Spark Ignition Nitro Engine

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Over 2000 views in one week! Must be a little interest in this subject?
Until you posted at 1am this thread sat idle for almost 5 days. Kinda like a car wreck, you don't want to be involved but you're gonna look when you see one.
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Don, There are many threads here on I/W that sit idle for days and weeks...that does not mean the subjects are not stirring in people's minds. You may have gotten some e-mails about what a bad idea and how dangerous it might be. But likewise, I have gotten several emails discussing the positive possibilities.
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Don,

Next thing you know, they're gonna want a class for prope, cause you know there are those out there using it. Yeah, you know, cause it's gonna happen whether you like it or not.
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HEY! I've got an idea! Can we create a class for inline twins? Can We?

It's like this: Go ahead and build it if you really want to risk it. Nobody can tell you that you cant. Just leave your membership card at home and test it at some backwoods pond and don't disrespect your sanctioning body by forcing the liability on the rest of us.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros
 
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You know what's funny in all if this? The set ups we run and the speeds we currently run have all been achieved because people have done things said to be too dangerous and impossible!!!

As far as making us all absorb the liability. This hobby is filled with people running boats/classes they have no business running!!!!

I get it. People don't like change. But NEVER FORGET, we didn't start where we are today!!!!!!
 
It is going to happen no mater if you like it or not.
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Kinda like when you go to the big house.
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. Not sure who your referring to, but just so you know I'm glad several more people want to test this. Like you said in the f hydro thread, why build it if you can't race it though. But, it has been tried before, and I'm sure it can work, I'm glad some have the time to try it. I question if it would help nitro attendance, but get it working good and then present it in the future!
 
Don,

Next thing you know, they're gonna want a class for prope, cause you know there are those out there using it. Yeah, you know, cause it's gonna happen whether you like it or not.
default_unsure.png
default_wacko.png
default_blink.png
default_rolleyes.gif


HEY! I've got an idea! Can we create a class for inline twins? Can We?

It's like this: Go ahead and build it if you really want to risk it. Nobody can tell you that you cant. Just leave your membership card at home and test it at some backwoods pond and don't disrespect your sanctioning body by forcing the liability on the rest of us.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros
What guys are discussing here was IMPBA legal for over 50 years. Spark ignition is now illegal in NAMBA and IMPBA simply because a group of F Hydro racers were looking for a way to exclude Gas hydros & Cats.

I highly suspect that in any discussion concerning to "not allow spark ignition in classes A thru F" that there was never reference or reason of "because someone might put Methanol and Nitro in their spark engine and that would be a safety concern".
 
Jeff it was a general statement to any that would listen.

Have my old SG sitting in the corner will get a set up in it this year and do some testing.
 
Over 2000 views in one week! Must be a little interest in this subject?
Until you posted at 1am this thread sat idle for almost 5 days. Kinda like a car wreck, you don't want to be involved but you're gonna look when you see one.
default_rolleyes.gif
Don, There are many threads here on I/W that sit idle for days and weeks...that does not mean the subjects are not stirring in people's minds. You may have gotten some e-mails about what a bad idea and how dangerous it might be. But likewise, I have gotten several emails discussing the positive possibilities.
default_smile.png
Well I'm glad you've gotten "positive e-mails" about "positive possibilities" but that doesn't change the inherent risks. I solicited much advice from people whom I would consider experts in the field of spark ignition in nitro applications and they all gave the same overall recommendation- not worth the risk to personal safety. My most recent consultation was with the AMA, perhaps you've heard of them, that group of flyers that have been around a little while. Well it isn't legal there either because of how unsafe it is and that's by far the biggest group of guys and gals in the r/c world running everything from the tiniest to the largest of engines. You and Dave can do what you want, as before please be careful and do not utilize any pond insured by the IMPBA.
 
Don,

Next thing you know, they're gonna want a class for prope, cause you know there are those out there using it. Yeah, you know, cause it's gonna happen whether you like it or not.
default_unsure.png
default_wacko.png
default_blink.png
default_rolleyes.gif


HEY! I've got an idea! Can we create a class for inline twins? Can We?

It's like this: Go ahead and build it if you really want to risk it. Nobody can tell you that you cant. Just leave your membership card at home and test it at some backwoods pond and don't disrespect your sanctioning body by forcing the liability on the rest of us.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros
What guys are discussing here was IMPBA legal for over 50 years. Spark ignition is now illegal in NAMBA and IMPBA simply because a group of F Hydro racers were looking for a way to exclude Gas hydros & Cats.

I highly suspect that in any discussion concerning to "not allow spark ignition in classes A thru F" that there was never reference or reason of "because someone might put Methanol and Nitro in their spark engine and that would be a safety concern".
See my previous answer. Regardless of what you "think" or "suspect" my opinions have been formed by asking those who have far more experience with spark ignition nitro than I do, or you do for that matter. It is what it is, sorry if you don't like it.
 
"International Waters - Center of R/C Boating on the Web."

A guy from Australia starts a thread about running Nitro and Spark Ignition. Guys from all over, get invovled in the discussion.

Someone chimes in and says It's not legal to do in IMPBA.

Ok, thank you, we get it!

Now that we have gotten that out of the way...

Back to the dicussion about Spark and Nitro!
 
Hummmmmmmmmm, spark plug ignition and nitro? I think that there are some people called Drag racers that have been doing something along the lines of this for decades now. They've got classes called Top Fuel and Funny Car if I remember correctly.
 
Hummmmmmmmmm, spark plug ignition and nitro? I think that there are some people called Drag racers that have been doing something along the lines of this for decades now. They've got classes called Top Fuel and Funny Car if I remember correctly.
Yes, I hung out in the pits with those guys in the Late 60's. I refilled the water jugs to fill the steel block engines used in those days. I was there wiping down tires at the starting line, just as they do today.... I witnessed some of the first 200 mph passes...

I helped my father build his A/Fuel Dragster and the engine that went in it. Hilbourne Injectors, Hayes Slider clutch and 70% Nitromethane...fired by 8 Magneto driven Spark plugs! Fun stuff!
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"International Waters - Center of R/C Boating on the Web."

A guy from Australia starts a thread about running Nitro and Spark Ignition. Guys from all over, get invovled in the discussion.

Someone chimes in and says It's not legal to do in IMPBA.

Ok, thank you, we get it!

Now that we have gotten that out of the way...

Back to the dicussion about Spark and Nitro!
What guys are discussing here was IMPBA legal for over 50 years. Spark ignition is now illegal in NAMBA and IMPBA simply because a group of F Hydro racers were looking for a way to exclude Gas hydros & Cats. I highly suspect that in any discussion concerning to "not allow spark ignition in classes A thru F" that there was never reference or reason of "because someone might put Methanol and Nitro in their spark engine and that would be a safety concern".

LMAO!! So it's okay that you went there with the above post but a response to it isn't. What you fail to realize more gas guys voted FOR the rule than nitro guys did but I'm sure you don't want or care to know why. Whatever Andy, this isn't worth any further keystrokes so you go right ahead and believe your conspiracy against gas or whatever................
 
Old .29 running on Spark and Nitro. Read David Crocker's explaination in the comments list.

 
I am interested to know the techincal reason behind the idea that spark ignition with nitro/methanol is dangerous. I re-read the thread, but I don't see the reason given. It makes no technical sense to me that a spark plug is more dangerous than a glow plug. Is the fear that nitromethane is somehow going to detonate like a high explosive? That is only possible under extreme adiabatic compression, and then only when you have the pure material. Nitro has to be completey confined with no vapor head space and then you would more than a blasting cap to set it off. Here is what the manufacturer lists as the 3 conditions under which you can detonate nitromethane. Keep in mind they are talking about the pure material, not a mixture with methanol and oil.

One condition is a very severe shock, in excess of that provided by a number eight blasting cap.

Second is severe and very rapid compression under adiabatic conditions.

Third is heating nitromethane under confinement to near its critical temperature.
 
Guys.....In the early days of Snowmobile Racing, everyone ran "fuel" (methanol and nitro) 1960's into mid 1970's, when it was eventually banned, and everyone switched to gasoline. All of the engines we saw at that time were "behind the flywheel" magnetos, No battery involved. The engines ranged from single cylinder around 295 cc all the way up to a triple cylinder, which I believe was 800 cc. It took some work, but they ran very well, AND at that time they were all air-cooled. I, myself ran stock and fuel outboard hydroplanes in APBA, and since there were no electronic ignitions at the time, we ran ford 427 racing points and condenser operated by a cam on the top of the crankshaft. Very crude by today's standards, but it worked. Now, here's the icing on the cake......A/C spark plug used to sponsor us, and they made several spark plugs specifically for outboard racing engines. They are known as (R-Gap) or retracted gap plugs. If you held up one of them so that you're looking straight at the center electrode/

threaded end, you could see an electrode that came out sideways down"inside" the plug, and they were made FOR fuel and ignitiom systems that barely put out 15,000-18,000 volts. That being said, Electronic Ignition Systems are easily in the 30,000- 45,000 volt range, and will work on ringed engines very nicely. I forgot to mention, most of us ran "fixed" or locked ignition at the time and also rope started the engines. We used an aluminum "rope-pulley" flywheel, and only took about 3/4 of a turn of rope on the flywheel.......Safety issue! With fixed ignition that is fairly well advanced, the engines would sometimes kick back, and could easily break your arm OR dis-locate your shoulder. Somebody has spooked you guys about the safety of doing what this discussion is based on. Gasoline under any condition is way more dangerous than nitro-methanol fuels, first of all the flash point on gasoline scares me. Pour some gas on the ground, and throw a lit match on it, then do the same thing with the same amount of say 50% model boat fuel, and you be the judge! I used to store a 55 gallon drum of methanol in my basement, and never worried about it at all NEVER would I do that with gas! Here's something else i almost forgot about: On cold o damp/rainy days, we had trouble getting the methanol to ignite, so we used to prime the engines with a shot of gasoline directly in the intake.....actually another proof of the volatility of gasoline versus methanol...I surely hope that you will pursue this, because Hobby king is showing gas model aircraft engines all the way down to .50 size with electronic ign. systems (hall effect) sensors, etc. I hope I have contributed something to this discussion...
 
We've run a lot of nitro and gasoline engines on a variety of fuels with both glow and spark ignitions. We have not tried glow ignition with gasoline, but that testing was done a long time ago by Sir Harry Ricardo to investigate preignition. The only time I've used my fire extinguisher was with a gasoline fueled boat running spark ignition. Methanol based fuels are a lot safer reguardless of how you ignite the fuel. The only reason the nitro guys don't want to run with spark ignition engines that I can see is that they would need to learn some new things.

Lohring Miller
 
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