thing is DO EACH ADJUSTMENT ONE AT A TIME. TAKE A NOTEBOOK TO THE POND, write down everything you do and everything that you observe. write down what prop you have, what the height is, what the angle is, you can get as plain or fancy as you want. when you make a change on the boat, it should only take a lap or two to find out if or what the change did, there is no reason to run the whole tank empty. bring it in, document it, and make another change. The more you run the boat, the more familiar you will become with what changes do what, this will ONLY come with time on the water. Its called experience, you either have it, or you get it. If you are just trying to play at the pond with your R/C boat, this may seem (and may be) an little over kill, but if it works for racers, itll work for you.

Get the bottom flat, get it balanced like I mentioned above, and THEN tell us what it does. Itll be easier once those variables are secured.

Thanks, James
 
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James

thanks for that great explaination

Please forgive my ignorance i would really like to conquer this thing.

I already have the hull stripped at this point so i brought it in the house from the garage and,

If I put the bare hull on my table which is a very large peice of hardwood this what i see when i push down on the rear and around the transom area.The Sponsons will not touch the table without a lot of force or pressure.

1)Do I sand the rear 1/3 portion of each sponson with say a 10" block and some 220 sand paper(taking only a few strokes at a time) which should bring the high spots down to the same level as the low spots?

2)Do i sand the very bottom of the sponson that has the sharp edge or where it hits the table, flat with the block, taking off enuogh of the sharpness and edge so both side will lay flat with only a little pressure??

Another way to ask might be: Am I looking to have the same affect with my sandpaper as if i had it layed on the table and held light pressure on the rear of the boat and moved it back and forth, taking the high spots off.

I am just not sure what the profile of the bottom should look like once i am done <_<

Sorry i do not know what the proper name for the sponson where it hits the table oe water

Terry
 

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