rough water rigger?

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GiantScale

Active Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Messages
35
Im designing a rigger to replace my wrecked one. Im now addicted to the speed of riggers so my interest for my cat & mono is low.

Problem is... The area I run on half the time has 2"- 3" rollers and my last 44" rigger did the sponson dance at high speed.

What design characteristics make a rigger better for rough water? Has anyone ever tried V shaped sponson bottoms? Or just more side angle?

Thanks!

Mike
 
I see you are a member of the Rigger Dance Club ;D

To reduce the dance, reduce the wetted area of the front sponson. Also increasing the anti-trip agle on the front spoons. This will provide less lift and less chance that the spoon will be pulled under in heavy chop.

The only down side is that the boat will run wett when the water is calm.

Rear spoons also help in rough water because they stabilize the height of the prop.

Here are some pics of "rough-water" mods to a rigger

IM000977a.JPG
 
Mike, these are the ideas that I had to reduce the "Rigger Dance". I've added a new spin and I'm calling it the BBY Spoon cut. This allows you to go with a wider spoon but the rear is not 90 deg to the inside, instead it angles in -effectively reducing the wetted area and reducing lift.

Ntsr-Spoon1.jpg
 
Thanks Eric.

The drawings have me baffled. The profile should be accurate if you were to fold the drawing between the plan view & profle... I dont see it. Do your sponsons riding surface change side angle as you travel tip to rear? Could you send me a sponson close up pic from front & back water surface view?

This is a gas rigger I hope will be under 11 lbs. But I was close to running 70's. Bigger props spinning slower. The sponsons were 3 1/4" wide! Tried 3 & 5 degree flat top sponsons. 5 degree had more dance.

What is anti-trip angle?

Spoon = sponson?

Thanks

Mike

View attachment 144
 
I noticed skinny spoons and really WIDE stance. I figure the wider the stance the harder it is for the boat to do the dance because for one spoon to rise the other would have to be "under water".

Was it me or was the AOA on some of those .21 riggers from Japan quite high.
 
The cg's are also way back ??? Along with the turn fin. Seems like to much weight on the rear..

Mike
 
They do look that way, but did you notice the kind of water they run them in? talk about rough water :eek: !!!

I would think that they don't run them as fast as calmer water designs, & with the CG being further back, they would be able to hop over the waves better? :- just a guess though
 
well TOO far back is HORRIBLE for waves......or at least that was true with my OB rigger, which had an extremely far back CG. it would hit the wave and the whole boat would go up except the very back, and then the wind would make it "do tha dance".

Joe
 
I agree with Laxmasta..

""it would hit the wave and the whole boat would go up except the very back, and then the wind would make it "do tha dance". ""

Thats what Mine did! I think more AOA on the tops of the sponsons would help tame the dance also. Looks like the hammer design has that.. But what angle?

I feel the cg should be within 10% of the after plane. (sponsons to prop or rear sponsons) Which is close!

Keeps your fin close to the sponson also for less stand off flex.

Mike
 
I am curious about the Japanese designs as well, looking at one the engine was in the middle of the boat! They are large and fairly lightly constructed which means they cant be that stiff. Considering many of them run without rear sponsons it makes me wonder how they can work. I noted Hammer's most recent design, the 12 boat, had the engine pretty much over the trailing edge of the front sponsons, and also running rear sponsons, so this is quite a departure from the typical Japanese designs.

The CG of some quite conventional design is further back than 10% tho. My 45 SG was 20-24% depending on whether you measure afterplane to the rear sponsons or the prop. My old Zenoah powered Cobra was about 18% from memory, and that ran quite well in the rough.

It is my belief that CG is not as important a variable on a rigger as it is on a mono or tunnel. On a rigger the amount of lift generated by the hull can be controlled independantly of the CG placement, but in a mono as you move the CG back the aero lift from the hull has less weigh to balance it and the whole hull can run a higher angle of attack until it blows off the water! By playing with the front and rear sponson angles and heights, strut height and angles, and also prop lifting characteristics you can change how a rigger runs in terms of how flighty and balanced it is. So if a boat is too flighty at the front, try adding boom shims to the rear boom or removing them from the front boom.

Personally I dont think the sponson top angle is that important compared to the riding surface angle. SG's are the fastest in the world and run flat tops....

Ian.
 
Mike,

I agree with you about a design for what we consider rough water. (2" to 3" waves). The kind of water that they run those riggers in, looks to be 2' to 3' rollers. Those can be big for a full size boat. Like I said earlier, they would go slower, but with there skinny front sponsons, they would be less prone to affects of the wind when coming off a wave. & with the CG further back, the front would be lighter to rid over the wave as opposed to punching through it. Again this is just speculation.
 
You may be right, but i have seen pictures on that site of there riggers running in those kind of conditions. I will try to find it again. of course, i could have been seeing things :p
 
Wade! goodgodamighty! after watching this video, i think all our questions about CG and hull design, and sponson spacing on japanese riggers may be answered! it might take a couple of minutes to download if your dial-up, but it's neat to see...

amazing riggerdance video

:eek: this one is even more incredible, but it's a larger file. keep in mind that this is a .21 size outrigger haulin butt in what looks to be saltwater offshore.... no kiddin!

another
 
Wow! :eek: That is impressive! :eek: The full size chase boat was really slamming thru the waves too, yet the little rigger kept going!! :D

So I guess that geometry does work....

Nitrocrazed racing: Almost makes me sea-sick!
 
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