The 25th Indy Masters

[OneBadRR22]

Here is your chance to be a part of the 25th Indy Masters Race. This year, Indianapolis Indiana will host The Indy Masters with a .18 RTR event in its schedule. Enter Early as this event is being noticed all over the U.S. as the event to attend!

IMBC_INDY_MASTERS_2007.pdf

 

[Buckshot]

Quote from entry form-

"92 DB rule will not be enforced, you MUST use muffling device"

?????????????? :blink: :blink:

I hope that's a type-o.

-Buck-

 

[Bruce Jacobs]

Quote from entry form-
"92 DB rule will not be enforced, you MUST use muffling device"

?????????????? :blink: :blink:

I hope that's a type-o.

-Buck-

It's no type-O, I will not allow the new noise rule to stop people who want to race from coming, The rule as it is written is impossible to enforce with the meter we have available and the changing pond conditions. The meter has stated in the instructions that it has a plus or minus 2 DB tolerance, and that it is for indoor use. NOONE uses the tolerance in their readings. So I as the CD will require the use of mufferling devices, and or pipes that have mufflers built in to be in place on all boats. We will have at least 5 DB meters set up so people can see what noise levels are being generated at differant locations. We/I are supporting the need to make our boats quieter, but much more research and testing need to be done to make the 92 DB rule fair to all and take into account all the factors that affect the readings. The 95 DB was good and we made great strides to get boats to or under that level, we just needed more time to get to the 92 DB level. We will get there, but the current board seems heck bent on destroying our organization rather than admit the rule was implemented far to soon. So That is why the Indy club and many others have choosen to waive that rule. So I say we give the current president and board a 1 lap penalty for being over on this rule.

 

[Mark McCray]

Now theres a CD with some %^(() ^&all's, This sounds like a race that I just may travel to race at.

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

Is this going to be a dist. 14 points race?

 

[Bruce Jacobs]

Is this going to be a dist. 14 points race?

Yes, and it is the Governors cup race.

 

[Don Ferrette]

The 95 DB was good and we made great strides to get boats to or under that level, we just needed more time to get to the 92 DB level.

So let me ask you something, how did you determine "great strides" were made in getting under 95dB? To know this & make this kind of statement you must have surely measured the sound output right? If so why was the meter use ok then but now all of a sudden it's not? Let's keep it real here ................. :blink:

 

[Bruce Jacobs]

It's as real as it gets. I have had a DB meter since the time Impba decided to impose the limit. There were measurements made that year at each of the 15 races we were at racing, of which I saw you at none. We were well under at all ponds with the rules in place, 95 DB at 50 feet. Then all the sudden Mr. Zuber feels that 25 feet is where we should be measuring from and the new rule of 92 at 25 is thrown out there. Namba uses 50 at 92, why does Impba have to be different again? We have tested at our pond with these new rules and were ok, but at jackson with different suroundings the levels were different, and the CD choose to use common sense and use the meter properly and no-one was DQed. We continued to test at different ponds with different pipes and mufflers and found a system that worked. A week before the 06 internats we test at the Evansville pond and are below the limit. Then at the same pond 1 week later at the Internats with the same setup, we are over. So Mr. World racer I must answer every post weather I know anything or not, I and we have done the background work to know the rule as it is written has issues and the meter that was selected works, but it has a + or - 2 DB tolerance that is not taken into account, it also says for indoor use and we use it outdoors. So until the board and president look at all the variables that have major affects on the readings, we are all being cheated. We build and race boats for a hobby, and are very concerned about the noise issue and have spent a butt load of money on pipes and mufflers to find something that works. I/we will not stand by and let a president and board of people who have not done the background legwork on this rule ruin my and many others hobby of choice without doing all I and we can to show and prove the rule has bugs that need ironing out before we lose allot of good racing members. So maybe you should stick to building scale boats and let those of us that race at many different sites keep getting the info we need to make this rule work fairly.

 

[Don Ferrette]

It's as real as it gets. I have had a DB meter since the time Impba decided to impose the limit..... <snip>

Well Bruce 'ol boy you seem to be forgetting one thing between your smart ass comments, the MEMBERSHIP voted this current rule in, NOT Bill Zuber or the board so for starters stop blaming the board, they are working with what got voted in by membership majority. Second, you still didn't answer the question- why was it ok when the rule was 95 to go by the meter but now that the rule is tighter it's not? I'll tell you why, because 95dB was EASY. Now that it gets tighter it's WHOA EVERYBODY THESE METERS DON'T WORK!!! Well I'll tell you something, I too have been testing with dB meters even BEFORE the first dB limit was imposed so don't go sounding off like you & your gang are the only one who's done any in depth study of this. I was only able to attend 17 races last season- 10 club races, 5 district races, the ScaleMasters & Atlanta & I believe you were at one. Yes I agree there are some things we need to look at & the way we are measuring but rather than jumping up on one's soapbox proclaiming the sky is falling I'm working on trying to fix this. Why don't you try to be part of the solution instead of trying to drive a wedge in only to further fragment a bad situation?? If you've got honest legitimate input based on this extensive testing you say you've done I'd love to hear it, send me a p/m & we'll go from there, it will not fall on deaf ears. And BTW- when was the last time you had your dB meter calibrated? You do know that you can have them done for maximum accuracy in a given range like 80-100dB where it matters most as in our case right? Also that +/- 2dB is over the entire range & if you have the meter calibrated for that tighter range the accuracy increases greatly. The meter I use just got calibrated & checked to within a tenth of a dB in the 80-100 range. Granted it's not the Radio Shack meter but it's not some $500 meter either. And as for the "indoor use" thing they have to say that because the R/S unit is not weatherproof. Like I said I'm currently working a draft & would welcome some constructive input if you've got any without the childish belittling you've chosen to do here. Next step is up to you ........

 

[Bruce Jacobs]

Well Don, I'm not your boy, but am old. But we have never blamed the meter. It was and is the best available for what most would want to spend. Yes I have had my meter calibrated and it will hold that cal for about 1 day. It's a $50.00 meter and should be treated that way. We expect it to be dead on at 92 DB and it can be, but not for long. The + or - 2 is at the highend of the range per the instructions and even if calibrated in the 90-100 ranges, it is not good enough to be exact. All I have said to Bill, and Brian And John is to allow the meter to be used within it tolerances and that would solve 90% of the problem with some of us being over. But when some people operating the meter can't get to the drivers stand fast enough to tell the CD that so and so was over by 1, it really bugs alot of racers. The main problem is the surroundings at different ponds and the effect it has on the readings and no-one will seem to listen and look at what can be done to make this fair for all. If I could buy a pipe that made my boat 80 DB and still run It would be on in an instant. But there are no magic mufflers out there and yes 95 was fairly easy and 92 is not that hard even at the closer distance, it's the area factors that cause the inconsistances. I am not trying to do anything but get the board to realize we the same members that voted them into office also voted on an issue that none of us had a clue as to what would be required to enforce it, make it fair to all, and to find yet another person to do something at a race where help is already non existant. Until the board decides maybe we need to either go back to 95 and do more testing at all the races to find the sweet spot that a good reading can be obtained, we in my "gang" will continue to do what we can to be quite on the pond, but until maybe you or someone else on the board is found to be to loud you will continue to blame the few who seem to be over at certain ponds. And as for drafts on possible fixes, at least that shows you know there are issues, which is the first step to a fix, but others have submitted proposals and were flat denied them to be heard. So maybe if I piss you off with my childish belittling, it may get the board to listen to the fact this rule needs some more thought.

 

[Don Ferrette]

.... and no-one will seem to listen and look at what can be done to make this fair for all.

Bruce I am listening so please do not lump me into the no one's listening group. I am working my butt off on trying to come up with some options for us all that we can work with, what happens after that is out of my hands but I'm not going to sit & turn a blind eye to this either. I just took over the district 12 director position Jan. 1st & am moving as fast as I am able. Again, now that the stones aren't being thrown I'd welcome any input or ideas from you, p/m me for my direct e-mail if you are interested in that. BTW- 'ol boy is merely a figure of speech, neither implying you're my boy or old either.

 

[Chris Wood]

.... and no-one will seem to listen and look at what can be done to make this fair for all.

Bruce I am listening so please do not lump me into the no one's listening group. I am working my butt off on trying to come up with some options for us all that we can work with, what happens after that is out of my hands but I'm not going to sit & turn a blind eye to this either. I just took over the district 12 director position Jan. 1st & am moving as fast as I am able. Again, now that the stones aren't being thrown I'd welcome any input or ideas from you, p/m me for my direct e-mail if you are interested in that. BTW- 'ol boy is merely a figure of speech, neither implying you're my boy or old either.

Don,

If you are looking for suggestions here is one.. Take the meter, set it up.. Have a number for db's for each class.

lets say 93 for f-hydro

if everyone is running between 93 and 95 call it good.. if one ya ho is running 97 or so pull them aside and have them take a look at there set up.. and try to quite it down.. Don't force them to go home after they spent all that time driving to get where ever it maybe and so on.. I think this dq thing is BAD BAD BAD for the members and the sport.. But that is just me.

if this happens again, then tell them. You are now aware of the rule, you have been warned.. Make the attempt before you come back.. At least that way they have some time to try and fix it instead of sending them home and they may never come back.. If they come back with the same set up or same reading then send them packing. I can say this.. I am going to the nat's this year again.. I WILL make sure my stuff comply's before i leave.. If i get there and it is over with the same set up as at home and it it to loud.. The meter WILL GO IN THE LAKE. That is a PROMISE.

Just a thought.

chris

 

[Don Ferrette]

I think this dq thing is BAD BAD BAD for the members and the sport.. But that is just me.

It's not just you, I am deep into something so stand by. Like I said folks I AM LISTENING! B)

 

[Roxyflash]

The meter will go in the lake.I like it as it will fix the problem.LOL Keep up the great work Chris!

 

[Stuart Barr]

Several memebers are looking to the respones of IMPBA on the noise issue. Some of the current resoultions does not account for the variables of the meters. I hope that a rule can be adminsitered with this in mind.

Stu Barr

 

[steve wood]

BRUCE, VERY WELL SAID!

 

[Buckshot]

Quote from entry form-
"92 DB rule will not be enforced, you MUST use muffling device"

?????????????? :blink: :blink:

I hope that's a type-o.

-Buck-

It's no type-O, I will not allow the new noise rule to stop people who want to race from coming, The rule as it is written is impossible to enforce with the meter we have available and the changing pond conditions. The meter has stated in the instructions that it has a plus or minus 2 DB tolerance, and that it is for indoor use. NOONE uses the tolerance in their readings. So I as the CD will require the use of mufferling devices, and or pipes that have mufflers built in to be in place on all boats. We will have at least 5 DB meters set up so people can see what noise levels are being generated at differant locations. We/I are supporting the need to make our boats quieter, but much more research and testing need to be done to make the 92 DB rule fair to all and take into account all the factors that affect the readings. The 95 DB was good and we made great strides to get boats to or under that level, we just needed more time to get to the 92 DB level. We will get there, but the current board seems heck bent on destroying our organization rather than admit the rule was implemented far to soon. So That is why the Indy club and many others have choosen to waive that rule. So I say we give the current president and board a 1 lap penalty for being over on this rule.

Well it's still bull that someone is trying to me I can't run my boat because it dosen't have a "muffling device". If I can be at or below the specified 92 db without a "muffling device" than why should I have to run with one? Might as well just go spec racing.

-Buck-

 

[Bruce Jacobs]

Let's not blow this out of proportion, the tuned pipe with stinger will comply as a muffling device as long as it is within the DB limits. Thr noise rule is being discussed now finally and by the time my race comes up I'm sure the issue will have been adjusted if not we will work with what we have and just race our boats. I just didn't want guys showing up with plain nitro pipes or whatever and being way to loud.

 

[OneBadRR22]

Now, who is coming to the D&^N race?

 

[Wally Marsh]

Kudos to Bruce, Stu, and other members of the Indy club for keeping the legacy alive for the 25th year. I will try my hardest to make this race, one of the best in the mid-west. I wonder if we can get Chris in the water with the meter :lol:

the Wallster